Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Read the thread

I have??


Still noone has answered as to where,if we still are 2nd lowest in eu if we go from 12.5 to 14% all the companies will go??


Its a relatively simple qs,seem obvious to me after asking for a 3rd time,you havnt an answer for,

deceit

deceit wrote: »

Removing this and forcing long time dole scroungers into the work force when employment picks up again will give about 10% towards paying this bill.
With some of my previous comments, I just want to be clear I strongly believe their should be a safety net for people that are having hard times because of losing their jobs and social welfare is very important but we should not allow professional bums to take advantage of the system.

I remain skeptical if they will be as productive as ya think,my dad done CE schemes during last recession and the lifers about,who never worked just simply wouldnt work


Imo the solution,is to keep the e350 a week payment for 1st few months people are signing and drop down then to e203 for long termers,this would also give good income security to those in seasonal jobs etc and reward people for working??

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I have??


Still noone has answered as to where,if we still are 2nd lowest in eu if we go from 12.5 to 14% all the companies will go??


Its a relatively simple qs,seem obvious to me after asking for a 3rd time,you havnt an answer for,

If you did it was already answered.

Plus as it was mentioned, it doesn't matter if it is 1% or 1.5% or whatever other crazy number people come up with.....that was also discussed

LeinsterDub

deceit wrote: »

I did not say the whole 21billion is for this and it would be silly for anyone to take this as the meaning.
Lets go with your figure of 2 Billion, this is 2 billion less tax we are paying while having more taxable earners as their are more people in the work force. This would be a significant help to the economy with no downfalls that I can see? Would this figure of 2 Billion not just help me point out the issue even more even if it may be understated?

And what happens to those and their dependants currently availing of that 2 billion? That has always been, is and will be my issue. I've no issue getting these people off the dole , the question is how , in a way that won't result in massive collateral damage

deceit

Deleted User wrote: »

I have??


Still noone has answered as to where,if we still are 2nd lowest in eu if we go from 12.5 to 14% all the companies will go??


Its a relatively simple qs,seem obvious to me after asking for a 3rd time,you havnt an answer for,

I am not too experienced in this area and may be incorrect but a simple guess would be Poland as with our very high wage bill, an increased tax bill combined with it would make other countries much more attractive than us. The reason I say Poland is I've dealt with a number of companies who have already being moving Irish jobs to Poland. I'm sure other cheaper countries in Europe would benefit even more.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you did it was already answered.

Except it wasnt,1 v.good answer which refers to increasing it to old domestic rate of 40%

But still none as regards raising it to 14% and still maintaining us as 2nd lowest in the EU??

deceit

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And what happens to those and their dependants currently availing of that 2 billion? That has always been, is and will be my issue. I've no issue getting these people off the dole , the question is how , in a way that won't result in massive collateral damage

If they are on the dole 5 years, give them a year to get off the dole, if they don't give them the option of community service or reduce their dole payments each year.
For example my best friend would be straight away back in employment if welfare wasn't more of a benefit to him (he turned down multiple good jobs including one with me).

LeinsterDub

deceit wrote: »

If they are on the dole 5 years, give them a year to get off the dole, if they don't give them the option of community service or reduced their dole payments each year.
For example my best friend would be straight away back in employment if welfare wasn't more of a benefit to him (he turned down multiple good jobs including one with me).

Fair enough with two provisos
a) we put in place proper mental health checks to ensure we aren't forcing with underlying issues into work
b) some scheme is put in place to limit the impact on their dependants

Eric Cartman

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Fair enough with two provisos
a) we put in place proper mental health checks to ensure we aren't forcing with underlying issues into work
b) some scheme is put in place to limit the impact on their dependants

Theres more mental illness and addiction caused by leaving people at home all day. This business of allowing people with unproved / mild mental illness to sit at home and do nothing except get worse really needs to be overhauled. Everyone of working age should have a job, some work to do, we can tailor jobs to peoples abilities or disabilities but there should be no section of society who dont want to or are not working for any extended period

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Fair enough with two provisos
a) we put in place proper mental health checks to ensure we aren't forcing with underlying issues into work
b) some scheme is put in place to limit the impact on their dependants

So on B, what do you mean by this?

deceit

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Fair enough with two provisos
a) we put in place proper mental health checks to ensure we aren't forcing with underlying issues into work
b) some scheme is put in place to limit the impact on their dependants

As a child I would have been one that would have been in a family with technically both of these, my dad was/is a gambling addict and a professional bum, spent most of his life coming up with ways of not giving the taxman money. Luckily for me my mam is a very hard worker and I choose my male role models elsewhere.
By putting these in place you would be not fixing the issue and would just be making it worse or at the very least keeping it the same.

