Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

those in the middle are not known as " the hated middle class " for nothing


the rich always have the ear of power and the so called vulnerable are very well represented by media and countless quangos

The most vulnerable they are called.. with their foreva homes and ample welfare, medical cards, often working on the side or father pretending to live elsewhere.

Wanderer78

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And thats great thats one bank, a bank that strategically targets high net wealth individuals for deposits and investments and does not get involved in retail mortgages and unsecured loans for ordinary punters.

There are different kind of banks, the vast majority of retail banks that underwrite residential mortgages and unsecured loans and take your grannies pension on deposit operate on a fractional reserve.

fractional reserve banking is a myth, the papers mentioned before confirm this, loans are never used as a part of the process, they are simply held as reserves

Eric Cartman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fractional reserve banking is a myth, the papers mentioned before confirm this, loans are never used as a part of the process, they are simply held as reserves

70% of the US has none or under 1000 dollars in savings, only 15% has over 10,000 dollars , you couldnt possibly operate retail banking without a fractional reserve model

Wanderer78

Eric Cartman wrote: »

70% of the US has none or under 1000 dollars in savings, only 15% has over 10,000 dollars , you couldnt possibly operate retail banking without a fractional reserve model

....and welcome to world of credit, hence why debt levels are current at an all time high, in particular private debt levels!

Eric Cartman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....and welcome to world of credit, hence why debt levels are current at an all time high, in particular private debt levels!

Correct, and that credit ends up on a loan book, which is why you need fractional reserve banking so you can give credit cards and car loans out at will even with only a tiny amount on deposit

markodaly

KyussB wrote: »

Even when I twice cite two different central banks saying exactly what I said

Nope, the CB's you referenced are about money creation, not dismissing the theory of 'Capital Flight' or 'Brain Drains' on a country.

Two very very different things.

Everything you disagree with is (in words you have used) Communist, Nazi, merely 'theory' - even when it's just basic macroeconomics as described by central banks.

When exactly did I use the word Communit or Nazi?

KyussB

markodaly wrote: »

...not dismissing the theory of 'Capital Flight' or 'Brain Drains' on a country.

Which nobody argued...

JimmyVik

I love how people spend their time trying to think of ways to get other people to pay more tax.

Eric Cartman

Ninja Moose wrote: »

Banks do not lend out multiples of their customers' deposits. If anyone would like to prove me wrong find an example of a bank where the loan book is multiples of the customers' deposits, use the figures from the bank's balance sheet.

https://inquiries.oireachtas.ie/banking/volume-1-report/chapter-1/

every major retail bank in Ireland 2002-2008

Until 2015 banks had more loans out than deposits in .


https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/statistics/data-and-analysis/credit-and-banking-statistics/bank-balance-sheets/money-and-banking-statistics-september-2018.pdf?sfvrsn=5

KyussB

^^ Those graphs actually help disprove both the idea of deposits being loaned out, and of a multiple of deposits being loaned out - as they demonstrate there is no link between loans and fixed ratio of deposits.

Eric Cartman

KyussB wrote: »

^^ Those graphs actually help disprove both the idea of deposits being loaned out, and of a multiple of deposits being loaned out - as they demonstrate there is no link between loans and fixed ratio of deposits.

but thats not what we were talking about, your aunt mauras 5 grand savings aren't loaned out to buy little billy a car , my argument was and still is that banks regularly outloan what they have on deposit, fractional reserve banking as its called.

KyussB

That is what we're talking about though, just with different terms. The idea of the Money Multiplier = Fractional Reserve Banking = Loanable Funds Theory - all the same thing.

Banks are not limited by deposits, when giving out loans - not by fractional reserve, not by a multiplier - they are primarily limited by collateral requirements (assets - houses/cars etc., tied to a loan, in case it's defaulted on), and by regulations - but not by deposits.

FVP3

JimmyVik wrote: »

I love how people spend their time trying to think of ways to get other people to pay more tax.

You are right, Jimmy the middle income groups should pay it all and know their place.

FVP3

Anyway when it comes to paying for this crisis we have not that many options. They are, pretty much:

1) Euro bonds, helicopter money, MMT or similar.
2) Increase the tax on the existing taxpayer middle income chump.
3) Reduce the dole for people who are now on it ( not the 350 tapering off, but reducing the dole in general), and all social welfare. Austerity redux.
4) Tax the rich.

Or a combination of all 4 I suppose.

What we have seen here is that the belief of the average poster, firmly middle income himself, on these ideas is:


1) Euro bonds, helicopter money, MMT or similar.

Totally opposed. Sounds like funny money to the average poster here. Also Mao and Stalin get a look in occasionally.

2) Tax the existing taxpayer middle income chump.

Not happy with this, but expects it to happen or has suggested no other alternative except the unpolitically acceptable reduction of dole.

3) Reduce the dole for people who are now on it ( not the 350 tapering off but the dole in general). And all social welfare. Austerity redux.

Supports 3 but it is hardly politically likely that a government caused recession is going to see the hundreds of thousands unemployed, through no fault of their own, see welfare payments reduced. Nor will reducing wages for the public sector work as that would involve reducing the wages of nurses and other covid frontline workers. It might happen out of necessity but it wont be popular.

4) Tax the rich.

Totally and absolutely opposed to this. No way jose. Even if it reduces the burden on the middle income groups. Not going to happen. No way. Up the Rich. It would be like Stalinism, Maoism and Venezuelan socialism. We'd be eating birds until there were no more birds. Like in the Chinese famine.


it seems therefore that the solution to this crisis, we are mostly all agreed on boards, is to tax middle income groups more, as per. Great work guys.

