Wifi mesh systems

poker--addict

poker--addict wrote: »

Can you explain that further for the uneducated amongst us?

"What is Double NAT? | Answer | NETGEAR Support" https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT

Clareman

Clareman wrote: »

NAT is network address translation, at a high level it means now a router figures what you're looking for and how to get there, think Google maps translating an eir code to an address, then to longitude & latitude and finally how to get there quickest from where you are. If you have 2 routers doing the job you are doing all this working out twice which will mean slower journeys or in some cases not being able to decide on the route to take at all.

Most times it won't be an issue but if you might notice speed issues with some applications (gaming being a great example of this) or services with extra security (like VPNs)

Oh yeah, should have added that this works both ways so you might have devices on your network you want to see from the outside (CCTV, media servers, smart tech), double NAT can make this a pain in the arse to setup

tonc76

Has anyone bought and successfully set up this yet?

I want to extend my wi fi range and with a view to future proofing I think the eero 6 is the way to go. I already have various amazon products (echos, ring doorbell and cameras) and there are some good prime deals on at the moment (eero 6 router and 2 x extenders for £195 which is 30% off for instance)

My bb provider is eir and I have 4g mobile broadband with a Huawei B628 router regularly getting download speeds of 70+MB and upload of 15+MB. It appears that 5G is now available in my area too so I'll change to that if a trial with my phone goes well.

Am I wasting my time going for the eero 6 over the eero or eero pro?

RangeR

tonc76 wrote: »

Has anyone bought and successfully set up this yet?

I want to extend my wi fi range and with a view to future proofing I think the eero 6 is the way to go. I already have various amazon products (echos, ring doorbell and cameras) and there are some good prime deals on at the moment (eero 6 router and 2 x extenders for £195 which is 30% off for instance)

My bb provider is eir and I have 4g mobile broadband with a Huawei B628 router regularly getting download speeds of 70+MB and upload of 15+MB. It appears that 5G is now available in my area too so I'll change to that if a trial with my phone goes well.

Am I wasting my time going for the eero 6 over the eero or eero pro?

I think you are barking up the wrong tree with the eero. I don't think you will be future proofing with the this product. This is not something I would purchase. I've never heard of this system before but just read a few reviews.

Some features on the eero require a subscription, although not sure why anyone would pay for it.

As far as hardware is concerned, you get what you pay for. The eero hardware is cheap, underpowered and limited. It has a hard time routing traffic through the mesh optimally. This may change with software updates. It also doesn't have any wired backhaul option so all mesh transfers are over a separate wifi band. Not a deal breaker by any means, unless wifi is going through concrete/metal or many obstacles.

The clear winner in these here parts is the TP-Link DECO range, M5, M7, M9, P9, X20, X60. You will pay a little extra but receive multitude more features. You also have the DECO E4/S4 range if on a budget.

A router/Mesh should be seen as a mid to long term investment. Pay as much as you can afford and one with as many features as possible. There is a high chance you will want those features down the road.

I have Google WIFI and I no longer recommend it to anyone except those who lack total technical knowledge. I'm looking to get rid of it soon for a DECO.

The eero reviews I read are here:

https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/eero-6-review-amazons-wi-fi-6-mesh-router-underwhelms/
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/amazon-eero-6

* As with all of these products, you only want one router on your network. Bridge your existing router before hooking up another one.

davo2001

My father in law has Eir 1000Mbit fiber with patchy wireless connectivity. He has router.

On recommendations here i've gotten him 3 x TP-Link Deco M4 units, and waiting on delivery.

Do people recommend just disabling the wifi on the Eir router and using all 3 units as AP's?

Or is it worth putting the Eir router in bridge mode (if so is there a guide how?) and using DHCP for the LAN via one of the TP-links?

Edit: image of router: https://imgur.com/DUX1BHL

RangeR

davo2001 wrote: »

My father in law has Eir 1000Mbit fiber with patchy wireless connectivity. He has router.

On recommendations here i've gotten him 3 x TP-Link Deco M4 units, and waiting on delivery.

