Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

Antares35

Here we go again. Another "that person has money and should give it to everyone else" thread...

antix80

salonfire wrote: »

I know capitalism's fantastic isn't it.

Even by doing nothing, with smart investments you can have additional sources of income.

I'm not against a vacant property tax.

I know you were trying to prove a point, but dividends are already taxed and we also have capital gains tax.

As for investors not selling shares.. That's fine, the company they are holding shares in is paying corporation tax while creating employment.

suicide_circus

McGiver wrote: »

Whereas in Ireland - person who has contributed 5 years PRSI will get the same unemployment benefit as someone who has never worked for example. This is unfair and discourages employment. It must be changed.

Yep, it's utterly reprehensible. Morally bankrupt. You had a clown whinging on Joe Duffy that the 350 per week corona payment was higher than the 205 odd she was on plus her HAP, medical card, various allowances etc so you can imagine the reaction of the "most vulnerable in society" if workers who lost their jobs got paid 70-80% of their salaries. I can imagine some on the Irish left actually objecting to it.

Pkiernan

The OP should tighten his belt and give money to people less well off than him.

lalababa

An inheritance loophole: For decades the rich have had a simple inheritance tax loophole. ATM inheritance tax is around 33% on anything over around 300k.
Let's say x has 5 million in assets/cash that they want to leave to an offspring. In most cases 4.7 million would be taxed at 33% or a tax bill of 1.6 million.
X buys a farm for 5 million and some years later gifts it to offspring. Farm value re inheritance is 90% written off. So the 5 million farm is now valued at .5 million. The offspring pays tax on 500k-300k=200k@33%= 66k. This carry on of course helps keep land prices up. There are many other loopholes.

antix80

blackbox wrote: »

I don't see why people should be taxed on wealth that they have created, but unearned wealth (i.e. inheritance) is a different matter.

We have inheritance tax. The rich can avoid it.

I'd be in favour of a small, flat rate inheritance tax. Maybe register a charge against a property sooner than start making exceptions on paying the tax.

This is a UK article but makes a mockery of inheritance tax

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3735458/How-new-Duke-avoid-3billion-tax-bill-Family-trust-save-Westminsters-fortune-death-duties.html

Blazer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Start at bottom and work way up

Social welfare:
Shut down the never ending child allowance, 3-4 kids, don’t care but Pick a max and stop, want anymore pay for them yourself
Christmas bonus gone
Stop at source rent for council houses, fix that then come back

They’re going to have to. Nows the best time for it.
They can’t keep handing out money to people with so many people losing their jobs. 2021 budget should state that from 2022 all future child payment are limited to 2 children not including families currently in receipt of it. Not means tested, you just don’t get extra money past 2.

We need to encourage more people into skilled jobs and focus more on higher education also.

PhilOssophy

I know a couple, both working, who bought a 1-bed apartment in 2006, they now have 2 kids and are still living in the same 1-bed apartment and still working.
Meanwhile in the same estate, there are people doing f all but sitting around scrounging off the state living in 3 bedroom houses with everything laid out for them.
This is the injustice of our society that has to stop, not taxing people who are successful or who study and work their bolix off and earn their own living.

Thelonious Monk

Blazer wrote: »

They’re going to have to. Nows the best time for it.
They can’t keep handing out money to people with so many people losing their jobs. 2021 budget should state that from 2022 all future child payment are limited to 2 children not including families currently in receipt of it. Not means tested, you just don’t get extra money past 2.

We need to encourage more people into skilled jobs and focus more on higher education also.

The flaw with this child support thing is that people will have more kids anyway, and those kids in poor backgrounds are at an unfair disadvantage then by not getting any payments. Do you think some idiot like Mags Cash would have the discipline to stop after 2 kids? No, of course not. So as hard as it is to swallow, not paying her the child support for the extra kids would be unfair on the kids, who are innocent of any wrong doing.

Blazer

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The flaw with this child support thing is that people will have more kids anyway, and those kids in poor backgrounds are at an unfair disadvantage then by not getting any payments. Do you think some idiot like Mags Cash would have the discipline to stop after 2 kids? No, of course not. So as hard as it is to swallow, not paying her the child support for the extra kids would be unfair on the kids, who are innocent of any wrong doing.

No **** that. You’re creating an even bigger issue long term.
Do you think it’s fair on the peolple /children in the above example living in that apartment in the above post?

That’s the problem with society today. No one takes ownership of their issues. Instead it’s society’s fault, or that guy working his ass off to make €100k who pays a huge amount of it on tax but I don’t care about it because i should be given free money.
We need Governments to look at the damage they’re doing long term socially because we’re not holding people like Magaret Cash responsible for their choices.
What about the children waiting on treatment etc, sorry no you can’t have it because we’ve given all the money to other people because it wouldn’t be fair on their kids.
Balls to that.

