Wifi mesh systems

garo

Got the Huawei and tested it today. Haven't done a proper test yet - i.e. left the Virgin Wifi on and both boxes are next to each other so can interfere. And have the powerline connected to an extension cord. But quick take is that a single Huawei improves connectivity across the house. The second one actually reduces bandwidth.

I have half a mind to send it back and just get a single powerful router to put in front of the Virgin Media Hub and put the hub in bridge mode. My house isn't laid out weirdly and the single Huawei is able to reach all parts of the house. So why spend money on a dual-band mesh when I can just get a more powerful router?

Gooey Looey

garo wrote: »

Got the Huawei and tested it today. Haven't done a proper test yet - i.e. left the Virgin Wifi on and both boxes are next to each other so can interfere. And have the powerline connected to an extension cord. But quick take is that a single Huawei improves connectivity across the house. The second one actually reduces bandwidth.

I have half a mind to send it back and just get a single powerful router to put in front of the Virgin Media Hub and put the hub in bridge mode. My house isn't laid out weirdly and the single Huawei is able to reach all parts of the house. So why spend money on a dual-band mesh when I can just get a more powerful router?

Turn off powerline and just do wireless mesh and test again. Powerline adapters are ok with 2, add a third they become very slow

garo

Thanks. Tried that and did a proper test isolating every variable.

Slightly better now maxing at 56Mbps using wifi mesh only and PLC turned off. Wired via old Zyxel powerline is giving me ~30 with 3 adapters. And Huawei powerline with 2 units (1 base and 1 satellite) is giving me ~25. Maybe my electrical circuits in the house are rubbish. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Still I don't want to keep the Huawei for such a minor improvement in speeds as the 2.4GHz channel in the attic gives me ~22. And a single Huawei next to the Virgin router was giving me ~50 which makes me think something like netgear Nighthawk is likely to give me a lot more.

bk

garo wrote: »

I have half a mind to send it back and just get a single powerful router to put in front of the Virgin Media Hub and put the hub in bridge mode. My house isn't laid out weirdly and the single Huawei is able to reach all parts of the house. So why spend money on a dual-band mesh when I can just get a more powerful router?

That is what I do, a single good high quality router, well positioned in center of home and high up on top of a bookshelf.

Though I should point out I live in an apartment, so not a large space, though materials in the wall do impact reception (terrible mobile connectivity here).

I'd always recommend this as the first starting point. A good quality router are SO much better then the ISP supplied junk, they can be a great upgrade, given you far better speed, reception and reliability.

I suspect doing this would fix most peoples wifi issue and not need a wifi system.

I'd only recommend a wifi system, if you try this and it doesn't work. If you still have deadspots around your home, etc.

If you don't have deadspots etc. Then a single wifi router will usually give you much better performance in a variety of ways and less issues with hand over, etc.

Perhaps worth looking into wifi routers that you can later add mesh too if you find it isn't good enough.

JimmyVik

New Mesh lightbulbs for £15 each coming out in August from broadlink.
Lightbulb is a smart bulb and a mesh wifi point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzhLFpG71Rc

Clareman

I always find it amusing that people complain about the wifi in their house and when you go looking for their router it's in a cabinet/behind a TV/by the front door. I called to a friend of a friends house as they were complaining about the WiFi being crap on their Vodafone, I went to my default mode of "the free router you got isn't great you should think of getting a proper 1" but called out to have a look, the router was on the hall table behind a cast iron piece of "art", I moved the piece of "art" and low and behold Wii coverage around the house.

Put the router in an open space and remember that wifi goes in every direction so if you have it against an outside wall a lot of the signal will be going outside.
Try not to put anything in front of the router, this will just block the signal.
The free wifi router you got is only worth the money you paid for it, invest in an upgrade.
Count the amount of wifi devices in your house, if you have a lot invest in an upgrade.
If you have a big site, invest in an upgrade which maybe a mesh solution.

Shefwedfan

Clareman wrote: »

I always find it amusing that people complain about the wifi in their house and when you go looking for their router it's in a cabinet/behind a TV/by the front door. I called to a friend of a friends house as they were complaining about the WiFi being crap on their Vodafone, I went to my default mode of "the free router you got isn't great you should think of getting a proper 1" but called out to have a look, the router was on the hall table behind a cast iron piece of "art", I moved the piece of "art" and low and behold Wii coverage around the house.

Put the router in an open space and remember that wifi goes in every direction so if you have it against an outside wall a lot of the signal will be going outside.
Try not to put anything in front of the router, this will just block the signal.
The free wifi router you got is only worth the money you paid for it, invest in an upgrade.
Count the amount of wifi devices in your house, if you have a lot invest in an upgrade.
If you have a big site, invest in an upgrade which maybe a mesh solution.