Do people recommend just disabling the wifi on the Eir router and using all 3 units as AP's?

Or is it worth putting the Eir router in bridge mode (if so is there a guide how?) and using DHCP for the LAN via one of the TP-links?

Yes, put eir box into bridged/modem mode. Disable wifi but bridging may do that anyway. I don't have eir so can't post a guide.

Your DECO should do everything at that point, firewall, router, DHCP, NAT etc.

NOTE: ONLY plug your DECO into your eir modem, nothing else. It's no longer protected. If you have other hardwired devices, please purchase a separate 4/8/16 port switch and connect it to the DECO LAN port.

davo2001

RangeR wrote: »

Yes, put eir box into bridged/modem mode. Disable wifi but bridging may do that anyway. I don't have eir so can't post a guide.

Your DECO should do everything at that point, firewall, router, DHCP, NAT etc.

NOTE: ONLY plug your DECO into your eir modem, nothing else. It's no longer protected. If you have other hardwired devices, please purchase a separate 4/8/16 port switch and connect it to the DECO LAN port.

Cheers, thanks.

If anyone can identify the model of Eir router from the link below so i can lookup bridging guide (sorry, I'm an hours drive away or cannot double check myself). I think it's an F1000 or F2000?

https://imgur.com/DUX1BHL

babelfish1990

davo2001 wrote: »

Cheers, thanks.

If anyone can identify the model of Eir router from the link below so i can lookup bridging guide (sorry, I'm an hours drive away or cannot double check myself). I think it's an F1000 or F2000?

https://imgur.com/DUX1BHL

It looks like an Eir F3000. If so, this supports Mesh natively. While there is nothing wrong with the Deco, you would be better advise to get Eir's own mesh devices, which will work directly off the F3000 - Eir Smart WiFi hubs. If you go for another make such as TPlink Deco, you will need an extra unit to cover the zone currently covered by the Eir F3000. Eir Smart WiFi hubs are very high-spec WiFi 6, and reasonably priced.

If you do decide to keep the Deco's, I wouldn't recommend bridge mode unless you really understand networking and security protocols. It's too dangerous, and you won't be able to get customer care to login and help you if you have issues. Instead just plug the first Deco into the F3000 and turn off WiFi in the F3000. Configure the Deco's in Access Point mode, not Router mode.

tonc76

RangeR wrote: »

I think you are barking up the wrong tree with the eero......

That's exactly the advice I was looking for thanks

RangeR

babelfish1990 wrote: »

If you go for another make such as TPlink Deco, you will need an extra unit to cover the zone currently covered by the Eir F3000

If you do decide to keep the Deco's, I wouldn't recommend bridge mode unless you really understand networking and security protocols. It's too dangerous, and you won't be able to get customer care to login and help you if you have issues. Instead just plug the first Deco into the F3000 and turn off WiFi in the F3000. Configure the Deco's in Access Point mode, not Router mode.

6 of one, half dozen the other. You end up with only one router. Generally speaking, who gets modem support from eir, if you can even contact them?

If you are going to the expense of future proofing your network by purchasing a DECO solution, why disable it's core features and rely on the vastly subpar eir box?

The first DECO will always be hardwired to the router anyway so not sure why you mention this as a downside.

I've never heard of anybody actually recommending an eir branded mesh in this thread [or anywhere else]. I would never recommend such a solution. What happens when you migrate away from eir to another internet provider? Will your mesh add-ons work with your new provider router [vodafone, digiweb, virgin media, sky, siro, etc]? At €100 per AP, certainly not cheap for what it is.

alanhiggyno1

I got the tenda nova mw6 3 pack yesterday. The difference is night and day. Full signal throughout house and garden and no drops on speed. Would recommend

RangeR

alanhiggyno1 wrote: »

I got the tenda nova mw6 3 pack yesterday. The difference is night and day. Full signal throughout house and garden and no drops on speed. Would recommend

Never heard of them. They look the business. And the MW12 has THREE LAN ports. OMFG I think I just wet myself. Might give them a go instead of the DECO. Although they are a bit boxy. I like to wall mount mine high. Not sure if I can do this with the Tenda.

alec76

The clear winner in these here parts is the TP-Link DECO range, M5, M7, M9, P9, X20, X60. You will pay a little extra but receive multitude more features. You also have the DECO E4/S4 range if on a budget.

