Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

Hubertj

LuasSimon wrote: »

A 15 or 16 car plenty good enough for any of us . Anyone well off enough to be buying a new car in the year ahead can we’ll afford extra tax rather than others existing

I don’t think emissions on older cars are good for the environment compared to newer cars that could be electric or hpev. Also if someone wants to buy a new car that is their decision.

GreeBo

gary550 wrote: »

Yeah if no one bought a brand new car you wouldn't be able to buy a used 15 or 16 car

LuasSimon wrote: »

A 15 or 16 car plenty good enough for any of us . Anyone well off enough to be buying a new car in the year ahead can we’ll afford extra tax rather than others existing

Go on Simon, explain where used cars come from if people don't buy new ones?
What I heard was that when a mommy car and a daddy car really love each other...

Shefwedfan

LuasSimon wrote: »

A 15 or 16 car plenty good enough for any of us . Anyone well off enough to be buying a new car in the year ahead can we’ll afford extra tax rather than others existing

This comment baffles me on so many levels

Cordell

LuasSimon wrote: »

A tax on new cars would be an easy one, a extra 1000 tax on any new car 202 and 21 cars next year.

Anyone buying a new car in the times ahead is really making a statement of "look how well off i am " to the rest of the population .

Out of a projected cost of 10 billions this will sort like 100 millions. Only 9900 remaining. Great stuff.

ELM327

LuasSimon wrote: »

A 15 or 16 car plenty good enough for any of us . Anyone well off enough to be buying a new car in the year ahead can we’ll afford extra tax rather than others existing

Well said comrade. It's our car not your car anyway.

Shefwedfan

Has anyone come up with a brilliant idea like putting tax onto petrol/diesel

Cordell

That won't work too well, the sales plummeted.
But, why not tax the savings people make by not driving? I'm saving like 40 a week in diesel, I still have some in the tank from before the lockdown, that's like a whole 300 euros just ripe to be taxed at 100%.

Pkiernan

Take all the money from people who work and give it to layabouts who don't.

That makes sense.

PBP politicians know how to spend my money better than I do.

Pkiernan

JimmyVik wrote: »

I saw a great idea on youtube a year or so ago. Looks like its a very common problem where people look for someone else to pay tax increases.

It would be perfect for times like this.


1 - Government adds a voluntary tax of 5% to all of your income. All the way from €0 to up to the top. You can opt out easily if you want.


2 - If you stay opted in you get a dated card that says you are paying the extra 5% tax. You get a new card for each full year you have paid.


3 - Anyone who cannot show you a valid card that they are paying this tax for this can just STFU and get back in your hole when it comes to asking for more taxes for others.

How about everyone starts off with the right to cast one vote at elections.

Then the more tax you pay, the more votes you can cast.
That would encourage our idle friends to work more do they could vote for far left policies!

FVP3

Lyan wrote: »

Nothing told people to go out and build, trade, develop, and innovate. Humans have universally done it, regardless of culture, since the intelligence for such ventures developed. Whether the results are positive or not is a matter of opinion, but I do believe the evidence we have shows laissez faire societies work best for increasing prosperity and reducing suffering over time.

You may want to google laissez faire and the irish famine.

FVP3

Pkiernan wrote: »

Take all the money from people who work and give it to layabouts who don't.

That makes sense.

PBP politicians know how to spend my money better than I do.

Oh jesus christ.

The sheer stupidity in this thread. By taxing the rich I, for one, mean a few thousand people at most who have millions or billions. Not the working man. You pay less.

As for the PBP, a rabble. Opposed to lots of tax increases, as it happens.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Wow.

Paul Murphy would be proud of you.

Paul murphy might have had to get a proper job if we taxed him, or his parents, enough.

Pkiernan wrote: »

How about everyone starts off with the right to cast one vote at elections.

Then the more tax you pay, the more votes you can cast.
That would encourage our idle friends to work more do they could vote for far left policies!

That would stop a lot of our billionaires from voting, although, to be fair they can influence policy with their money, so who needs votes.

Eric Cartman

at what exact number of gross income does somebody move from the squeezed middle into an evil rich person who deserves to have all their money taxed out of their pocket ?

GreeBo

Pkiernan wrote: »

PBP politicians know how to spend my money better than I do.

