Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

LuasSimon

There has to be something wrong when people like Larry Goodman are worth 3 or 4 Billion but pays tax in Luxembourg at minimal levels yet lives in county Louth ? .... there are quite a few others JP McManus etc .
Should there be a one off tax on those with assets over a hundred million ? .. it’s not as if they don’t have enough .

Shefwedfan

LuasSimon wrote: »

There has to be something wrong when people like Larry Goodman are worth 3 or 4 Billion but pays tax in Luxembourg at minimal levels yet lives in county Louth ? .... there are quite a few others JP McManus etc .
Should there be a one off tax on those with assets over a hundred million ? .. it’s not as if they don’t have enough .

Your going around in circles now, fire any any name you have seen in the press and try to tax them


If this was the case it would have been done years ago. Since I was a baby all I have heard from everyone is "tax the rich", seems to be the go to for everything.


IN reality what has happened in the last few years is screw the person who went to school/college and got a decent job. Just look at the great SF, it was hit the person making a few quid so they could plough it into the waster.



At this stage social needs to be less inviting to people. People have to pay for council houses, Christmas bonus is a waste of tax payer money. Stop the children allowance which by some people is just used as additional source of income.


Come back when all of that is done, then go after the people who have a decent job and it will be a lot more receptive, instead it is take take take from the same group while not hitting anyone else

Wanderer78

Jesus, these threads just rehash the same ould welfare ****e!

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Jesus, these threads just rehash the same ould welfare ****e!

Well if the issue is never resolved then expect it to constantly come up

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

Well if the issue is never resolved then expect it to constantly come up

True, lower class issue are not really a concern to resolve, it's believed throwing money at them, and not enough mind you, is resolution

paulmurphyvec

Tax will be gathered by governments all over the world one way or another.

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

True, lower class issue are not really a concern to resolve, it's believed throwing money at them, and not enough mind you, is resolution

How much is enough?


Would you not agree that since the crash the only people who have been constantly topped up is the lower class?


With the middle class been constantly hit to pay for it?



People who can't afford rent or to live in Dublin while millions is wasted on people who wont pay rent while they claim benefit to pay the rent


Not been able to afford childcare so restricting the amount of children you have, simple fact is the maths dont add up v people having as many as they like and then expect someone else to pay,.

Paying tax/insurance on car v just driving around and complaining when Garda take car off you


People are simply been asked by me to pay their own way. What is the issue with that?

LeinsterDub

Rodin wrote: »

Christmas bonus was scrapped in the last recession.
Should go again. €265 million it cost last year. Scandalous.

And local authorities need more efficiencies. Not more cash. Shocking waste goes on in local authorities.

The old 5 men to dig a hole scenario is rampant.

Many households in the country right now are learning to cut costs because their income is insecure.
The country needs to do the same.

Only my opinion of course.

Jesus you're cut through bone now. The LAs are on their knees. There is nothing left to cut. If you love poverty so much why don't you move to America and leave the rest of us with some form of welfare state

LeinsterDub

declanflynn wrote: »

Instead of trying to find a way of increasing our tax take we should look at how our taxes are spent(wasted)

Hasn't that been looked at numerous times and said waste is rarely found?

LuasSimon

Many people who think their middle class aren’t middle class anymore , by the time they pay their taxes , usc , rent or mortgage , childcare they have less left than those on welfare .
Any future tax’s to pay for Covid will need to come from those 100k upwards

Idbatterim

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Jesus you're cut through bone now. The LAs are on their knees. There is nothing left to cut. If you love poverty so much why don't you move to America and leave the rest of us with some form of welfare state

The same idiot la who vote to reduce property tax rate.

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So what’s the 3rd way?

There are millionaires and trillion euro companies which can be taxed. Wealth tax on millionaires. Revenue tax on companies. It's the state providing services which keeps the cost of living lower

Idbatterim

LuasSimon wrote: »

Many people who think their middle class aren’t middle class anymore , by the time they pay their taxes , usc , rent or mortgage , childcare they have less left than those on welfare .
Any future tax’s to pay for Covid will need to come from those 100k upwards

While many ob one hundred k plus thiebebing a living should he taxed more, politicians, many civil and public servants, rte staff etc. It creates a big problem for skilled professionals we want to jetp here and entrepreneurs etc

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At this stage social needs to be less inviting to people. People have to pay for council houses, Christmas bonus is a waste of tax payer money. Stop the children allowance which by some people is just used as additional source of income.

