Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

LeinsterDub

krissovo wrote: »

The issue is that those of us who have worked really hard, made sacrifices like long hours, working away, family separation that have had the benefit to place us in a steady financial position why should we be taxed again for those who choose a different lifestyle?

The thread is about taxing the wealthy, I assume you like probably everyone on this thread doesn't meet the defination of wealthy like the OP intended

krissovo

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The thread is about taxing the wealthy, I assume you like probably everyone on this thread doesn't meet the defination of wealthy like the OP intended

I meet your criteria

astrofool

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/tax-employee-share-schemes/company-share-option-plan


https://www.gov.uk/tax-employee-share-schemes/share-incentive-plans-sips

And because of these tax incentives, money has moved from the corporation to the employee, who is now free to spend it or save it, it's redistributed wealth from one source to another.

LeinsterDub

krissovo wrote: »

I meet your criteria

Then sorry but you can afford to pay a bit more.

LeinsterDub

astrofool wrote: »

And because of these tax incentives, money has moved from the corporation to the employee, who is now free to spend it or save it, it's redistributed wealth from one source to another.

Call me old fashioned but I prefer to tax wealth rather than letting the mega rich decide on what whim they decide to spend

biko

The title implies this would be a solution to the corona costs but thread turned out to be just another anti-capitalist chancing their old agenda under a new guise

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The mental and economic gymnastics needed to reach that conclusion are staggering. The problem is how much we spend. For an island nation and population our 80 billion quid intake is far more than enough.

Its actually not....people are paying higher tax,because our corp tax is so low??


Its hardly ground breaking news is it,how is it fair i pay 40+%,while billion companies dont?

LeinsterDub

biko wrote: »

The title implies this would be a solution to the corona costs but thread turned out to be just another anti-capitalist chancing their old agenda under a new guise

I've not seen one anti-capitalist post, did you perhap mean social democrats?

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

Its actually not....people are paying higher tax,because our corp tax is so low??


Its hardly ground breaking news is it,how is it fair i pay 40+%,while billion companies dont?

the companies pay 12.5% and all their employees pay income tax , taxing them more and them leaving leaves us with less tax. Our corporate tax structure was set up to attract business and jobs to Ireland.

You want to chase them out of Ireland to let the dregs of society have an even cushier life filling themselves with frozen chicken nuggets, cheap lager and hash.

astrofool

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Call me old fashioned but I prefer to tax wealth rather than letting the mega rich decide on what whim they decide to spend

Are you now classifying a company's annual PnL balance sheet figure as wealth?

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the companies pay 12.5% and all their employees pay income tax , taxing them more and them leaving leaves us with less tax. Our corporate tax structure was set up to attract business and jobs to Ireland.

You want to chase them out of Ireland to let the dregs of society have an even cushier life filling themselves with frozen chicken nuggets, cheap lager and hash.

So emm.....any answer how it is fair i pay 40+% tax,and likely to go up......and companies dont pay anything close to this and any discussion surronding raising corp.tax is to be shouted down?


Deosnt seem fair to me anyway.....quite what refering to anyone,who qs this as dregs of society achieves is beyond me

deceit

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Call me old fashioned but I prefer to tax wealth rather than letting the mega rich decide on what whim they decide to spend

Call me old fashioned but Id prefer for people that earn their money to keep it rather than constantly handing it out to professional layabouts.

quokula

Deleted User wrote: »

Its actually not....people are paying higher tax,because our corp tax is so low??


Its hardly ground breaking news is it,how is it fair i pay 40+%,while billion companies dont?

Because companies spend their money on employing you and giving you that salary to begin with. If companies are taxed more, for starters many would just leave the country and cause unemployment, but even if they don't the costs would be put on employees and customers.

And this would be far less progressive as the company would push as many of its additional tax costs onto their janitors as it would onto their managers, and those janitors will be more acutely impacted by more expensive products on shelves too. Neither of which is desirable compared to a progressive income tax system that the government controls.

riffmongous

ELM327 wrote: »

I'll leave it there with you, thanks.

Once you've joined the rat race you can't join them. Unfortunately.

Only 10 minutes before that you were agreeing with someone showing exactly how it can apparently.. funnily enough you were the one then claiming others would say it's made up :pac::pac:

ELM327 wrote: »

That's funny. All the left leaning posters on this thread and elsewhere would tell me your sister doesnt exist.

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

So emm.....any answer how it is fair i pay 40+% tax,and likely to go up......and companies dont pay anything close to this


Deosnt seem fair to me anyway.....quite what refering to anyone,who qs this as dregs of society achieves is beyond me

its not, but its not corporations or other taxpayers fault, its government policy for spending and the gimme gimme gimme class expecting to be looked after cradle to grave.

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the companies pay 12.5% and all their employees pay income tax , taxing them more and them leaving leaves us with less tax. Our corporate tax structure was set up to attract business and jobs to Ireland.

You want to chase them out of Ireland to let the dregs of society have an even cushier life filling themselves with frozen chicken nuggets, cheap lager and hash.

If only there was a happy medium between these two extremes :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not, but its not corporations or other taxpayers fault, its government policy for spending and the gimme gimme gimme class expecting to be looked after cradle to grave.

Looks to.me,if corporations pay more,il.have to pay less tbh



Like a simple google shows we arent even lowest in the EU like....how much would going from 12.5 to 14% raise (and still leave us 2nd lowest in the eu and long way off 4th lowest),

Imo everything should be up for review

Bass Reeves

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its actually not....people are paying higher tax,because our corp tax is so low??


Its hardly ground breaking news is it,how is it fair i pay 40+%,while billion companies dont?

