Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

Geuze

Rodin wrote: »

I don't agree in the slightest.
Why should someone pay a property tax ?

See section 2 here:

https://www.esri.ie/system/files?file=media/file-uploads/2015-07/EC011.pdf

Geuze

Rodin wrote: »

Do those dozens of countries also have universal social charge and a low cut-off for high tax band?

The top MTR starts at a low point in Ireland, yes.

Staring at approx 1x average earnings, approx 35-36k, is a very early starting point.

The solution is more rates/bands.

Rodin

Geuze wrote: »

See section 2 here:

https://www.esri.ie/system/files?file=media/file-uploads/2015-07/EC011.pdf

Awfully long winded
I'd cut the Christmas bonus and wouldnt be any social welfare increases for 5 years.
Wouldn't need the property tax then.
All a matter of personal philosophy...

Geuze

Rodin wrote: »

W
Too many taxes in this country.
Could start with cutting Christmas bonus. That's half the property tax gone right there.

The number of individual taxes is never really discussed in the research.

I suspect you mean the overall amount of tax?

Please note of course that overall taxes are not high in Ireland.

This is well established.

I often use the anecdote of my parents:

They pay 8-9% direct income taxes on 50k approx, and get:

two med cards
two FTP
free TV licence
35 pm off the elec

We have a very progressive income tax system, with low or zero taxes on many earners, yet the top MTR kicks in at 36k approx.

Crazy.

Geuze

Rodin wrote: »

I'd cut the Christmas bonus and wouldnt be any social welfare increases for 5 years.
...

Not politically possible.

Rodin

Geuze wrote: »

Not politically possible.

Christmas bonus was scrapped in the last recession.
Should go again. €265 million it cost last year. Scandalous.

And local authorities need more efficiencies. Not more cash. Shocking waste goes on in local authorities.

The old 5 men to dig a hole scenario is rampant.

Many households in the country right now are learning to cut costs because their income is insecure.
The country needs to do the same.

Only my opinion of course.

markodaly

KaneToad wrote: »

Of course inequality is exacerbated by inheritance. The rich stay rich. They access the better schools, the better universities, the better jobs. The cycle continues. The ability to become a successful entrepreneur is greatly assisted by having an interest free wad to get you going.

A quick glance at Ireland's successful business men:

JP McManus - began his career in family construction business.

Denis O'Brien - son of millionaire, personal assistant to Tony Ryan for a while

Michael O'Leary - son of millionaire, invited personally to work with Tony Ryan because he went to (expensive) boarding school with Ryan's kids

John Magnier - son of a millionaire land owner, had to leave education in (expensive) Glenstal abbey at 15 to manage family estate on death of father.

All of the above are very successful business men who undoubtedly work hard and smart. But we can't ignore the advantages that assisted them to get where there are.

One curiosity though, is Sean Quinn. Although recent events suggest that he had other assistance to get him to where he is.

As I said, its a nice narrative and all, but there is no evidence that society as a whole will get more equal if you go in hard on inheritance taxes.
As an example, Sweden has abolished inheritance taxes about 16 years ago.

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Nearly everything that ended up coming together in a Smartphone was either developed, or rapidly advanced, by means of public funding/research/activity.



You're clueless.

That is like an advertisement for more military spending to be honest with you.

Junkyard Tom

markodaly wrote: »

That is like an advertisement for more military spending to be honest with you.

Check out where most of MIT's funding comes from and some of the technological advances that have come out of there.

declanflynn

Instead of trying to find a way of increasing our tax take we should look at how our taxes are spent(wasted)

lawred2

Rodin wrote: »

Christmas bonus was scrapped in the last recession.
Should go again. €265 million it cost last year. Scandalous.

And local authorities need more efficiencies. Not more cash. Shocking waste goes on in local authorities.

The old 5 men to dig a hole scenario is rampant.

Many households in the country right now are learning to cut costs because their income is insecure.
The country needs to do the same.

Only my opinion of course.

Realistically that entire Christmas bonus makes its way back into the economy. Very little if none of that is getting saved. Handy boon for retailers at Christmas time.

Idbatterim

lawred2 wrote: »

Realistically that entire Christmas bonus makes its way back into the economy. Very little if none of that is getting saved. Handy boon for retailers at Christmas time.

A joke of an argument, a joke! Let's increase it to two billion if so. Its getscwasted on ****e, alcohol, bookies, junk food, drugs etc. But sure ite only nearly 300,000,000 with a country with all areas as as well funded as here, who needs a few hundred million...

Christmas must come as a surprise to these people every year

Idbatterim

Rodin wrote: »

Well I think it's unfair. So there ya go.
Do those dozens of countries also have universal social charge and a low cut-off for high tax band? Is their social welfare as generous as it is here?

Too many taxes in this country.
Could start with cutting Christmas bonus. That's half the property tax gone right there.

I totally agree, but the rip offarginal rate exists, because basically there are no water charges, proper lpt etc. Basically if you arebt a worker, you shouldn't pay anything...

Idbatterim

Rodin wrote: »

Well I think it's unfair. So there ya go.
Do those dozens of countries also have universal social charge and a low cut-off for high tax band? Is their social welfare as generous as it is here?

