Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

LuasSimon

In this like many other countries there is a huge difference between taxing income and taxing wealth .
Is it fair that someone with 40 Million in wealth only pays tax on their income of 100k pays 30k in tax whilst someone with no assets earning 60k pays 15K tax ?

Pkiernan

Let me hazard a guess.

You wont be one of the people affected by a wealth tax.

Beasty

If someone has €40m in assets there's a fair chance they are earning (taxable) income on some if not all those assets. They may also have paid Stamp Duty when purchasing some of those assets. They face capital gains tax when they sell their assets, an if they give them away, or die while owning them there's Capital Acquisitions Tax to consider

Capital is far from tax free

Geuze

LuasSimon wrote: »

In this like many other countries there is a huge difference between taxing income and taxing wealth .
Is it fair that someone with 40 Million in wealth only pays tax on their income of 100k pays 30k in tax whilst someone with no assets earning 60k pays 15K tax ?

Wealth taxes have proven to be difficult to administer.

As such, some countries scrapped them.

I not totally against them, although I don't think a wealth tax would raise as much as some communists/Marxists in Ireland suggest.

astrofool

Yes, lets, we'll take, say $10 trillion away from the wealthiest and evenly divide it among everyone on the planet (~7 billion), so we each get $1400. What do we do next?

Or do you want to redirect the wealth towards Irish citizens only?

Geuze

LuasSimon wrote: »

In this like many other countries there is a huge difference between taxing income and taxing wealth .
Is it fair that someone with 40 Million in wealth only pays tax on their income of 100k pays 30k in tax whilst someone with no assets earning 60k pays 15K tax ?

Here is some reading on wealth taxes:

https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2020/01/wealth-and-taxes-overview.html

4068ac1elhodqr

astrofool wrote: »

Yes, lets, we'll take, say $10 trillion away from the wealthiest and evenly divide it among everyone on the planet (~7 billion), so we each get $1400. What do we do next?

As of 2018, there are over 2,200 U.S. dollar billionaires worldwide, with a combined wealth of over US$9.1 trillion (up from US$7.67 trillion in 2017).
According to a 2017 Oxfam report, the 'top 8' richest billionaires own as much combined wealth as "half the human race".

$1,300 for everyone on the planet sure would do a whole massive heap of goodnesss. For many folks (hundred of millions) with only two sticks to rub together, it's likely a near lifetime guarantee of success in health, enterprise, employment, education or some basic housing for a family using the combined 2600usd. If under 18's are included (29% of globe) in the superbonu$money party, that's their higher education paid for in most parts.

For every single (1) billionaire, they're securing a life of prosper or betterment, for 3,181,818 people. Not a bad idea, and not a bad ratio of contribution.

lawred2

There was a time I'd have disagreed with a wealth tax but wealth inequality is so out of control at this stage that something has to be done to rebalance the scales.

astrofool

Remy Broad Cave wrote: »

As of 2018, there are over 2,200 U.S. dollar billionaires worldwide, with a combined wealth of over US$9.1 trillion (up from US$7.67 trillion in 2017).
According to a 2017 Oxfam report, the 'top 8' richest billionaires own as much combined wealth as "half the human race".

$1,300 for everyone on the planet sure would do a whole massive heap of goodnesss. For many folks (hundred of millions) with only two sticks to rub together, it's likely a near lifetime guarantee of success in health, enterprise, employment, education or some basic housing for a family using the combined 2600usd. If under 18's are included (29% of globe) in the superbonu$money party, that's their higher education paid for in most parts.

For every single (1) billionaire, they're securing a life of prosper or betterment, for 3,181,818 people. Not a bad idea, and not a bad ratio of contribution.

There is 7bn people on earth and about $360trn held privately, tax it at 3% per year, and divide it evenly, and everyone gets $1400 a year for 30 years.

Most of these wealth taxes are along the lines of "someone else has money, I should have that money".

The other reality is that the governments control the money anyway, so it's not in their interest to dilute it's value by doing redistribution at this level (and dollars to donuts, after a year, the money would be back in the hands of those it started off with).