JimmyVik

FVP3 wrote: »

You are right, Jimmy the middle income groups should pay it all and know their place.

How about everyone who earns > €1000 more than me pays an extra 5% tax.
And just to show im not attacking just the rich, everyone who earns > €1000 less than me pays an extra 5% too.

Shefwedfan

JimmyVik wrote: »

How about everyone who earns > €1000 more than me pays an extra 5% tax.
And just to show im not attacking just the rich, everyone who earns > €1000 less than me pays an extra 5% too.

I agree


Since the start of the thread it is post after post of people saynig everyone else buy them should pay extra tax :P

JimmyVik

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I agree
Since the start of the thread it is post after post of people saynig everyone else buy them should pay extra tax :P

I saw a great idea on youtube a year or so ago. Looks like its a very common problem where people look for someone else to pay tax increases.

It would be perfect for times like this.


1 - Government adds a voluntary tax of 5% to all of your income. All the way from €0 to up to the top. You can opt out easily if you want.


2 - If you stay opted in you get a dated card that says you are paying the extra 5% tax. You get a new card for each full year you have paid.


3 - Anyone who cannot show you a valid card that they are paying this tax for this can just STFU and get back in your hole when it comes to asking for more taxes for others.

KyussB

4: Make the card tradable at the face value of the tax paid, and able to be used for paying down the same amount in tax in future years :pac: (could call them 'Tax Anticipation Notes'...)

Shefwedfan

JimmyVik wrote: »

I saw a great idea on youtube a year or so ago. Looks like its a very common problem where people look for someone else to pay tax increases.

It would be perfect for times like this.


1 - Government adds a voluntary tax of 5% to all of your income. All the way from €0 to up to the top. You can opt out easily if you want.


2 - If you stay opted in you get a dated card that says you are paying the extra 5% tax. You get a new card for each full year you have paid.


3 - Anyone who cannot show you a valid card that they are paying this tax for this can just STFU and get back in your hole when it comes to asking for more taxes for others.

Would never work, you had one posted on the motor forum who kept putting up thread after thread about changing the car tax system...more or less wanted a tax system which suited him and nobody else.....that is how people view taxes......change it to reduce tax for them and increase fo reveryone else

FVP3

JimmyVik wrote: »

How about everyone who earns > €1000 more than me pays an extra 5% tax.
And just to show im not attacking just the rich, everyone who earns > €1000 less than me pays an extra 5% too.

Yeh, definitely not the rich then. Like literal turkeys voting for christmas. A servile race, O'Connell called us. Bowing down before the masters, cap in hand.

FVP3

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I agree


Since the start of the thread it is post after post of people saynig everyone else buy them should pay extra tax :P

yeh, the rich. So you, not being rich, would pay less. Or at least not pay more for this ciris. How the **** does this annoy you?

Seriously a cretinous servile race we are. I mean at least you could try an economic argument ( maybe the rich would flee) but the only arugment is "dont be bothering the rich. I'll pay more".

LuasSimon

A tax on new cars would be an easy one, a extra 1000 tax on any new car 202 and 21 cars next year.

Anyone buying a new car in the times ahead is really making a statement of "look how well off i am " to the rest of the population .

GreeBo

LuasSimon wrote: »

A tax on new cars would be an easy one, a extra 1000 tax on any new car 202 and 21 cars next year.

Anyone buying a new car in the times ahead is really making a statement of "look how well off i am " to the rest of the population .

Yep, that would do it alright.
(Assuming that "it" is collapse the motor trade?)

Galwayguy35

LuasSimon wrote: »

Anyone buying a new car in the times ahead is really making a statement of "look how well off i am " to the rest of the population .

Or maybe they need a good car to get them where they need to go.

I wonder are you a PBP supporter because you sound like one.

gary550

LuasSimon wrote: »

A tax on new cars would be an easy one, a extra 1000 tax on any new car 202 and 21 cars next year.

Anyone buying a new car in the times ahead is really making a statement of "look how well off i am " to the rest of the population .

Give your head a wobble mate

Since when did having a few bob become criminally offensive?

LuasSimon

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Or maybe they need a good car to get them where they need to go.

I wonder are you a PBP supporter because you sound like one.

A 15 or 16 car plenty good enough for any of us . Anyone well off enough to be buying a new car in the year ahead can we’ll afford extra tax rather than others existing

gary550

LuasSimon wrote: »

A 15 or 16 car plenty good enough for any of us . Anyone well off enough to be buying a new car in the year ahead can we’ll afford extra tax rather than others existing

Yeah if no one bought a brand new car you wouldn't be able to buy a used 15 or 16 car

Galwayguy35

LuasSimon wrote: »

A 15 or 16 car plenty good enough for any of us . Anyone well off enough to be buying a new car in the year ahead can we’ll afford extra tax rather than others existing

Wow.

Paul Murphy would be proud of you.

Eric Cartman

LuasSimon wrote: »

A tax on new cars would be an easy one, a extra 1000 tax on any new car 202 and 21 cars next year.

Anyone buying a new car in the times ahead is really making a statement of "look how well off i am " to the rest of the population .

Like VRT ?

LuasSimon

LuasSimon wrote: »

A 15 or 16 car plenty good enough for any of us.

A 4 or 5 year old car then. So they don't age?

I'm driving a 15 year old banger but i don't begrudge those who want to spend their money on a new car.