LuasSimon

Seems wrong that people like Larry Goodman with a net worth of 3-4 Billion has so many of his employees in meat factories on minimum wage whilst he routes the substantial profits of these meat factories through Luxembourg to ensure he pays peanuts in tax and not even to this country .

Have these people any morals or decency ?? It’s this greed which has brought us to where we are ... he’s flying round in a helicopter and his staff are going round with the toes coming out through their shoes

Thelonious Monk

Blazer wrote: »

No **** that. You’re creating an even bigger issue long term.
Do you think it’s fair on the peolple /children in the above example living in that apartment in the above post?

That’s the problem with society today. No one takes ownership of their issues. Instead it’s society’s fault, or that guy working his ass off to make €100k who pays a huge amount of it on tax but I don’t care about it because i should be given free money.
We need Governments to look at the damage they’re doing long term socially because we’re not holding people like Magaret Cash responsible for their choices.
What about the children waiting on treatment etc, sorry no you can’t have it because we’ve given all the money to other people because it wouldn’t be fair on their kids.
Balls to that.

Well you're punishing the child who didn't ask to be born. This is why they will never cut child support for existing children, you're in cloudcuckooland if you think otherwise.

salonfire

LuasSimon wrote: »

Seems wrong that people like Larry Goodman with a net worth of 3-4 Billion has so many of his employees in meat factories on minimum wage whilst he routes the substantial profits of these meat factories through Luxembourg to ensure he pays peanuts in tax and not even to this country .

Have these people any morals or decency ?? It’s this greed which has brought us to where we are ... he’s flying round in a helicopter and his staff are going round with the toes coming out through their shoes

Seems wrong you have a roof over your head, clothes to dress yourself and food in your belly while the starving children of Africa have nothing.

So, tell us how much of your wealth are you donating to the starving children?

LeinsterDub

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Very recently a charter flight from Bulgaria brought in a plane load of fruit pickers
If people apply for those jobs and keep the money in Ireland we don't need any more taxes

Yeah that will solve the wealth divide. 150 more Irish citizens picking fruit. How much tax do you honestly think that would raise?

LeinsterDub

salonfire wrote: »

There is an obvious cohort of people in this country who are getting away with murder in terms of how much tax they pay, compared to other European countries.





The low paid.

Taxes should be increased at the lower bands to have those lower paid contribute more and tax credits reduced. The knock-on affect will see those middle and higher incomes pay slightly more as well.

I assume this is fine with you, OP?
Since you feel the wealthy are not paying their share, I'm sure you are as equally outraged at the others not paying their share as well, am I right?

Why don't you cut out the middle man and kick the poor in the face yourself?

Blazer

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well you're punishing the child who didn't ask to be born. This is why they will never cut child support for existing children, you're in cloudcuckooland if you think otherwise.

I never said cut it for existing children. That would be completely unfair.
I’m saying cut it for future children.
From 2022 if you have 2 or less children and you plan to or don’t plan to etc you won’t get children allowance for the third.

Magaret Cash can continue pumping out babies but her children down the road will know they can’t do the same or at least not get more money for it.

Thelonious Monk

Blazer wrote: »

I never said cut it for existing children. That would be completely unfair.
I’m saying cut it for future children.
From 2022 if you have 2 or less children and you plan to or don’t plan to etc you won’t get children allowance for the third.

Magaret Cash can continue pumping out babies but her children down the road will know they can’t do the same or at least not get more money for it.

I meant kids that were born after the threshold you are suggesting.
It just isn't fair if a child is born to not receive the same support as other children.
Do you honestly think they'd ever cut child support to some children but not others?

LeinsterDub

Blazer wrote: »

I never said cut it for existing children. That would be completely unfair.
I’m saying cut it for future children.
From 2022 if you have 2 or less children and you plan to or don’t plan to etc you won’t get children allowance for the third.

Magaret Cash can continue pumping out babies but her children down the road will know they can’t do the same or at least not get more money for it.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp4hf/cp4hf/fmls/
This would disproportionately hit the married and long term couples.
This is typical of right wing rhetoric. Punish the vast majority because a tiny minority are abusing the system.

Rodin

What do we do with the takings from a wealth tax?

Redirect to social welfare and healthcare?
Both bills are too high.

People are far too dependent on the state

Yellow_Fern

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp4hf/cp4hf/fmls/
This would disproportionately hit the married and long term couples.
This is typical of right wing rhetoric. Punish the vast majority because a tiny minority are abusing the system.