Too many taxes in this country.
Could start with cutting Christmas bonus. That's half the property tax gone right there.

I totally agree, but the rip offarginal rate exists, because basically there are no water charges, proper lpt etc. Basically if you arebt a worker, you shouldn't pay anything...

lawred2

Idbatterim wrote: »

A joke of an argument, a joke! Let's increase it to two billion if so. Its getscwasted on ****e, alcohol, bookies, junk food, drugs etc. But sure ite only nearly 300,000,000 with a country with all areas as as well funded as here, who needs a few hundred million...

Christmas must come as a surprise to these people every year

Who's an angry boy.

Listen, I wouldn't pay it myself, but it does get recirculated around the economy.

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

If only there was a third way

So what’s the 3rd way?

Shefwedfan

lawred2 wrote: »

Realistically that entire Christmas bonus makes its way back into the economy. Very little if none of that is getting saved. Handy boon for retailers at Christmas time.

So we had over 300 million of tax which goes into shops which are in the main owned by UK/European companies and the profit floods out to European regions

How is that good for the economy instead of let’s say giving 300 millions to builders, to build houses and buy materials in ireland? That’s a better investment

lawred2

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So we had over 300 million of tax which goes into shops which are in the main owned by UK/European companies and the profit floods out to European regions

How is that good for the economy instead of let’s say giving 300 millions to builders, to build houses and buy materials in ireland? That’s a better investment

Of course investing in infrastructure would be better.

Was there something I posted which claimed otherwise?

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Check out where most of MIT's funding comes from and some of the technological advances that have come out of there.

Do you approve of military funding?

Shefwedfan

lawred2 wrote: »

Of course investing in infrastructure would be better.

Was there something I posted which claimed otherwise?

No but you seem to think spending 300 million on a Christmas piss up is good value for money.....personally I dont

LuasSimon

There has to be something wrong when people like Larry Goodman are worth 3 or 4 Billion but pays tax in Luxembourg at minimal levels yet lives in county Louth ? .... there are quite a few others JP McManus etc .
Should there be a one off tax on those with assets over a hundred million ? .. it’s not as if they don’t have enough .

Shefwedfan

LuasSimon wrote: »

There has to be something wrong when people like Larry Goodman are worth 3 or 4 Billion but pays tax in Luxembourg at minimal levels yet lives in county Louth ? .... there are quite a few others JP McManus etc .
Should there be a one off tax on those with assets over a hundred million ? .. it’s not as if they don’t have enough .

Your going around in circles now, fire any any name you have seen in the press and try to tax them


If this was the case it would have been done years ago. Since I was a baby all I have heard from everyone is "tax the rich", seems to be the go to for everything.


IN reality what has happened in the last few years is screw the person who went to school/college and got a decent job. Just look at the great SF, it was hit the person making a few quid so they could plough it into the waster.



At this stage social needs to be less inviting to people. People have to pay for council houses, Christmas bonus is a waste of tax payer money. Stop the children allowance which by some people is just used as additional source of income.


Come back when all of that is done, then go after the people who have a decent job and it will be a lot more receptive, instead it is take take take from the same group while not hitting anyone else

Wanderer78

Jesus, these threads just rehash the same ould welfare ****e!

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Jesus, these threads just rehash the same ould welfare ****e!

Well if the issue is never resolved then expect it to constantly come up

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

Well if the issue is never resolved then expect it to constantly come up

True, lower class issue are not really a concern to resolve, it's believed throwing money at them, and not enough mind you, is resolution

paulmurphyvec

Tax will be gathered by governments all over the world one way or another.

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

True, lower class issue are not really a concern to resolve, it's believed throwing money at them, and not enough mind you, is resolution

How much is enough?


Would you not agree that since the crash the only people who have been constantly topped up is the lower class?


With the middle class been constantly hit to pay for it?



People who can't afford rent or to live in Dublin while millions is wasted on people who wont pay rent while they claim benefit to pay the rent


Not been able to afford childcare so restricting the amount of children you have, simple fact is the maths dont add up v people having as many as they like and then expect someone else to pay,.

Paying tax/insurance on car v just driving around and complaining when Garda take car off you


People are simply been asked by me to pay their own way. What is the issue with that?

LeinsterDub

Rodin wrote: »

Christmas bonus was scrapped in the last recession.
Should go again. €265 million it cost last year. Scandalous.

And local authorities need more efficiencies. Not more cash. Shocking waste goes on in local authorities.

The old 5 men to dig a hole scenario is rampant.

Many households in the country right now are learning to cut costs because their income is insecure.
The country needs to do the same.

Only my opinion of course.

Jesus you're cut through bone now. The LAs are on their knees. There is nothing left to cut. If you love poverty so much why don't you move to America and leave the rest of us with some form of welfare state

LeinsterDub

declanflynn wrote: »

Instead of trying to find a way of increasing our tax take we should look at how our taxes are spent(wasted)

Hasn't that been looked at numerous times and said waste is rarely found?

LuasSimon

Many people who think their middle class aren’t middle class anymore , by the time they pay their taxes , usc , rent or mortgage , childcare they have less left than those on welfare .
Any future tax’s to pay for Covid will need to come from those 100k upwards