Fred Cryton

When you think about it a tax on wealth would actually be the second time the wealth has been taxed. The first time you were taxed on whatever activity it was which allowed you to purchase the asset (such as income tax on salary, which is used to buy a property.) So if you used your after tax income to purchase something, why should you be taxed again on the asset you own?

The only tax on wealth should be inheritance tax, because you clearly didn't earn it if you're born into it. Even that is questionable as your parents paid income tax as described above, but at least it didn't apply to you personally.

Yellow_Fern

LuasSimon wrote: »

In this like many other countries there is a huge difference between taxing income and taxing wealth .
Is it fair that someone with 40 Million in wealth only pays tax on their income of 100k pays 30k in tax whilst someone with no assets earning 60k pays 15K tax ?

That money isnt normally hoarded. Its out doing something, usually in businesses. If it hoarded it will can be subject to negative interest rates. Normal people are shielded from this.

Beasty

lawred2 wrote: »

There was a time I'd have disagreed with a wealth tax but wealth inequality is so out of control at this stage that something has to be done to rebalance the scales.

It's one of those things though that if introduced unilaterally in Ireland it a flight of capital (and rich individuals) would occur. Those with the most can afford the best advice to ensure they keep the most. That results in Ireland losing rather than gaining tax receipts.

It only works if you adopt a global approach. Now that is, to a limited extent, already happening in the Corporate World, but we remain very far from a standard set of tax rules between any two countries, let alone all nations across the World

markodaly

LuasSimon wrote: »

In this like many other countries there is a huge difference between taxing income and taxing wealth .
Is it fair that someone with 40 Million in wealth only pays tax on their income of 100k pays 30k in tax whilst someone with no assets earning 60k pays 15K tax ?

We already have a wealth tax in Ireland, its called the property tax, which, as you guess it all the left wing parties oppose....

The Irish Left for you.

Atlantic Dawn

Put 10 cent on a litre of fresh air.

Shefwedfan

Start at bottom and work way up

Social welfare:
Shut down the never ending child allowance, 3-4 kids, don’t care but Pick a max and stop, want anymore pay for them yourself
Christmas bonus gone
Stop at source rent for council houses, fix that then come back

aligator_am

LuasSimon wrote: »

In this like many other countries there is a huge difference between taxing income and taxing wealth .
Is it fair that someone with 40 Million in wealth only pays tax on their income of 100k pays 30k in tax whilst someone with no assets earning 60k pays 15K tax ?

If this wealth tax is going to be applied based on asset value then you can be sure that the "poor" farmers will be out in force against it.

Something else other countries do, including the very left leaning Scandinavians is that they will give very generous unemployment payouts, for a very limited time.

For some reason (my theory is that it's a vote earner) Ireland seems to reward certain tranches of society here to suckle on the teat of government handouts from cradle to grave, at the expense of the working man.

If you try to implement this kind of tax, then people who have mobile cash assets will just uproot their dosh and move it out of here.

Also, the person who as €40 million in wealth, are they running a company, if so then how many employees do they have? How much tax are those employees contributing to the exchequer each month?

If the employer pulls the plug after this new tax approach is enforced, they may well just jump ship and relocate to a much friendlier location from their point of view.

Shefwedfan

The plan was to spend 21.2 billion this year on social welfare before Covid....300 million is Christmas bonus.

rn

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Start at bottom and work way up

Social welfare:
Shut down the never ending child allowance, 3-4 kids, don’t care but Pick a max and stop, want anymore pay for them yourself
Christmas bonus gone
Stop at source rent for council houses, fix that then come back

This post pretty much hits the weakest in society, hardest.

nigeldaniel

By all accounts tax the bloodstock business [Horses] good and proper, whatever about the wealthy.

a_squirrelman

The wealthy are already taxed st 40%.

machiavellianme

a_squirrelman wrote: »

The wealthy are already taxed st 40%.