Anyone with any sense would stay away from TP LINK as far as possible.
There is nothing wrong with Google Mesh Systems, well only lunatic would get Google WiFi while Nest WIFI is available.
Why?
4x4 MIMO , ring a bell? ( you could hit 800 mbps over WIFI with 3x3 MIMO device , MacBook Pro 2017-19 , for instance) or you could hit over 500 mbps on two 2x2 MIMO devices ( regular smart phone)AT SAME time. Don’t you forget , it is only WIFI 5 system.
I don’t think there are any other retail system for home use with this feature available.
Well, any Pro/IT user would go for APs from Ubiquity or Aruba , but assuming they won’t be reading this thread anyway.

alec76

davo2001 wrote: »

My father in law has Eir 1000Mbit fiber with patchy wireless connectivity. He has router.

On recommendations here i've gotten him 3 x TP-Link Deco M4 units, and waiting on delivery.

Do people recommend just disabling the wifi on the Eir router and using all 3 units as AP's?

Or is it worth putting the Eir router in bridge mode (if so is there a guide how?) and using DHCP for the LAN via one of the TP-links?

Edit: image of router: https://imgur.com/DUX1BHL

Deco M4 .
Nice buy . You’ll be getting 150-200 mbps speeds with this system /
300 mbps with Ethernet bakhaul.
Eir´s mesh system would outperform it few times .

https://www.eir.ie/smartwifi/

If you went for DECO then there is no point of 1000 broadband package , stay with 150 mbps .

babelfish1990

RangeR wrote: »

The first DECO will always be hardwired to the router anyway so not sure why you mention this as a downside.

RangeR - it is a downside because it means with Deco you have to provide an additional access point to cover the zone currently covered by your Eir F3000 router (which supports mesh natively).

For example, Davo2001 told us that he had got a 3-pack of Deco M5. He would only have needed a twin pack of Eir Smart WiFi hubs (€169), as his third AP would be the native mesh WiFi in the F3000. More generally, you will require N+1 additional Access Points to cover a home with a 3rd party mesh solution vs N if you use the Eir Smart WiFi hubs with the F3000.

Furthermore, the spec of the Eir Smart WiFi hubs is higher than Deco M5 - it is WiFi 6. With Deco you need to go to their X series devices to get WiFi 6 - around €250 for a 3-pack. WiFi 6 is future-proofed up to 9.6Gbps, if the Eir fibre gets upgraded in the future from 1Gbps to 2-10Gbps. Regarding the compatibility with a future ISP - the Eir Smart WiFi hubs are standard WiFi 6 mesh devices, and their support page actually states that they will work with other ISP modems. (However, with another ISP that does not support mesh natively, you would then need to get an additional AP to cover your modem zone.)

alec76

RangeR wrote: »

At €100 per AP, certainly not cheap for what it is.

€100 for one ,€170 for two wifi 6APs not cheap ?
Er… I dunno .
Are you aware what WIFi 6 devices are ?

alec76

babelfish1990 wrote: »

WiFi 6 is future-proofed up to 9.6Gbps, if the Eir fibre gets upgraded in the future from 1Gbps to 2-10Gbps.

It is not about top speeds really,WiFi 6 definitely huge improvement in terms of compatibility , multiple clients could work seamlessly together under heavy load.
As for the top WIFI 6 speeds , you’ll be lucky to get 800mbps on your IPhone 12 /Samsung Galaxy s21 in real life , don’t mind 2-10Gbps.
Unless it is 3x3 /4x4 MIMO smartphone ( I am not sure if they exist btw)

babelfish1990

alec76 wrote: »

It is not about top speeds really,WiFi 6 definitely huge improvement in terms of compatibility , multiple clients could work seamlessly together under heavy load.
As for the top WIFI 6 speeds , you’ll be lucky to get 800mbps on your IPhone 12 /Samsung Galaxy s21 in real life , don’t mind 2-10Gbps.
Unless it is 3x3 /4x4 MIMO smartphone ( I am not sure if they exist btw)