Why do you want to make the elderly, sick and disabled poorer?

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

Would you not agree that since the crash the only people who have been constantly topped up is the lower class?

Almost a million newly unemployed, receiving a topped up dole, are all lower class!!!!

Shefwedfan wrote:

With the middle class been constantly hit to pay for it?

Nobody's paying for it just yet, we re still currently going by previous budget criteria, this money has been borrowed at extremely low interest rates, some negative, effectively making it free money.

Shefwedfan wrote:

People who can't afford rent or to live in Dublin while millions is wasted on people who wont pay rent while they claim benefit to pay the rent

Maybe previous policies that have been encouraging continual asset price inflation, have something to do with this situation!

Shefwedfan wrote:

People are simply been asked by me to pay their own way. What is the issue with that?

Maybe some simply cannot afford rents or high mortgage rates due to the rapid rise in property prices over the last couple of decades

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How much is enough?


Would you not agree that since the crash the only people who have been constantly topped up is the lower class?


With the middle class been constantly hit to pay for it?



People who can't afford rent or to live in Dublin while millions is wasted on people who wont pay rent while they claim benefit to pay the rent


Not been able to afford childcare so restricting the amount of children you have, simple fact is the maths dont add up v people having as many as they like and then expect someone else to pay,.

Paying tax/insurance on car v just driving around and complaining when Garda take car off you


People are simply been asked by me to pay their own way. What is the issue with that?

It's been shown that investing in social housing reduces the cost of housing for everyone. Child care is covered by most European countries also the statics should them number having as many as they like it tiny)

Your a victim of your own ideology

lawred2

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No but you seem to think spending 300 million on a Christmas piss up is good value for money.....personally I dont

You can put words in my mouth all you like. Doesn't make anything you say correct though.

krissovo

LeinsterDub wrote: »

There are millionaires and trillion euro companies which can be taxed. Wealth tax on millionaires. Revenue tax on companies. It's the state providing services which keeps the cost of living lower

How would you define a millionaire? Assets, cash?

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Start at bottom and work way up

Social welfare:
Shut down the never ending child allowance, 3-4 kids, don’t care but Pick a max and stop, want anymore pay for them yourself
Christmas bonus gone
Stop at source rent for council houses, fix that then come back

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
Great post.

LeinsterDub

krissovo wrote: »

How would you define a millionaire? Assets, cash?

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's not for me to define but if I you want me to pluck a number I shall as those with wealth of over a million excluding the family home or farm land they are working themselves

Like so

LeinsterDub

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
Great post.

And when your left with crippling poverity and even worse drug abuse and eductional issues you'll have achived what? A few extra pennys in your pocket?

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's been shown that investing in social housing reduces the cost of housing for everyone. Child care is covered by most European countries also the statics should them number having as many as they like it tiny)

Your a victim of your own ideology

I would say invest in affordable housing.



I didn't say not to invest in social, just the people that are in social housing to pay the rent



Not sure what your point is on childcare?

LeinsterDub

Idbatterim wrote: »

The same idiot la who vote to reduce property tax rate.

I agree that it's stupid but it does't doesn't take away from my point the there is very little left to cut

krissovo

Easy to bypass, just keep a cool 900k in the bank and just buy assets or invest the cash like most do. It would cost more to chase the wealth than it would return.

Eric Cartman

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And when your left with crippling poverity and even worse drug abuse and eductional issues you'll have achived what? A few extra pennys in your pocket?

I don't know about you but I pay a hell of a lot more than a few pennies in tax.

This notion that throwing them a few quid of the welfare and allowing them have unlimited kids is the only thing stopping Ireland from descending into a crime and drug riddle sh*thole says more about their lack of morality and makes more of a case for rounding up the unemployed and putting them on an island for the safety of decent citizens. than it does for giving them money.

ELM327

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And when your left with crippling poverity and even worse drug abuse and eductional issues you'll have achived what? A few extra pennys in your pocket?

No, you're left with a population that is self responsible and not relying on the country to fund their procreation.


