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Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

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    #212
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Jesus you're cut through bone now. The LAs are on their knees. There is nothing left to cut. If you love poverty so much why don't you move to America and leave the rest of us with some form of welfare state

    The same idiot la who vote to reduce property tax rate.


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    #213
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    So what’s the 3rd way?

    There are millionaires and trillion euro companies which can be taxed. Wealth tax on millionaires. Revenue tax on companies. It's the state providing services which keeps the cost of living lower


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    #214
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Many people who think their middle class aren’t middle class anymore , by the time they pay their taxes , usc , rent or mortgage , childcare they have less left than those on welfare .
    Any future tax’s to pay for Covid will need to come from those 100k upwards

    While many ob one hundred k plus thiebebing a living should he taxed more, politicians, many civil and public servants, rte staff etc. It creates a big problem for skilled professionals we want to jetp here and entrepreneurs etc


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    #215
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    At this stage social needs to be less inviting to people. People have to pay for council houses, Christmas bonus is a waste of tax payer money. Stop the children allowance which by some people is just used as additional source of income.

    Why do you want to make the elderly, sick and disabled poorer?


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    #216
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Shefwedfan wrote:
    Would you not agree that since the crash the only people who have been constantly topped up is the lower class?

    Almost a million newly unemployed, receiving a topped up dole, are all lower class!!!!
    Shefwedfan wrote:
    With the middle class been constantly hit to pay for it?

    Nobody's paying for it just yet, we re still currently going by previous budget criteria, this money has been borrowed at extremely low interest rates, some negative, effectively making it free money.

    Shefwedfan wrote:
    People who can't afford rent or to live in Dublin while millions is wasted on people who wont pay rent while they claim benefit to pay the rent

    Maybe previous policies that have been encouraging continual asset price inflation, have something to do with this situation!
    Shefwedfan wrote:
    People are simply been asked by me to pay their own way. What is the issue with that?

    Maybe some simply cannot afford rents or high mortgage rates due to the rapid rise in property prices over the last couple of decades


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    #217
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    How much is enough?


    Would you not agree that since the crash the only people who have been constantly topped up is the lower class?


    With the middle class been constantly hit to pay for it?



    People who can't afford rent or to live in Dublin while millions is wasted on people who wont pay rent while they claim benefit to pay the rent


    Not been able to afford childcare so restricting the amount of children you have, simple fact is the maths dont add up v people having as many as they like and then expect someone else to pay,.

    Paying tax/insurance on car v just driving around and complaining when Garda take car off you


    People are simply been asked by me to pay their own way. What is the issue with that?

    It's been shown that investing in social housing reduces the cost of housing for everyone. Child care is covered by most European countries also the statics should them number having as many as they like it tiny)

    Your a victim of your own ideology


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    #218
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    No but you seem to think spending 300 million on a Christmas piss up is good value for money.....personally I dont

    You can put words in my mouth all you like. Doesn't make anything you say correct though.


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    #219
    krissovo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    There are millionaires and trillion euro companies which can be taxed. Wealth tax on millionaires. Revenue tax on companies. It's the state providing services which keeps the cost of living lower

    How would you define a millionaire? Assets, cash?


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    #220
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Start at bottom and work way up

    Social welfare:
    Shut down the never ending child allowance, 3-4 kids, don’t care but Pick a max and stop, want anymore pay for them yourself
    Christmas bonus gone
    Stop at source rent for council houses, fix that then come back


    Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
    Great post.


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    #221
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    krissovo wrote: »
    How would you define a millionaire? Assets, cash?
    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    It's not for me to define but if I you want me to pluck a number I shall as those with wealth of over a million excluding the family home or farm land they are working themselves

    Like so


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    #222
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
    Great post.

    And when your left with crippling poverity and even worse drug abuse and eductional issues you'll have achived what? A few extra pennys in your pocket?


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    #223
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    It's been shown that investing in social housing reduces the cost of housing for everyone. Child care is covered by most European countries also the statics should them number having as many as they like it tiny)

    Your a victim of your own ideology


    I would say invest in affordable housing.



    I didn't say not to invest in social, just the people that are in social housing to pay the rent



    Not sure what your point is on childcare?


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    #224
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    The same idiot la who vote to reduce property tax rate.

    I agree that it's stupid but it does't doesn't take away from my point the there is very little left to cut


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    #225
    krissovo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    Easy to bypass, just keep a cool 900k in the bank and just buy assets or invest the cash like most do. It would cost more to chase the wealth than it would return.


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    #226
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    And when your left with crippling poverity and even worse drug abuse and eductional issues you'll have achived what? A few extra pennys in your pocket?

    I don't know about you but I pay a hell of a lot more than a few pennies in tax.

    This notion that throwing them a few quid of the welfare and allowing them have unlimited kids is the only thing stopping Ireland from descending into a crime and drug riddle sh*thole says more about their lack of morality and makes more of a case for rounding up the unemployed and putting them on an island for the safety of decent citizens. than it does for giving them money.


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    #227
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    And when your left with crippling poverity and even worse drug abuse and eductional issues you'll have achived what? A few extra pennys in your pocket?
    No, you're left with a population that is self responsible and not relying on the country to fund their procreation.


    Even stop it now, allow legacy claimants to be grandfathered in - but no new claims. Over time it will save money.

    As for your "pennies" comment, my effective tax rate is above 33% for the last few years so it's a fair bit more than a few pennies.


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    #228
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    There are millionaires and trillion euro companies which can be taxed. Wealth tax on millionaires. Revenue tax on companies. It's the state providing services which keeps the cost of living lower


    Tax the companies, they leave Ireland, more unemployment. Great plan.