I actually agree with you Alec76 - the headline speed is the least important of the attributes of WiFi 6, and not likely to be needed any time soon. I just mentioned it, because it is the easiest feature for non-technical users to use as a benchmark when comparing devices.

alanhiggyno1

RangeR wrote: »

Never heard of them. They look the business. And the MW12 has THREE LAN ports. OMFG I think I just wet myself. Might give them a go instead of the DECO. Although they are a bit boxy. I like to wall mount mine high. Not sure if I can do this with the Tenda.

You can wall mount them I did it with mine

RangeR

alec76 wrote: »

Anyone with any sense would stay away from TP LINK as far as possible.
There is nothing wrong with Google Mesh Systems, well only lunatic would get Google WiFi while Nest WIFI is available.
Why?
4x4 MIMO , ring a bell? ( you could hit 800 mbps over WIFI with 3x3 MIMO device , MacBook Pro 2017-19 , for instance) or you could hit over 500 mbps on two 2x2 MIMO devices ( regular smart phone)AT SAME time. Don’t you forget , it is only WIFI 5 system.
I don’t think there are any other retail system for home use with this feature available.
Well, any Pro/IT user would go for APs from Ubiquity or Aruba , but assuming they won’t be reading this thread anyway.

Ubiquity / Aruba are heavily overpriced. I'm a pro IT user and I wouldn't pay for these devices in my home. I prefer bang for buck, not always bleeding edge.



Respectfully, I have Google Wifi. It does what it does very well. But they also have limitations and drawbacks.


1. Yan't turn the router off. Well you can, but you lose your mesh and just have separate APs that all need to be hardwired back to the router.

2. No web interface. I have a PITA configuring the mesh from my mobile phone while sitting at my computer.
3. If the Google Home app isn't working, you aren't able to manage your network, Yes, this happened to me a few times.
4. Can only configure one SSID. Yes you can have an extra guest SSID. I'd like to have 3 or 4 SSID's to segregate my devices.
5. It has basic port forwarding, dhcp reservations etc but I'd also like to block internet connection to some devices [CCTV] and set up vLans per SSID / LAN.
6. Has no router based VPN client or server option.


There are many more features that I know are lacking from Google WIFI but just can't think of them at the moment.



I stand by my reasons of not recommending Google WIFI except for the absolutely non technical. For the money, I'd much rather the DECO M9.

RangeR

babelfish1990 wrote: »

RangeR - it is a downside because it means with Deco you have to provide an additional access point to cover the zone currently covered by your Eir F3000 router (which supports mesh natively).

For example, Davo2001 told us that he had got a 3-pack of Deco M5. He would only have needed a twin pack of Eir Smart WiFi hubs (€169), as his third AP would be the native mesh WiFi in the F3000. More generally, you will require N+1 additional Access Points to cover a home with a 3rd party mesh solution vs N if you use the Eir Smart WiFi hubs with the F3000.

Furthermore, the spec of the Eir Smart WiFi hubs is higher than Deco M5 - it is WiFi 6. With Deco you need to go to their X series devices to get WiFi 6 - around €250 for a 3-pack. WiFi 6 is future-proofed up to 9.6Gbps, if the Eir fibre gets upgraded in the future from 1Gbps to 2-10Gbps. Regarding the compatibility with a future ISP - the Eir Smart WiFi hubs are standard WiFi 6 mesh devices, and their support page actually states that they will work with other ISP modems. (However, with another ISP that does not support mesh natively, you would then need to get an additional AP to cover your modem zone.)

I agree with everything you said but you are relying on your router to be another wifi point in the mesh. This means that as soon as you leave eir for another provider you are back to N+1.


Of course the eir mesh devices will work with any ISP, it's just a LAN device. But they WON'T be compatible with the router wifi to widen the mesh. Why go for quasi ISP lock in when you don't have to? I just see no compelling reason to go eir mesh.