First it is the rate for all companies big or small and no matter what industry. Traditionally we has two rates one for MNC of 10% and an indigenous rate if 40%. EU law dictated that we should have only one. So we used the 12.5% rate. If we raise that rate we can say adieu to the foreign corporation sector and some of the exporting indigenous which will shrink the rest of the indigenous sector.

While the 12.5% rate is low the only issue I have is the corporate tax reliefs on top of it. If these were limited it would bring in more tax. There is one huge advantage of the 12.5% rate. This that it encourages smaller company owners to leave excess capital in the company and pay the 12.5% rate once off. When the cash is within the company they are then inclined to invest it in the business and expand the business.

A high rate would be a huge barrier to leaving cash within a company. Company owners would be inclined to withdraw it as wages before paying corporate taxation on it. Why would you pay 40% corporate tax and then pay income tax on the dividend it would be a case of take the money and run

LeinsterDub

astrofool wrote: »

Are you now classifying a company's annual PnL balance sheet figure as wealth?

No.

deceit

Deleted User wrote: »

So emm.....any answer how it is fair i pay 40+% tax,and likely to go up......and companies dont pay anything close to this and any discussion surronding raising corp.tax is to be shouted down?


Deosnt seem fair to me anyway.....quite what refering to anyone,who qs this as dregs of society achieves is beyond me

It should be balanced across all sectors with a heavy incentive on long term dole scroungers to be taken off the dole, eg if your on the dole over 5 years, you have to do community service or have your dole reduced each year.
With a 21 Billion bill for welfare, doing this would have a significant benefit and limit how hard workers are impacted.

Also with being stuck in one of these places right now (I came over from Germany for a few days and got stuck here because of the lock down) and growing up in one, I can safely say they are the dregs of society.
In the cul dec sac I grew up in, every second house either bred a drug dealer or a junkie and in some cases both (saying that the other houses generally had the nicest people you could meet and hard working). Its interesting to see the difference though as people grow up and the hard workers leave and the dregs start to kill themselves off.

LeinsterDub

deceit wrote: »

With a 21 Billion bill for welfare, doing this would have a significant benefit and limit how hard workers are impacted.

Why do people keep on disingenuously conflating the whole welfare bill with the amount spent on those who are 'abusing the system'

We are talking closer to 2 billion .

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2020/https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2020/

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The mental and economic gymnastics needed to reach that conclusion are staggering. The problem is how much we spend. For an island nation and population our 80 billion quid intake is far more than enough.

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2020/
Show us you're homework so to speak. Where are your cuts happening?

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks to.me,if corporations pay more,il.have to pay less tbh



Like a simple google shows we arent even lowest in the EU like....how much would going from 12.5 to 14% raise (and still leave us 2nd lowest in the eu and long way off 4th lowest),

Imo everything should be up for review

So your review is to too push jobs out of the country at the loss of millions in revenue/tax for what exactly?

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So your review is to too push jobs out of the country at the loss of millions in revenue/tax for what exactly?

And where exactly did i say this??


I said raise tax from 12.5 to 14% and still leave us as 2nd lowest corp tax in the eu??


Like your thinking cutting xmas social payment amounting to 300million is gonna plug a 20 billion euro gap?

deceit

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why do people keep on disingenuously conflating the whole welfare bill with the amount spent on those who as 'abusing the system'

We are talking closer to 2 billion .

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2020/https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2020/

I did not say the whole 21billion is for this and it would be silly for anyone to take this as the meaning.
Lets go with your figure of 2 Billion, this is 2 billion less tax we are paying while having more taxable earners as their are more people in the work force. This would be a significant help to the economy with no downfalls that I can see? Would this figure of 2 Billion not just help me point out the issue even more even if it may be understated?

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

And where exactly did i say this??


I said raise tax from 12.5 to 14% and still leave us as 2nd lowest corp tax in the eu??


Like your thinking cutting xmas social payment amounting to 300million is gonna plug a 20 billion euro gap?

Unless you missed the last 2-3 pages, increasing the tax would drive those companies out of Ireland, not just from me but from a few posters who seem to know what they are talking about.



So what exactly would you gain from driving them out?

deceit

Deleted User wrote: »

And where exactly did i say this??


I said raise tax from 12.5 to 14% and still leave us as 2nd lowest corp tax in the eu??


Like your thinking cutting xmas social payment amounting to 300million is gonna plug a 20 billion euro gap?

Removing this and forcing long time dole scroungers into the work force when employment picks up again will give about 10% towards paying this bill.
With some of my previous comments, I just want to be clear I strongly believe their should be a safety net for people that are having hard times because of losing their jobs and social welfare is very important but we should not allow professional bums to take advantage of the system.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Unless you missed the last 2-3 pages, increasing the tax would drive those companies out of Ireland, not just from me but from a few posters who seem to know what they are talking about.



So what exactly would you gain from driving them out?

And where would they go??

We are present the 2nd lowest corp tax rate in the EU (38% higher than lowest btw),if we go from 12.5% to 14%,this still leaves us as 2nd lowest

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why do people keep on disingenuously conflating the whole welfare bill with the amount spent on those who are 'abusing the system'

We are talking closer to 2 billion .

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2020/https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/socialprotection/2020/

As I said, at the very start. Look at the couple of items I mentioned and then come back to look at other areas


Instead it seems to be the answer to hit the same group everytime with no review of social at any stage. Everyone should help out, do you not think? not just the usual target

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

And where would they go??

We are present the 2nd lowest corp tax rate in the EU (38% higher than lowest btw),if we go from 12.5% to 14%,this still leaves us as 2nd lowest

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