People with medical disabilities would be different but as far as I'm aware they are not dealt with in the same vain as job seekers?

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Theres more mental illness and addiction caused by leaving people at home all day. This business of allowing people with unproved / mild mental illness to sit at home and do nothing except get worse really needs to be overhauled. Everyone of working age should have a job, some work to do, we can tailor jobs to peoples abilities or disabilities but there should be no section of society who dont want to or are not working for any extended period

It would be a trained medical professional which you are not. See when you say overhauled you of course mean stick them on the street sweeping and that's the problem solved as far as you could care. It may help some but isn't going to help others but you're true mentality shows in a line like this 'Everyone of working age should have a job, some work to do' this is of course absolute undeluded nonsense, there are of course some people can’t work and will never be able to work.

LeinsterDub

deceit wrote: »

As a child I would have been one that would have been in a family with technically both of these, my dad was/is a gambling addict and a professional bum, spent most of his life coming up with ways of not giving the taxman money. Luckily for me my mam is a very hard worker and I choose my male role models elsewhere.
By putting these in place you would be not fixing the issue and would just be making it worse or at the very least keeping it the same.

People with medical disabilities would be different but as far as I'm aware they are not dealt with in the same vain as job seekers?

So we shouldn't attempt to help the mentally ill , is that your argument?

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So on B, what do you mean by this?

School supplies to be free to the child , school meals , perhaps some clothing allowance

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

School supplies to be free to the child , school meals , perhaps some clothing allowance

Sorry Im confused. SO you put someone to work, they are getting paid but you dont want them to use that money on dependants?

deceit

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So we shouldn't attempt to help the mentally ill , is that your argument?

My argument is true mentally ill people would be on medial disability rather than job seekers.

Shefwedfan

deceit wrote: »

My argument is true mentally ill people would be on medial disability rather than job seekers.

Which you are correct, the poster will go around in circles now so expect it

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sorry Im confused. SO you put someone to work, they are getting paid but you dont want them to use that money on dependants?

No, I was answering a question regarding the reduction of welfare payments after 5 years

Eric Cartman

deceit wrote: »

My argument is true mentally ill people would be on medial disability rather than job seekers.

And that payment should not be in cash due to the high liability of develloping an alcohol, drug or gambling addiction and should involve meetings with mental health professionals on a routine basis

LeinsterDub

deceit wrote: »

My argument is true mentally ill people would be on medial disability rather than job seekers.

Which is why a simple check would do no harm right?

ELM327

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Theres more mental illness and addiction caused by leaving people at home all day. This business of allowing people with unproved / mild mental illness to sit at home and do nothing except get worse really needs to be overhauled. Everyone of working age should have a job, some work to do, we can tailor jobs to peoples abilities or disabilities but there should be no section of society who dont want to or are not working for any extended period

I have ASD and quite severe anxiety and social issues to go with it. I also suffer bouts of depression which need to be treated medically.



Doesnt stop me being gainfully employed rather than sitting at home suckling at the taxpayers proverbial teat.


Her indoors has bipolar, again, with medication as needed, she is also gainfully employed.


Some people use diagnoses of mental health issues as a way to avoid work and live the gravy train.

deceit

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And that payment should not be in cash due to the high liability of develloping an alcohol, drug or gambling addiction and should involve meetings with mental health professionals on a routine basis

I'm not going to pretend to know what way mental health professionals should deal with people like this, that would be for them to decide but my point is that they would not be included as part of my suggestions and never were.
Dole bums/scroungers are the ones I've highlighted, most people on the dole would not be affected by what happens to these people either.