The issue is a lot of time the connection into the router is not in an ideal location for the router. This means you have loads of router sitting in hall at a front door so maybe 45% of the coverage is sitting in the front garden and not in the house at all.



If is cheaper to buy a mesh than try to move the connection to another spot in the house. leaving items in front or blocking the router is just silly but I have seen people do it because they feel it is not a nice thing to have sitting in full view

bk

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The issue is a lot of time the connection into the router is not in an ideal location for the router. This means you have loads of router sitting in hall at a front door so maybe 45% of the coverage is sitting in the front garden and not in the house at all.

If is cheaper to buy a mesh than try to move the connection to another spot in the house. leaving items in front or blocking the router is just silly but I have seen people do it because they feel it is not a nice thing to have sitting in full view

It really isn't that difficult to run a single ethernet cable to better position your router. In particular if you are in a bungalow.

It really is the first place anyone should start with if they can.

I appreciate that not everyone can do it, but in reality I expect most can.

Even if you can't as Clareman says, simply pulling it out from behind your TV/metal hall table can make a big difference, as can upgrading it.

That isn't to say that some people don't need wifi systems, some do, but I suspect far more people are buying into them then actually need to.

Clareman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The issue is a lot of time the connection into the router is not in an ideal location for the router. This means you have loads of router sitting in hall at a front door so maybe 45% of the coverage is sitting in the front garden and not in the house at all.



If is cheaper to buy a mesh than try to move the connection to another spot in the house. leaving items in front or blocking the router is just silly but I have seen people do it because they feel it is not a nice thing to have sitting in full view

I called to a house once which were complaining about poor WiFi, had a quick look at the router and asked where the antenea were, I was told that they didn't like the look of them so took them off.....

People don't like the "look" of technology so it's hidden, 1 of the positives of stuff like the Nest Wifi is that they look ok so they don't look out of place in a central part of the house, but often people will just lump the router next to the all door cause that's where the phone socket is, there might be an extention in the living room/kitchen that'll work fine by they'll leave the router there.

People don't value technology, they think it should be free, after all why pay for a router when you get a free 1 off the ISP, or, heaven forbid, look at the different ISPs and their router options. I got an fairly decent FritzBox from my ISP which I'd be confident would do 90% of houses in Ireland.

Clareman

bk wrote: »

It really isn't that difficult to run a single ethernet cable to better position your router. In particular if you are in a bungalow.

It really is the first place anyone should start with if they can.

I appreciate that not everyone can do it, but in reality I expect most can.

Even if you can't as Clareman says, simply pulling it out from behind your TV/metal hall table can make a big difference, as can upgrading it.

That isn't to say that some people don't need wifi systems, some do, but I suspect far more people are buying into them then actually need to.

I got a 50m ethernet cable for less than €1 years ago thanks to a bargain alert, I often bring it with me to someone's house who's complaining so I can move the router easily, then find a sweet spot for the router and tell them if they can move the router there.

Then again, some times you'll see that people have the router down on the ground underneath a table or using an old phone cable to connect it or some other nightmare scenario.

garo

Unfortunately, it isn't always possible to bring the cable or fibre to the centre of the house. My Virgin Hub is next to the TV, close to an outside wall and right next to the fireplace so it ticks a number of your "don't dos". It is not blocked by anything as long as no one pushes it back from its place. Which does happen. It would be super awkward to move it as I would need to bring an Ethernet cable back to the HTPC under the TV. With that amount of effort and disruption I might as well run Cat6 everywhere.

I agree that mesh is only really a good solution for large or awkwardly shaped houses with dead-spots. So I have decided to return the Huawei and get a TP-Link Archer C2300.

garo

bk wrote: »

It really isn't that difficult to run a single ethernet cable to better position your router. In particular if you are in a bungalow.

It really is the first place anyone should start with if they can.

I appreciate that not everyone can do it, but in reality I expect most can.

I'd be happy to get some advice on this. I have wood floors and a fireplace in the middle of where the cable-run would be. How do I run the cable without destroying the aesthetics and pissing off the SO?

Clareman

garo wrote: »

I'd be happy to get some advice on this. I have wood floors and a fireplace in the middle of where the cable-run would be. How do I run the cable without destroying the aesthetics and pissing off the SO?

If you every figure this 1 out let me know :pac::pac::pac:

GinSoaked

garo wrote: »

I'd be happy to get some advice on this. I have wood floors and a fireplace in the middle of where the cable-run would be. How do I run the cable without destroying the aesthetics and pissing off the SO?