Even stop it now, allow legacy claimants to be grandfathered in - but no new claims. Over time it will save money.

As for your "pennies" comment, my effective tax rate is above 33% for the last few years so it's a fair bit more than a few pennies.

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

There are millionaires and trillion euro companies which can be taxed. Wealth tax on millionaires. Revenue tax on companies. It's the state providing services which keeps the cost of living lower

Tax the companies, they leave Ireland, more unemployment. Great plan.

These companies already pay tax, the agreed tax when they moved to Ireland and employed huge sections of Ireland, the people employed also pay tax.

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Almost a million newly unemployed, receiving a topped up dole, are all lower class!!!!



Nobody's paying for it just yet, we re still currently going by previous budget criteria, this money has been borrowed at extremely low interest rates, some negative, effectively making it free money.




Maybe previous policies that have been encouraging continual asset price inflation, have something to do with this situation!



Maybe some simply cannot afford rents or high mortgage rates due to the rapid rise in property prices over the last couple of decades

There's a big difference between someone receiving the covid payment after years of working, and those receiving years of JSA, lone parents, 90% rent discount etc. I have no problem at all with the former (there for the grace of god) but the latter should be condemned.

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Tax the companies, they leave Ireland, more unemployment. Great plan.

These companies already pay tax, the agreed tax when they moved to Ireland and employed huge sections of Ireland, the people employed also pay tax.

+1
tAkE tHe ApPlE bIlLiOnS

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

+1
tAkE tHe ApPlE bIlLiOnS

:P:P:P:P

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would say invest in affordable housing.



I didn't say not to invest in social, just the people that are in social housing to pay the rent

So a third way , between everything is free / certain people paying nothing and nothing subsidised / cutting our social system to the bone

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure what your point is on childcare?

The costs of childcare are greatly subsidised or do you mean parenting as opposed to preschool?

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Tax the companies, they leave Ireland, more unemployment. Great plan.

These companies already pay tax, the agreed tax when they moved to Ireland and employed huge sections of Ireland, the people employed also pay tax.

what we have to remember id the people who preach that often are morally opposed to MNC's or any company where a multi millionaire profits from it. They want it closed or moved away.

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So a third way , between everything is free / certain people paying nothing and nothing subsidised / cutting our social system to the bone

Sorry but you are rambling now, I made a few points. They are fairly simple points. You seem to be somehow confused.


What is the issue with someone who is living in a house and getting rent subsidy actually paying the rent?

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The costs of childcare are greatly subsidised or do you mean parenting as opposed to preschool?

No idea where you are going with this.....maybe explain..

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

what we have to remember id the people who preach that often are morally opposed to MNC's or any company where a multi millionaire profits from it. They want it closed or moved away.

Imo people paying 40% are effectively subsidising said MNCs who arent paying fair share


Mad buzz,differing views on things.

LeinsterDub

ELM327 wrote: »

There's a big difference between someone receiving the covid payment after years of working, and those receiving years of JSA, lone parents, 90% rent discount etc. I have no problem at all with the former (there for the grace of god) but the latter should be condemned.

All systems will be abused , it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a system, you accept it, you attempt to limit it.

Should all cars be limited to 20 kph because some idiots won't stop driving like lunes and getting into crashes?

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sorry but you are rambling now, I made a few points. They are fairly simple points. You seem to be somehow confused.



What is the issue with someone who is living in a house and getting rent subsidy actually paying the rent?

Clearly it's you who is confused . I said I agreed with you they should pay rent.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No idea where you are going with this.....maybe explain..

Your worried about people having 14 kids the can't afford , despite the fact the evidence of such is near 0. I said having a european style child care system would help us all pay for it.

KyussB

The only solution to unemployment is a Job Guarantee - government acting as employer of last resort. Nothing else can permanently end unemployment.

Employ them all, build all the social and for-profit affordable housing (to make it self-financing) that the country needs, and begin overhauling our infrastructure and buildings etc. to eliminate climate changing emissions.

Solves unemployment (and thus the stupid arguments about dole scroungers), solves the housing crisis, begins solving our contribution to climate change, and solves the economic downturn we're heading into, by keeping the economy at Full Employment and Full Output.

