Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

Up to 80% of statistics are made up on the spot too.


As we all know, ASD is a spectrum, ranging from nerds who are super logical but have social issues - like myself - to people who are non verbal and live in care homes, and all in between.

these are known as facts from the spectrum community, you should probably get out and meet some people on the spectrum who experience these issues, also chat to the professionals working in the field, they will confirm these issues. many people on the spectrum who have worked, end up dealing with more complex issues such as ptsd from employment, these are not excuses to those that have complex disorders such as asd, that remain unemployed, these in fact are real serious problems, and disturbingly, our health care system isnt equipped to deal with them, resulting in people with complex disorders remaining in long term unemployment, with their complex psychological issues being largely ignored.

ELM327

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And some people can't actually work

And if they genuinely can't then they will be entitled to disability. Of course. As it should be.

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont want to go into details but family members suffer from different illness's.....all of them are working and have always worked.

The problem with putting in regulations and put a "but if they have mental illness" is all the people with no interest of working will walk in tomorrow and say they have a mental illness

Instead of putting in a comment like that, I would expect as part of the process to have mental health people available to review cases. I think they are already in place. Not give people a target to hit so to speak.

Which is basically what I said but worded differently and longer .

LeinsterDub

ELM327 wrote: »

And if they genuinely can't then they will be entitled to disability. Of course. As it should be.

Which is what I said.

saabsaab

Geuze wrote: »

A 10% tax on assets above 10k??

Nobody would ever agree to that.

Even the biggest supporters of wealth taxes would not agree.

Savings and bonds, I doubt many would agree to it either and if it had to be done as in a war/emergency situation as a once off it would have to be done overnight without warning to stop capital flight. It could be softened by a Government bond for the amount say repayable over 5-10 years.

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

these are known as facts from the spectrum community, you should probably get out and meet some people on the spectrum who experience these issues, also chat to the professionals working in the field, they will confirm these issues. many people on the spectrum who have worked, end up dealing with more complex issues such as ptsd from employment, these are not excuses to those that have complex disorders such as asd, that remain unemployed, these in fact are real serious problems, and disturbingly, our health care system isnt equipped to deal with them, resulting in people with complex disorders remaining in long term unemployment, with their complex psychological issues being largely ignored.

My niece has ASD. I've spoken to many professionals (trust me!) about ASD.
As I said above, if you are on the spectrum (or any other mental illness) to the point where you cannot look after yourself then of course you cannot work and will be funded from central taxation under disability.


I can't see anywhere that I have not clung fast to that tenet.

ELM327

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The mental health services in this country are a joke thanks to your ilk and the cut everything brigade

Outside of Dublin I agree they are a joke.
But we have the highest per capita spendings on health in the world. It's not a money issue.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Eric wants those in the care homes put to work

If he does (and I assume it's a big if) then it might be one of the few times I'd disagree with him. I see him post a lot here on political issues and generally I'm 100% in agreement with most of his views but there's no reason to try make someone in a care home work if they do not vhave the ability!

Shefwedfan

saabsaab wrote: »

Savings and bonds, I doubt many would agree to it either and if it had to be done as in a war/emergency situation as a once off it would have to be done overnight without warning to stop capital flight. It could be softened by a Government bond for the amount say repayable over 5-10 years.

Really


So overnight a government will go into peoples accounts and take 10% without and prior knowledge or agreement?



You will have a war/emergency situation after that alright.....


The mind boggles on how you came up with that idea! I guess you have very little saving so wont get affected

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

My niece has ASD. I've spoken to many professionals (trust me!) about ASD.
As I said above, if you are on the spectrum (or any other mental illness) to the point where you cannot look after yourself then of course you cannot work and will be funded from central taxation under disability.


I can't see anywhere that I have not clung fast to that tenet.

you dismissed the fact, 'up to 80% of people on the spectrum end up in long term unemployment'! many of our employment environments are simply not equipped to deal with the complexities of complex disorders such as developmental disorders, many employers would run a mile if you mentioned you had such disorders, best of luck with getting passed the interview stage if you happen to mention this! many of these individuals are in fact capable of working, but are employers willing to take them on!