As I've said I believe social welfare plays a very important part in our country and should be used as a safety net, it should not be allowed to be used as a lifestyle choice. I don't think any sane person would disagree with this?

Shefwedfan

I dont want to go into details but family members suffer from different illness's.....all of them are working and have always worked.

The problem with putting in regulations and put a "but if they have mental illness" is all the people with no interest of working will walk in tomorrow and say they have a mental illness

Instead of putting in a comment like that, I would expect as part of the process to have mental health people available to review cases. I think they are already in place. Not give people a target to hit so to speak.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

I have ASD and quite severe anxiety and social issues to go with it. I also suffer bouts of depression which need to be treated medically.



Doesnt stop me being gainfully employed rather than sitting at home suckling at the taxpayers proverbial teat.


Her indoors has bipolar, again, with medication as needed, she is also gainfully employed.


Some people use diagnoses of mental health issues as a way to avoid work and live the gravy train.

you ll probably also know then that up to 80% of us on the spectrum end up in long term unemployment!

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont want to go into details but family members suffer from different illness's.....all of them are working and have always worked.

The problem with putting in regulations and put a "but if they have mental illness" is all the people with no interest of working will walk in tomorrow and say they have a mental illness

Instead of putting in a comment like that, I would expect as part of the process to have mental health people available to review cases. I think they are already in place. Not give people a target to hit so to speak.

the problem is that already happens. The amount of people who have minor issues, recluse themselves from society and treat those issues with drink and drugs and then are actually unable to work is staggering. A mandatory intervention by a mental health professional and no access to cash to develop these addictions isn't the softest kindest way to deal with this but it would definitely stop a lot of people falling through the cracks. Myself I know of multiple people who started using cannabis and alcohol to deal with minor issues like breakups or failing a college course etc... who haven't done anything in years because they're so entrenched in a reclusive addiction cycle. We will be funding those people until the day they die, and the mental health services available are only for those who want help, most of these people would rather roll the joint and crack the can because its a hell of a lot easier.

PhilOssophy

Thread is TLDR, but 2 points
1. German tax rates are absolutely eye-watering. For what they pay I'd be expecting to pay for little else.
2. Michael O'Leary wasn't born into money, yes he went to Clongowes but there are plenty of hard-working people out there who aren't rich who send their children to these schools. I am sure they worked their asses off to get to a point where they could do so - good on them. and MOL himself has worked his ass off to get to where he is.

It is not a crime to aspire to giving your kids a good education. I intend sending my kids to the best school I can afford too and will work my ass off to do so.

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you ll probably also know then that up to 80% of us on the spectrum end up in long term unemployment!

Up to 80% of statistics are made up on the spot too.


As we all know, ASD is a spectrum, ranging from nerds who are super logical but have social issues - like myself - to people who are non verbal and live in care homes, and all in between.

LeinsterDub

ELM327 wrote: »

I have ASD and quite severe anxiety and social issues to go with it. I also suffer bouts of depression which need to be treated medically.



Doesnt stop me being gainfully employed rather than sitting at home suckling at the taxpayers proverbial teat.


Her indoors has bipolar, again, with medication as needed, she is also gainfully employed.


Some people use diagnoses of mental health issues as a way to avoid work and live the gravy train.

And some people can't actually work

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the problem is that already happens. The amount of people who have minor issues, recluse themselves from society and treat those issues with drink and drugs and then are actually unable to work is staggering. A mandatory intervention by a mental health professional and no access to cash to develop these addictions isn't the softest kindest way to deal with this but it would definitely stop a lot of people falling through the cracks. Myself I know of multiple people who started using cannabis and alcohol to deal with minor issues like breakups or failing a college course etc... who haven't done anything in years because they're so entrenched in a reclusive addiction cycle. We will be funding those people until the day they die, and the mental health services available are only for those who want help, most of these people would rather roll the joint and crack the can because its a hell of a lot easier.

The mental health services in this country are a joke thanks to your ilk and the cut everything brigade

LeinsterDub

ELM327 wrote: »

Up to 80% of statistics are made up on the spot too.


As we all know, ASD is a spectrum, ranging from nerds who are super logical but have social issues - like myself - to people who are non verbal and live in care homes, and all in between.

Eric wants those in the care homes put to work