    These companies already pay tax, the agreed tax when they moved to Ireland and employed huge sections of Ireland, the people employed also pay tax.


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    #229
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Almost a million newly unemployed, receiving a topped up dole, are all lower class!!!!



    Nobody's paying for it just yet, we re still currently going by previous budget criteria, this money has been borrowed at extremely low interest rates, some negative, effectively making it free money.




    Maybe previous policies that have been encouraging continual asset price inflation, have something to do with this situation!



    Maybe some simply cannot afford rents or high mortgage rates due to the rapid rise in property prices over the last couple of decades


    There's a big difference between someone receiving the covid payment after years of working, and those receiving years of JSA, lone parents, 90% rent discount etc. I have no problem at all with the former (there for the grace of god) but the latter should be condemned.


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    #230
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Tax the companies, they leave Ireland, more unemployment. Great plan.

    These companies already pay tax, the agreed tax when they moved to Ireland and employed huge sections of Ireland, the people employed also pay tax.
    +1
    tAkE tHe ApPlE bIlLiOnS


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    #231
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    ELM327 wrote: »
    +1
    tAkE tHe ApPlE bIlLiOnS


    :P:P:P:P


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    #232
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I would say invest in affordable housing.



    I didn't say not to invest in social, just the people that are in social housing to pay the rent
    So a third way , between everything is free / certain people paying nothing and nothing subsidised / cutting our social system to the bone
    Shefwedfan wrote: »

    Not sure what your point is on childcare?

    The costs of childcare are greatly subsidised or do you mean parenting as opposed to preschool?


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    #233
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Tax the companies, they leave Ireland, more unemployment. Great plan.

    These companies already pay tax, the agreed tax when they moved to Ireland and employed huge sections of Ireland, the people employed also pay tax.

    what we have to remember id the people who preach that often are morally opposed to MNC's or any company where a multi millionaire profits from it. They want it closed or moved away.


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    #234
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    So a third way , between everything is free / certain people paying nothing and nothing subsidised / cutting our social system to the bone

    Sorry but you are rambling now, I made a few points. They are fairly simple points. You seem to be somehow confused.


    What is the issue with someone who is living in a house and getting rent subsidy actually paying the rent?

    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    The costs of childcare are greatly subsidised or do you mean parenting as opposed to preschool?


    No idea where you are going with this.....maybe explain..


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    #235
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    what we have to remember id the people who preach that often are morally opposed to MNC's or any company where a multi millionaire profits from it. They want it closed or moved away.

    Imo people paying 40% are effectively subsidising said MNCs who arent paying fair share


    Mad buzz,differing views on things.


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    #236
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    ELM327 wrote: »
    There's a big difference between someone receiving the covid payment after years of working, and those receiving years of JSA, lone parents, 90% rent discount etc. I have no problem at all with the former (there for the grace of god) but the latter should be condemned.

    All systems will be abused , it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a system, you accept it, you attempt to limit it.

    Should all cars be limited to 20 kph because some idiots won't stop driving like lunes and getting into crashes?


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    #237
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Sorry but you are rambling now, I made a few points. They are fairly simple points. You seem to be somehow confused.



    What is the issue with someone who is living in a house and getting rent subsidy actually paying the rent?
    Clearly it's you who is confused . I said I agreed with you they should pay rent.
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    No idea where you are going with this.....maybe explain..

    Your worried about people having 14 kids the can't afford , despite the fact the evidence of such is near 0. I said having a european style child care system would help us all pay for it.


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    #238
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    The only solution to unemployment is a Job Guarantee - government acting as employer of last resort. Nothing else can permanently end unemployment.

    Employ them all, build all the social and for-profit affordable housing (to make it self-financing) that the country needs, and begin overhauling our infrastructure and buildings etc. to eliminate climate changing emissions.

    Solves unemployment (and thus the stupid arguments about dole scroungers), solves the housing crisis, begins solving our contribution to climate change, and solves the economic downturn we're heading into, by keeping the economy at Full Employment and Full Output.


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    #239
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    All systems will be abused , it doesn't mean we shouldn't have a system, you accept it, you attempt to limit it.

    Should all cars be limited to 20 kph because some idiots won't stop driving like lunes and getting into crashes?
    No, cars are limited by speed limits that are enforced.
    So, there's a system, there's a limit


    As opposed to the (expensively borrowed) money printing machine that is the DSP bill.


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    #240
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    KyussB wrote: »
    The only solution to unemployment is a Job Guarantee - government acting as employer of last resort. Nothing else can permanently end unemployment.

    Employ them all, build all the social and for-profit affordable housing (to make it self-financing) that the country needs, and begin overhauling our infrastructure and buildings etc. to eliminate climate changing emissions.

    Solves unemployment (and thus the stupid arguments about dole scroungers), solves the housing crisis, begins solving our contribution to climate change, and solves the economic downturn we're heading into, by keeping the economy at Full Employment and Full Output.
    Great idea comrade, that's never been tried and failed in many places.
    How's venezuela working? Or the CCCP?


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    #241
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Tax the companies, they leave Ireland, more unemployment. Great plan.

    These companies already pay tax, the agreed tax when they moved to Ireland and employed huge sections of Ireland, the people employed also pay tax.
    Leave Ireland and go where? This a completely false narative especially if we act as a european whole.

    Don't you ever wonder how you got to a postion of wanting to inflict pain and suffering on little children but the idea of a millionaires and companies valued in the trillions paying a small bit more tax is what you rush to oppose?


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