Eric Cartman

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The mental health services in this country are a joke thanks to your ilk and the cut everything brigade

none of my 'ilk' or the 'cut everything brigade' have ever been in power here. Your blame should lie originally with the Catholic Church who ran the hospitals and subsequently with the civil servants in the health boards and then HSE, backed by their unions , funnelling money into their own pockets at the expense of providing a decent service.

Eric Cartman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you dismissed the fact, 'up to 80% of people on the spectrum end up in long term unemployment'! many of our employment environments are simply not equipped to deal with the complexities of complex disorders such as developmental disorders, many employers would run a mile if you mentioned you had such disorders, best of luck with getting passed the interview stage if you happen to mention this! many of these individuals are in fact capable of working, but are employers willing to take them on!

I would regularly interact with maybe 80-90 people who work as software developers, be it on site or remote. Id say theres maybe 3 who are not on the spectrum or hide it really well , all of them through differing degrees work and hold down jobs just fine and most employers in the IT / software world make a lot of allowances for the complexities of exactly these disorders.

saabsaab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Really


So overnight a government will go into peoples accounts and take 10% without and prior knowledge or agreement?



You will have a war/emergency situation after that alright.....


The mind boggles on how you came up with that idea! I guess you have very little saving so wont get affected

Yes, it's called expropriation. I would be affected too but if I could get it back in the future and the economy stays afloat then everyone would ultimately benefit .

Wanderer78

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I would regularly interact with maybe 80-90 people who work as software developers, be it on site or remote. Id say theres maybe 3 who are not on the spectrum or hide it really well , all of them through differing degrees work and hold down jobs just fine and most employers in the IT / software world make a lot of allowances for the complexities of exactly these disorders.

again, up to 80% of those on the spectrum experience long term unemployment! fact!!!!!! not all those with asd have an interest or abilities to work in the it sector, such as myself, in my world, coding is astonishingly boring. i will admit, the it sector does indeed seem to be very accommodating to those on the spectrum, some in fact only wanting to employ those on the spectrum.

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, up to 80% of those on the spectrum experience long term unemployment! fact!!!!!! not all those with asd have an interest or abilities to work in the it sector, such as myself, in my world, coding is astonishingly boring. i will admit, the it sector does indeed seem to be very accommodating to those on the spectrum, some in fact only wanting to employ those on the spectrum.

My team - cross continents - are predominantly on ASD spectrum or similar.
I work in risk and data analytics.


I have ASD, how did I get the job? And get repeated promotions?

LeinsterDub

ELM327 wrote: »

Outside of Dublin I agree they are a joke.
But we have the highest per capita spendings on health in the world. It's not a money issue.

If he does (and I assume it's a big if) then it might be one of the few times I'd disagree with him. I see him post a lot here on political issues and generally I'm 100% in agreement with most of his views but there's no reason to try make someone in a care home work if they do not vhave the ability!

They are a joke in Dublin too, more so in the country but as you say that's not a money issue.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Everyone of working age should have a job, some work to do, we can tailor jobs to peoples abilities or disabilities

LeinsterDub

ELM327 wrote: »

My team - cross continents - are predominantly on ASD spectrum or similar.
I work in risk and data analytics.


I have ASD, how did I get the job? And get repeated promotions?

Do you really need or want someone to explain to you that because you can do something doesn't mean someone else can?

ELM327

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Do you really need or want someone to explain to you that because you can do something doesn't mean someone else can?

No, I'm commenting on the ridiculousness of the 80% quoted

LeinsterDub

ELM327 wrote: »

No, I'm commenting on the ridiculousness of the 80% quoted

We surveyed over 2,000 autistic adults, or people responding on their behalf, to ask them about their experiences of finding and keeping a job. They told us:

only 16% are in full-time paid work. Only 32% are in some kind of paid work (full and part-time combined), compared to 47% of disabled people and 80% of non-disabled people

https://www.autism.org.uk/get-involved/media-centre/news/2016-10-27-employment-gap.aspx

Ryan told Inspirefest 2018: “Approximately 80pc of people who are on the autism spectrum [in Ireland] are unemployed.”

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/autistic-workers-talent-potential-specialisterne-inspirefest

So why is it ridiculous?

Cordell

Lads, it's very simple, when the state needs money then they raid the pensions and tax the poor and working class. This is where the money is, at the 99%, a small bit from everyone makes a huge steady chunk. Also it's easy to grab. This is what happen last time, remember?