I haven't done this in years but I can remember a couple of jobs in old buildings where we went out through the wall with the cable around the building and back in at the other side. Also possible to go out then up the wall into the roof which can then give you access to all the rooms upstairs or all the rooms in most bungalows.

One was so long ago I remember using coax :eek: with lightening protectors. :eek::eek:

Edit also used something similar to this flat supposed Cat7 under carpets and also out of windows so they can still close but that was only a temporary measure.

garo

Thanks. A flat cable is certainly less likely to upset. But note I have wood floors and not carpets so that limits my options.
I plan to eventually run cable up vertically from ground floor into the attic from where I can access most rooms. That bit is doable as it involves only a single incision in the dry wall and no studs to cross.
But I do think drilling through outside walls or cutting channels/holes through studs/joists followed by repairing the drywall/painting over is not something the SO will allow Plus with all that hassle I might just get a more powerful wifi router and see if that will do the job.

JimmyVik

garo wrote: »

I'd be happy to get some advice on this. I have wood floors and a fireplace in the middle of where the cable-run would be. How do I run the cable without destroying the aesthetics and pissing off the SO?

Are you married?
If the answer is yes, you wont be running wires anywhere

bk

Clareman wrote: »

Then again, some times you'll see that people have the router down on the ground underneath a table or using an old phone cable to connect it or some other nightmare scenario.

It is exactly this for my parents and both my sisters!

Under a table in the hall seems to be the norm for Eir/VDSL and behind the TV seems to be the norm for most people with Virgin Media.

Neither great spots, though the VM is at least slightly better location, at least living room is where a lot of people are sitting and using internet.

It is weird, it use to be that people would think nothing of getting a phone line run into multiple rooms of the house or an aerial/caox/sat cable into multiple rooms.

But it seems like everyone has gotten lazy with wifi, but then end up complaining when it doesn't work well!

garo wrote: »

Unfortunately, it isn't always possible to bring the cable or fibre to the centre of the house.

Well it is almost always possible, the question is if you have the DIY skills to run ethernet/coax or if not, willing to pay a professional to do it.

garo wrote: »

My Virgin Hub is next to the TV, close to an outside wall and right next to the fireplace so it ticks a number of your "don't dos". It is not blocked by anything as long as no one pushes it back from its place. Which does happen. It would be super awkward to move it as I would need to bring an Ethernet cable back to the HTPC under the TV. With that amount of effort and disruption I might as well run Cat6 everywhere.

Yes, a bit more complicated setup. A possible option:

- Put something like a Microtik or Ubiquiti router behind your VM router, behind your TV, ethernet from the Microtik to the HTPC and a second ethernet to run to a central location where you then put a Ubiquiti or TP-Link Access Point.

dam099

JimmyVik wrote: »

Are you married?
If the answer is yes, you wont be running wires anywhere

If you think you can do it discreetly its better to ask forgiveness than permission.

Some white flat cable* tucked into architraves and along skirting can take a while to spot. If that takes a few weeks they can hardly argue its spoiling the aesthetics that much.

* Obviously works best if you have white ones not varnished wood.

garo

bk wrote: »

It is weird, it use to be that people would think nothing of getting a phone line run into multiple rooms of the house or an aerial/coax/sat cable into multiple rooms.

But it seems like everyone has gotten lazy with wifi, but then end up complaining when it doesn't work well!

That's a very good point. The house has coax and phone lines running to almost every room including the attic. Tbh I am kicking myself I didn't do the cat 6 run everywhere when we were getting the floors and walls redone. Point being it can be done, and has been done in the house. And I will probably end doing it eventually.

Yes, a bit more complicated setup. A possible option:

- Put something like a Microtik or Ubiquiti router behind your VM router, behind your TV, ethernet from the Microtik to the HTPC and a second ethernet to run to a central location where you then put a Ubiquiti or TP-Link Access Point.

That's an interesting idea. So a non-wifi router attached to a wifi AP via Ethernet. But then why not just use the VM for the wired connections and run a cable straight to an AP?

bk

dam099 wrote: »

If you think you can do it discreetly its better to ask forgiveness than permission.

Some white flat cable* tucked into architraves and along skirting can take a while to spot. If that takes a few weeks they can hardly argue its spoiling the aesthetics that much.

* Obviously works best if you have white ones not varnished wood.

This. I got some microtrunking to run along the top of the skirting board in the bedroom with a power cable and ethernet cable in it.