Well many environmentalists would be against child benefit. Personally I am against it. Work should be rewarded. Having kids isnt work. Its life fulfiment.

Jizique

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Yeah that will solve the wealth divide. 150 more Irish citizens picking fruit. How much tax do you honestly think that would raise?

None, because one of the big challenges here is the low level of tax paid by low paid workers, unlike their counterparts in other European countries like the “evil” Germans and the saintly Scandis, yet they expect the same standard of public services as in those countries.

Wanderer78

Rodin wrote: »

What do we do with the takings from a wealth tax?

Redirect to social welfare and healthcare?
Both bills are too high.

People are far too dependent on the state

have you ever actually spent anytime on the dole? have you had a loved one die, that may have been saved, if we had a better funded health care system?

Rodin

Wanderer78 wrote: »

have you ever actually spent anytime on the dole? have you had a loved one die, that may have been saved, if we had a better funded health care system?

Spent 2 weeks on the dole at 18.
Ill never forget the sense of shame walking up to that door and having to be answerable to someone I was smarter than about what efforts I was doing to find work before I got my money.
Haven't been on dole since 20 years on.

The biggest issue with the health service is the cost.
Have you taken a look at society recently?
Up until Covid, obesity and sloth is the biggest challenge facing public health.
Far too many are a drain on the public purse. That money would be better spent on people who have just got unlucky with their health.

The management of chronic diseases like Type 2 diabetes is crippling healthcare systems.

The Emergency depts around the country are empty. Doesn't that tell you that many people attend there who don't need to be there normally. This adds to waiting times.

Thelonious Monk

Rodin wrote: »

Spent 2 weeks on the dole at 18.
Ill never forget the sense of shame walking up to that door and having to be answerable to someone I was smarter than about what efforts I was doing to find work before I got my money.
Haven't been on dole since 20 years on.

Jasus get over yourself

Shefwedfan

rn wrote: »

This post pretty much hits the weakest in society, hardest.

My post asked to shut down people having over 4 kids unless they can afford it. How is that hittest the weakest? if they are the weakest the last thing they should be doing is having more kids would you not think?

people that work make the decision not to have kids because they cant afford it?



The Christmas bonus is a waste of money, if people are so interested in saving money then cut back have to be made by everyone. So poor little Jonny cant get his illegal scrambler this christmas. Boo Hoo


In terms of taking rent at source? well that would stop the huge issue City COuncils have with wasters not paying rent, no idea why we would say actually paying your rent is hitting the weakest? it should be automatic people pay rent

LeinsterDub

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Well many environmentalists would be against child benefit. Personally I am against it. Work should be rewarded. Having kids isnt work. Its life fulfiment.

Well many astronauts hate space ice-cream but so what

LuasSimon

Whilst I am in favour of a wealth tax to increase our taxation it is only fair the welfare is looked at too and people like Margaret cash and her cousins getting children allowance for up to 8 children is not right . 4 children who should be the maximum if not three for children’s allowance purposes . A certain cohort of our society are breeding knowing the state( taxpayer ) will pick up the bill .

Also people who never did a days work should not receive the same welfare as someone who worked for twenty years who is now unemployed .

LeinsterDub

Rodin wrote: »

Spent 2 weeks on the dole at 18.
Ill never forget the sense of shame walking up to that .

Do get the same sense of shame availing of other state supports? Education, health, roads etc?

Wanderer78

Rodin wrote: »

Spent 2 weeks on the dole at 18.
Ill never forget the sense of shame walking up to that door and having to be answerable to someone I was smarter than about what efforts I was doing to find work before I got my money.
Haven't been on dole since 20 years on.

The biggest issue with the health service is the cost.
Have you taken a look at society recently?
Up until Covid, obesity and sloth is the biggest challenge facing public health.
Far too many are a drain on the public purse. That money would be better spent on people who have just got unlucky with their health.

The management of chronic diseases like Type 2 diabetes is crippling healthcare systems.

The Emergency depts around the country are empty. Doesn't that tell you that many people attend there who don't need to be there normally. This adds to waiting times.

so at 18, you knew you were smarter the staff at the dole office, how so? what would you have done at that time, if the welfare system didnt exist?

what you re trying to get to with the health system, is the complex nature of human behavior, obesity is extremely complex, particularly psychologically. do you think we should just simply ignore those with complex psychologically issues?

Thelonious Monk

Shefwedfan wrote: »

My post asked to shut down people having over 4 kids unless they can afford it. How is that hittest the weakest? if they are the weakest the last thing they should be doing is having more kids would you not think?

people that work make the decision not to have kids because they cant afford it?

But if they have them anyway, you think the extra children shouldn't get any payments? That's unfair on the kid, it's not their fault they have irresponsible parents.