I'm not wealthy but I'm taxed a whole lot more than 40%, just like many on here. Especially when you add in vat on many goods after income tax, property tax, motor tax, etc.

a_squirrelman

machiavellianme wrote: »

I'm not wealthy but I'm taxed a whole lot more than 40%, just like many on here. Especially when you add in vat on many goods after income tax, property tax, motor tax, etc.

Yep exactly. And richer people pay those things too. And if they have investments they pay CGT on gains. If they have higher incomes they pay higher income tax/USC/etc.

So I don't know what kind of wealth tax would suit the OP. There is property tax already sure.

lawred2

a_squirrelman wrote: »

The wealthy are already taxed st 40%.

You don't understand what wealth is

a_squirrelman

lawred2 wrote: »

You don't understand what wealth is

Yes I do, those on much higher salaries are also taxed at 40%.

declanflynn

aligator_am wrote: »

If this wealth tax is going to be applied based on asset value then you can be sure that the "poor" farmers will be out in force against it.

Something else other countries do, including the very left leaning Scandinavians is that they will give very generous unemployment payouts, for a very limited time.

For some reason (my theory is that it's a vote earner) Ireland seems to reward certain tranches of society here to suckle on the teat of government handouts from cradle to grave, at the expense of the working man.

If you try to implement this kind of tax, then people who have mobile cash assets will just uproot their dosh and move it out of here.

Also, the person who as €40 million in wealth, are they running a company, if so then how many employees do they have? How much tax are those employees contributing to the exchequer each month?

If the employer pulls the plug after this new tax approach is enforced, they may well just jump ship and relocate to a much friendlier location from their point of view.

O yeah the farmers, we need to screw more out of them, farming is responsible for 13% of our exports and 200000 jobs plus they provide us with top quality food.
Average income on farms is€21000, are you Larry Goodman?

lawred2

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Yes I do, those on much higher salaries are also taxed at 40%.

You don't really..

Real wealth is accumulated largely passively. Not through salaried employment.

Employment is more than sufficiently taxed in Ireland.

a_squirrelman

lawred2 wrote: »

You don't really..

Real wealth is accumulated largely passively. Not through salaried employment.

Employment is more than sufficiently taxed in Ireland.

So if I as a salaried person am investing passively each month so I can maybe retire a couple of years early and have a decent standard of life in later years then that is the wealth the OP wants to steal from me?

Jaysus, that sucks, imagine acting a little responsibly and planning for your future only for it to be robbed by those who don't take financial responsibility for their lives.

lawred2

a_squirrelman wrote: »

So if I as a salaried person am investing passively each month so I can maybe retire a couple of years early and have a decent standard of life in later years then that is the wealth the OP wants to steal from me?

Jaysus, that sucks, imagine acting a little responsibly and planning for your future only for it to be robbed by those who don't take financial responsibility for their lives.

Yeah your definition of wealth and mine are a long way apart.

Do you have 40m in assets?

a_squirrelman

lawred2 wrote: »

Yeah your definition of wealth and mine are a long way apart.

Do you have 40m in assets?

No I don't of course. But what do you propose? Those with 40m in assets are generally in business and providing jobs.



Share your idea with us, I would really like to hear the ideas of how to tax the wealthy and where the cut off of wealthy/not wealthy lies. I'm not being sarcastic at all btw, genuinely curious.

Idbatterim

rn wrote: »

This post pretty much hits the weakest in society, hardest.

Here we go ! Many people I know struggling and breaking their balls to safe deposit, to get rip off housing and borrowing from everyone they can , so many of " the most vulnerable " can continue fo blow billions of the welfare budget and absolute waste expenditure, if you arebt earning it yourself. How much of the welfare budgets goes on alcohol, cigarettes, take away, expensive broadband, tv , mobile packages, yeah.... billions , billions that the working poor in particular pay a heavy price for! They dont get free housing, medical carx , all the other cloud cuckoo land stuff!

overkill602

A vote winner for sure but they might be afraid one day there is no wealth left to tax.