Not only that, they can somehow spend your money multiple times.

krissovo

FVP3 wrote: »

The sheer stupidity in this thread. By taxing the rich I, for one, mean a few thousand people at most who have millions or billions. Not the working man. You pay less.

You have a talent...... How you can claim other's stupidity and write an unbelievably stupid bonkers statement in a single sentence takes some beating.

The Robin Hood approach will not work, those who are wealthy do not have one big bank account, they have assets. These are a mix of investments, physical assets and normally on and off shore.

Yellow_Fern

FVP3 wrote: »

You may want to google laissez faire and the irish famine.

Protectionist corn laws prevented cheap food being imported played a huge role in the famine. The only argument I would point to is that the famine was also caused by the Cromwellian land seizes, one of the largest land thefts in Europe at the time. Free markets only work when people are free and private property is protected, unlike in colonial Ireland. The great hunger isn't an argument against free markets.

Geuze

At what threshold of wealth should the proposed wealth tax start?

1m?
10m?

Should it be based on gross wealth, or net wealth?

Should it differ according to the type of wealth? Property or financial assets?

Shefwedfan

FVP3 wrote: »

Oh jesus christ.

The sheer stupidity in this thread. By taxing the rich I, for one, mean a few thousand people at most who have millions or billions. Not the working man. You pay less.

As for the PBP, a rabble. Opposed to lots of tax increases, as it happens.

You what now?

biko

Have the thread figured out how to make the wealthy in Ireland pay for everything yet?

Shefwedfan

biko wrote: »

Have the thread figured out how to make the wealthy in Ireland pay for everything yet?

That's next week.



Well not the wealthy, just anyone that earns more to the specific poster

GreeBo

FVP3 wrote: »

Oh jesus christ.

The sheer stupidity in this thread. By taxing the rich I, for one, mean a few thousand people at most who have millions or billions. Not the working man.

So how much are you planing to raise from these people?
There are 78,000 people who, on paper have wealth of 1M or more, presumably a large number of these people are living in that wealth.

Lets say each one of them gives you 100K extra on top of what they are currently paying.
Thats just under 8bn.
In 2019 we collected 59Bn.
So we are at 67bn before you have removed "the working man" from the tax net.

You pay less

There are 2,361,200 people employed today in Ireland giving us that 59Bn.
You are saying that they are going to pay less now, so what does the 59Bn drop to?
If it drop by more than 8Bn (which is likely) then we are worse off. (its around 3,500 per person year or €300 a month)

Shefwedfan

GreeBo wrote: »

So how much are you planing to raise from these people?
There are 78,000 people who, on paper have wealth of 1M or more, presumably a large number of these people are living in that wealth.

Lets say each one of them gives you 100K extra on top of what they are currently paying.
Thats just under 8bn.
In 2019 we collected 59Bn.
So we are at 67bn before you have removed "the working man" from the tax net.




There are 2,361,200 people employed today in Ireland giving us that 59Bn.
You are saying that they are going to pay less now, so what does the 59Bn drop to?
If it drop by more than 8Bn (which is likely) then we are worse off.

I would expect maths is not a strong point of the poster

Cordell

In the real world extending the tax net down brought significantly more money to the state than any wealth tax. So we're first, then maybe corporation tax (huge mistake that is if it were to happen) and wealth tax if ever happens will be more like a social justice PR stunt.

Shefwedfan

If you touch the corporation tax you could send Ireland back into the 70's. Simple as that. Everyone leaving the country at 16/17 to work anywhere and then hope in 30 eyars to return home.

Have we not sweat blood and tears to get Ireland into a position that children can get jobs in Ireland without ruining it for them, just because the uusual spongers dont want to pay tax?

Bass Reeves

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would expect maths is not a strong point of the poster

No they are always good at maths 2+2=5, well 5 most of the time sometimes 6 or even 3 everbody knows its not 4......right

Geuze

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you touch the corporation tax you could send Ireland back into the 70's. Simple as that. Everyone leaving the country at 16/17 to work anywhere and then hope in 30 eyars to return home.

The thread is meant to be about a proposed wealth tax, not changes to CT?