RangeR

alec76 wrote: »

€100 for one ,€170 for two wifi 6APs not cheap ?
Er… I dunno .
Are you aware what WIFi 6 devices are ?

Compared to competing product that offer more for similar money. I won't care about WIFI 6 until 3 to 5 years time. None of my devices support it. Me being me, I'll be moving onto another mesh by that time

Mc Love

Would the Deco M9 work for an external building(garage)? Cant use powerline as its not on the same electricity circuit unfortunately.

RangeR

Mc Love wrote: »

Would the Deco M9 work for an external building(garage)? Cant use powerline as its not on the same electricity circuit unfortunately.

I don't see why not IF the external building can get WIFI coverage from another in house M9.

Seamu$

What would be regarded as the best value Wifi6 mesh system currently?

Was looking at the Eero 6's but was put off by the poor reviews. I'd like to cover 3500 sq ft, have 500Mbps Vodafone FTTH - getting 41Mbps on the 2.4GHz & 263Mpbs on the 5GHz networks on mobile just next to the router.

Would Deco X20's be a good option?

alec76

Seamu$ wrote: »

What would be regarded as the best value Wifi6 mesh system currently?

Was looking at the Eero 6's but was put off by the poor reviews. I'd like to cover 3500 sq ft, have 500Mbps Vodafone FTTH - getting 41Mbps on the 2.4GHz & 263Mpbs on the 5GHz networks on mobile just next to the router.

Would Deco X20's be a good option?

Unless you could connect all 3 DECO x20 units with Ethernet backhaul , don’t bother, you won’t see speeds above 200-280 mbps from the APs.

Clareman

I am holding off on Wifi 6 for a while, I have a few devices that can handle it but for anything that I need that much bandwidth I have a cable for it, as I've SIRO broadband internet speed isn't really a concern.

Mickeroo

Been toying with grabbing the google wifi router and point while they are on sale. House is a standard enough three bed semi-d, wifi coverage is grand for the most part but the sun room and back garden are pretty patchy. Would be nice to have full 5Ghz signal out there too.

Just wondering before I decide to pull the trigger or not, has anyone had any issues getting devices connected to them that are reliant on 2.4Ghz wifi?

I know from recent experience of eir getting rid of the separate 5Ghz band on my router that my smart plugs, robovac and the data logger for the solar panels wouldn't connect when they were relying on band steering to pick the right band so I don't want to drop money on the mesh system if these devices won't work with it.

Also I presume there's no issue using these with eir's router?

Cheers!

alec76

Mickeroo wrote: »

Been toying with grabbing the google wifi router and point while they are on sale!

Don't do this mistake.
Only NEST WiFi routers are worth buying IMO , stay away from Google WIFI router which is first generation.
Instead of buying
Nest WiFi router and Nest WiFi point go for 2 NEST WIFI ROUTERS.( second router could work as a point and has 2 Ethernet ports).
ps. Why wouldn't you go for EIR Smart WIFI altogether?
Cheapest option if your current Eir's router is F3000.

Clareman

Mickeroo wrote: »

Been toying with grabbing the google wifi router and point while they are on sale. House is a standard enough three bed semi-d, wifi coverage is grand for the most part but the sun room and back garden are pretty patchy. Would be nice to have full 5Ghz signal out there too.

Just wondering before I decide to pull the trigger or not, has anyone had any issues getting devices connected to them that are reliant on 2.4Ghz wifi?

I know from recent experience of eir getting rid of the separate 5Ghz band on my router that my smart plugs, robovac and the data logger for the solar panels wouldn't connect when they were relying on band steering to pick the right band so I don't want to drop money on the mesh system if these devices won't work with it.

Also I presume there's no issue using these with eir's router?

Cheers!

I've a very similar setup to you, 4 bedrooms, sun room, garden and a mix of 2.4 and 5 devices (camera, vacuum, doorbell on 2.4) and I have to say I haven't had a single problem, Nest automatically switches the devices to the 2.4 network if that's what's wanted, you just have 2 WiFi networks (main and guest) so you don't need to worry about different frequencies, it just works.