ELM327

LeinsterDub wrote: »

All systems will be abused , it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a system, you accept it, you attempt to limit it.

Should all cars be limited to 20 kph because some idiots won't stop driving like lunes and getting into crashes?

No, cars are limited by speed limits that are enforced.
So, there's a system, there's a limit


As opposed to the (expensively borrowed) money printing machine that is the DSP bill.

ELM327

KyussB wrote: »

The only solution to unemployment is a Job Guarantee - government acting as employer of last resort. Nothing else can permanently end unemployment.

Employ them all, build all the social and for-profit affordable housing (to make it self-financing) that the country needs, and begin overhauling our infrastructure and buildings etc. to eliminate climate changing emissions.

Solves unemployment (and thus the stupid arguments about dole scroungers), solves the housing crisis, begins solving our contribution to climate change, and solves the economic downturn we're heading into, by keeping the economy at Full Employment and Full Output.

Great idea comrade, that's never been tried and failed in many places.
How's venezuela working? Or the CCCP?

LeinsterDub

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Tax the companies, they leave Ireland, more unemployment. Great plan.

These companies already pay tax, the agreed tax when they moved to Ireland and employed huge sections of Ireland, the people employed also pay tax.

Leave Ireland and go where? This a completely false narative especially if we act as a european whole.

Don't you ever wonder how you got to a postion of wanting to inflict pain and suffering on little children but the idea of a millionaires and companies valued in the trillions paying a small bit more tax is what you rush to oppose?

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

Imo people paying 40% are effectively subsidising said MNCs who arent paying fair share


Mad buzz,differing views on things.

The mental and economic gymnastics needed to reach that conclusion are staggering. The problem is how much we spend. For an island nation and population our 80 billion quid intake is far more than enough.

Eric Cartman

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Leave Ireland and go where? This a completely false narative especially if we act as a european whole.

Don't you ever wonder how you got to a postion of wanting to inflict pain and suffering on little children but the idea of a millionaires and companies valued in the trillions paying a small bit more tax is what you rush to oppose?

"if a thing that will almost certainly not happen, happens, then your point is invalid"
Another country would cut them a deal, we all know it, its easy for them to leave.

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't know about you but I pay a hell of a lot more than a few pennies in tax.

This notion that throwing them a few quid of the welfare and allowing them have unlimited kids is the only thing stopping Ireland from descending into a crime and drug riddle sh*thole says more about their lack of morality and makes more of a case for rounding up the unemployed and putting them on an island for the safety of decent citizens. than it does for giving them money.

Key word 'extra'. Well the poorest areas have the worse drug and crime issues. I said nothing about Ireland desending into a a ****thole so you can take down your strawman. Awh your a drug addition is a moral failing (** expect when its the acceptible middle class drug, I assume) type of guy.

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The mental and economic gymnastics needed to reach that conclusion are staggering. The problem is how much we spend. For an island nation and population our 80 billion quid intake is far more than enough.

So are you cutting the eldery or the disabled first? Maybe it's the sick that make you want to vomit?

ELM327

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So are you cutting the eldery or the disabled first? Maybe it's the sick that make you want to vomit?

Just the lifetime dolers and career mothers

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Your worried about people having 14 kids the can't afford , despite the fact the evidence of such is near 0. I said having a european style child care system would help us all pay for it.

When did I say about 14 kids?

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

Just the lifetime dolers and career mothers

so what causes these type of situations?

KyussB

ELM327 wrote: »

Great idea comrade, that's never been tried and failed in many places.
How's venezuela working? Or the CCCP?

Ah yes, the "Any policy I dislike, is the same as Communism" crowd has arrived - importing US right-wing shite-smearing, to a country that doesn't exist in.

Same policy as the UK, US, or any other major economy implemented during WWII.

LeinsterDub

ELM327 wrote: »

Just the lifetime dolers and career mothers

Great so we are in agreement. Now what do you do with such cases?

UBI is one potential solution. Letting them starve to death is the solution at the other end of the scale

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Leave Ireland and go where? This a completely false narative especially if we act as a european whole.

Anywhere? every country in Europe and the World would have no issues taking HP, Intel, IBM, Facebook etc and wouldn't give a cr*p about Ireland

Just because we are in Europe doesn't mean we dont compete to get these companies into our shores