Trunking is white, wall and skirting board are actually cream. I didn't say anything about it to the OH. A few weeks pass and I heard nothing from her. I finally pointed it out and she said she never noticed!! Looks good and neat.

Sometimes the idea of something is worse then the reality.

I will admit that I'm lucky that the missus is fairly geeky herself, not quiet the same way I am, but she does like tech and the HA stuff I've done, so she is pretty supportive of it all.

garo

I am with you. And I would have gone the micro-trunking over skirting board route if it wasn't for the damn fireplace in the middle. I could go the other direction but that would make the cable run about 3x as long and would have to run it over the architrave. Again I'll probably do it anyway as I also want to hook up the receiver to the TV again the damn fireplace separates them too. (and put one speaker on the other side)

So no appetite for pulling out the skirting board then?

bk

garo wrote: »

That's a very good point. The house has coax and phone lines running to almost every room including the attic. Tbh I am kicking myself I didn't do the cat 6 run everywhere when we were getting the floors and walls redone. Point being it can be done, and has been done in the house. And I will probably end doing it eventually.

Yep, I always recommend running cat6 if building new or doing renovations. Well worth it.

garo wrote: »

That's an interesting idea. So a non-wifi router attached to a wifi AP via Ethernet. But then why not just use the VM for the wired connections and run a cable straight to an AP?

You could do that too. I'm not too impressed with the VM router, so I try to use it is little as possible. I prefer to use it just as a modem in bridge mode. Of course you could try with just an AP and then add a router later if you felt it would help.

garo

There's a very good deal on the C2300 - highly rated by Tom's Guide - on komplett so I sort of have my heart set on it. That of course combines the AP and router functions in one device so doesn't work well for my complicated set up. But I am hoping the router is powerful enough that I don't need a second AP.

I am probably going to order some bulk cable, RJ45s and a crimping tool for my next project. Added to an ever-growing list of home improvement tasks.

GinSoaked

If anyone is looking for just a powerful dual band AP then I can recommend the TP-Link AC1750 Wi-Fi Dual Band Gigabit Ceiling Mount Access Point for Ubiquiti junkies there will be a similar Ubiquiti device thats just as good. Its not cheap but its industrial quality.

degsie

GinSoaked wrote: »

If anyone is looking for just a powerful dual band AP then I can recommend the TP-Link AC1750 Wi-Fi Dual Band Gigabit Ceiling Mount Access Point for Ubiquiti junkies there will be a similar Ubiquiti device thats just as good. Its not cheap but its industrial quality.

Not a mesh system unfortunately.

GinSoaked

degsie wrote: »

Not a mesh system unfortunately.

I think I mentioned AP in the post, in reply to a post that mentioned they hoped they didn't need a second AP but don't let that stop you posting the obvious.

degsie

GinSoaked wrote: »

I think I mentioned AP in the post, in reply to a post that mentioned they hoped they didn't need a second AP but don't let that stop you posting the obvious.

No problem, just trying to keep the thread on topic.

Clareman

dam099 wrote: »

If you think you can do it discreetly its better to ask forgiveness than permission.

Some white flat cable* tucked into architraves and along skirting can take a while to spot. If that takes a few weeks they can hardly argue its spoiling the aesthetics that much.

* Obviously works best if you have white ones not varnished wood.

I'd second this, if you really want to "get away with it" try to time it with a bit of DIY/painting in the room where you are laying the cable, tell her that the skirting boards need to be redone cause they have come away from the floor so you are going to take them up, paint the walls and then put them back (with cable that she'll never see under them).

Personally I'd either go for divorce or a mesh system, I can't ****ing stand painting.

Clareman

bk wrote: »

Yep, I always recommend running cat6 if building new or doing renovations. Well worth it.

+1 for the cat 6 cable, it opens up so many options, friend of mine ran 2 cat 6 to every room in his house, in some rooms 4, ran all the cables back to a central patch panel where he keeps all his sky boxes and runs HDMI-Cat6 "yokes".

JimmyVik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT1NH5_Wew4

Ive been using a set of 3 of these for about a year and found them great. House has stone walls and foil back insulation everywhere so normal wifi doesnt get everywhere in the house and definitely not into the garden or garage.
These, you just plug in. One is plugged directly into the router. One in the center of the house and I even have one on top of the fridge in the kitchen which gives perfect wifi to the garage and the garden.
3 of these cover the whole house, garden, granny flat and garage perfectly. They cost £60 on Amazon. You can get even more powerful ones for MW6 I think they are called.
Also you can add 1 or more of each type at any time, and mix MW3 and MW6. And they all have a wired access port too if you wanted to wire any device into it.