Companies do not pay wealth taxes.

thegetawaycar

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you touch the corporation tax you could send Ireland back into the 70's. Simple as that. Everyone leaving the country at 16/17 to work anywhere and then hope in 30 eyars to return home.

Have we not sweat blood and tears to get Ireland into a position that children can get jobs in Ireland without ruining it for them, just because the uusual spongers dont want to pay tax?

The best part is most the people that complain, don't pay much tax once credits are taken into account, get HAP, GP/Medical card etc...

The lowest paid in Ireland pay a miniscule amount of tax which is one of the main reasons we enter the highest tax rate so early, the lowest paid actually get good provisions for the tax they put in and then if they lose jobs the gap from welfare to low paid isn't huge so it's an easier transition than the better paid losing their job.

A wealth tax sounds great in theory but it's an administrative disaster, is it based on assets, do you repay if someones assets drop in value lower than the invented threshold etc...

There's some low hanging fruit that could be tackled but would bring in small amounts in the grand schemes of things, lower the 183 days in the state needed to be liable for taxes here would be a start, tax REITs at the same rate regular landlords are taxed, stop child benefit at 3 kids, remove the doubling of child benefit for multiple births (as in twins get paid as if 4 kids) etc...

fliball123

Cordell wrote: »

That won't work too well, the sales plummeted.
But, why not tax the savings people make by not driving? I'm saving like 40 a week in diesel, I still have some in the tank from before the lockdown, that's like a whole 300 euros just ripe to be taxed at 100%.

OK well then can we get the extra paid out in electricity and shopping that has to be paid. FFS this is the problem with this country if someone gets an advantage someone else wants to tax the hell out of the advantage. Sure were we all not screening blue murder about the state of the environment now that there are no cars on the road you want to tax that..Why not tax each person 1 cent for each breath they take..Your suggestion is complete nonsense.

LuasSimon

It’s the likes of Larry Goodman worth 4 or 5 Billion that won’t pay his taxes in this country that we need a wealth tax for ! .... and then he has the neck to pay the vast majority of his staff minimum wage so they have nothing not to mind been able to pay tax themselves .

We will be like Russia with oligarch rich like Larry , Denis O brien , JP and a few hundred others paying no tax in this country and a narrow middle class and a large working poor / welfare class .

Shefwedfan

LuasSimon wrote: »

It’s the likes of Larry Goodman worth 4 or 5 Billion that won’t pay his taxes in this country that we need a wealth tax for ! .... and then he has the neck to pay the vast majority of his staff minimum wage so they have nothing not to mind been able to pay tax themselves .

We will be like Russia with oligarch rich like Larry , Denis O brien , JP and a few hundred others paying no tax in this country and a narrow middle class and a large working poor / welfare class .

So your not after the people buying new cars anymore?

Eric Cartman

thegetawaycar wrote: »

The best part is most the people that complain, don't pay much tax once credits are taken into account, get HAP, GP/Medical card etc...

The lowest paid in Ireland pay a miniscule amount of tax which is one of the main reasons we enter the highest tax rate so early, the lowest paid actually get good provisions for the tax they put in and then if they lose jobs the gap from welfare to low paid isn't huge so it's an easier transition than the better paid losing their job.

A wealth tax sounds great in theory but it's an administrative disaster, is it based on assets, do you repay if someones assets drop in value lower than the invented threshold etc...

There's some low hanging fruit that could be tackled but would bring in small amounts in the grand schemes of things, lower the 183 days in the state needed to be liable for taxes here would be a start, tax REITs at the same rate regular landlords are taxed, stop child benefit at 3 kids, remove the doubling of child benefit for multiple births (as in twins get paid as if 4 kids) etc...

Ive usually found, people who call for taxes on the rich (they normally decide who is rich by going to a few grand above what they think their final salary will be in life) are the ones who already benefit the most from all of the government services, they are the net detractors, the people for whom the state must give so they don't starve, the ones who's kids cannot be fully supported by them, the ones for whom cradle to grave, the invisible hand of government was there to support them in some way.

meanwhile those who actually are net contributors and even worse, the job creators , who take almost nothing out of the system and the system takes almost everything out of them , so much as pipe up about how unfair the marginal rate is, how stupidly narrow the tax band is here and its pitchforks at 2pm from those who are on the take side of the balance.