Taxing wealth does not work, and only serves as a political statement and maybe give some a warm fuzzy feeling of social justice. Just the feeling, no actual justice to go with it. But when they rally need the money they always go with option 1.

Shefwedfan

saabsaab wrote: »

Yes, it's called expropriation. I would be affected too but if I could get it back in the future and the economy stays afloat then everyone would ultimately benefit .

Expropriation is the act of a government claiming privately owned property against the wishes of the owners, ostensibly to be used for the benefit of the overall public.



I see nothing about going in and taking people savings!!! I very much doubt you will be affected, sounds similar to your proposed car tax, get someone else to pay for your car.

Eric Cartman

Cordell wrote: »

Lads, it's very simple, when the state needs money then they raid the pensions and tax the poor and working class. This is where the money is, at the 99%, a small bit from everyone makes a huge steady chunk. Also it's easy to grab. This is what happen last time, remember?

Taxing wealth does not work, and only serves as a political statement and maybe give some a warm fuzzy feeling of social justice. Just the feeling, no actual justice to go with it. But when they rally need the money they always go with option 1.

no they don't , they absolutely don't . During the last recession nobody on JSA , the state pension , child benefit or lone parents suffered one iota. The middle class and high earners are always the sponge that gets squeezed more.

Shefwedfan

Cordell wrote: »

Lads, it's very simple, when the state needs money then they raid the pensions and tax the poor and working class. This is where the money is, at the 99%, a small bit from everyone makes a huge steady chunk. Also it's easy to grab. This is what happen last time, remember?

Taxing wealth does not work, and only serves as a political statement and maybe give some a warm fuzzy feeling of social justice. Just the feeling, no actual justice to go with it. But when they rally need the money they always go with option 1.

Tax the poor?



People losing the plot here because I suggested that people on social welfare pay the rent for the house they live in.

saabsaab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Expropriation is the act of a government claiming privately owned property against the wishes of the owners, ostensibly to be used for the benefit of the overall public.



I see nothing about going in and taking people savings!!! I very much doubt you will be affected, sounds similar to your proposed car tax, get someone else to pay for your car.

Since you brought it up car tax as it stands is paying for others motoring. I can't do anything about your doubting it but it would affect many including me.

Cordell

Eric Cartman wrote: »

no they don't , they absolutely don't . During the last recession nobody on JSA , the state pension , child benefit or lone parents suffered one iota. The middle class and high earners are always the sponge that gets squeezed more.

Child benefit was cut and a levy was applied on pensions.
But I was wrong in using the working class as a general term for people working for a wage no matter how big that wage is, when we actually know what working class means these days
I was trying to say the same, "middle class and high earners are always the sponge that gets squeezed more", not the wealthy.

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

no they don't , they absolutely don't . During the last recession nobody on JSA , the state pension , child benefit or lone parents suffered one iota. The middle class and high earners are always the sponge that gets squeezed more.

You can't get blood from a stone and you can't get money from those who don't have it

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Expropriation is the act of a government claiming privately owned property against the wishes of the owners, ostensibly to be used for the benefit of the overall public.



I see nothing about going in and taking people savings!!! I very much doubt you will be affected, sounds similar to your proposed car tax, get someone else to pay for your car.

Motor tax doesn't cover anywhere near the cost of motoring it's costs are externalise to the whole population

TheCitizen

rn wrote: »

This post pretty much hits the weakest in society, hardest.

Yeah and look at all the thanks it got. Strange, I bet most of them aren't in the wealthy bracket either, they just like to attack "the left"

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Tax the poor?



People losing the plot here because I suggested that people on social welfare pay the rent for the house they live in.

Quote one post please.

Eric Cartman

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You can't get blood from a stone and you can't get money from those who don't have it

which is why we can't get professionals who emigrated to return here, they regularly leave and any tax increases for covid will further enhance the brain drain thats been going on in our society. the middle class and high earners are tapped out in the country with the worlds narrowest tax base.

Shefwedfan

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yeah and look at all the thanks it got. Strange, I bet most of them aren't in the wealthy bracket either, they just like to attack "the left"

What has "the left" got to do with anything?