Why are Irish conservatives not represented in the media/politics?

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

Because FF along with FG and Labour (who were in office) changed the rules on Political Party Funding, you are very limited in what a person can donate to a party, it was sold to us as a way of regaining trust in political parties....it had the added benefit of course of eliminating the possibility of giving established parties any meaningful competition.

It takes huge resourses to launch a new political party...

It has the added benefit of stopping the wealthy from buying their way into power, as happens in the States - the best democracy money can buy.

You're right about the huge human resources needed to start a new party or indeed to maintain an existing party.

batman75

Isn't Ronan Mullen in the Seanad?

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yes Newstalk - have you listened to Pat Kenny or Ivan or Ciara (on economic matters)? They are classic Tories.

And who are the conservatives who are afraid to speak out? Would it be the Iona folks with their weekly national newspaper columns about being silenced? Or the usual economists or consultants wheeled out at every opportunity to bemoan regulation or taxation - like Eddie Molloy or Karl Deeter or IBEC or ISME.

How dare economists have an issue with Government spending....let's start burning their books!!!

The issue with a lot of Liberal Social Policies is they cost a lot of money to sustain, money that is taxed out of ordinary people and Private Enterprise.

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

No, there is not currently gender quota legislation applied to the Private Sector, so I used misleading terminology initially, I should have said proposed as opposed to being.

It is fair to assume that there will be...given the direction of the current legislation...that is not an exaggeration or inaccurate to suggest.

My issue is that the Government has no business interfering with Private Enterprises.

Sorry, but who has proposed gender quota legislation for Irish businesses?

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

How dare economists have an issue with Government spending....let's start burning their books!!!

The issue with a lot of Liberal Social Policies is they cost a lot of money to sustain, money that is taxed out of ordinary people and Private Enterprise.

So you do hear those messages in the media too - good to clarify that.

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yes Newstalk - have you listened to Pat Kenny or Ivan or Ciara (on economic matters)? They are classic Tories.

And who are the conservatives who are afraid to speak out? Would it be the Iona folks with their weekly national newspaper columns about being silenced? Or the usual economists or consultants wheeled out at every opportunity to bemoan regulation or taxation - like Eddie Molloy or Karl Deeter or IBEC or ISME.

There is no media voice in Ireland that even vaguely echoes the British Conservative party . There is an over representation of the left in all facets of the Irish media.

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It has the added benefit of stopping the wealthy from buying their way into power, as happens in the States - the best democracy money can buy.

You're right about the huge human resources needed to start a new party or indeed to maintain an existing party.

We never would have seen the PDs in this country who were very liberal and equally fiscally conservative (until they became a watered down version of FF) under the current confines....that is not healthy...essentially FF/Fg who are the only parties who can run candidates in every single constituency therefore securing a larger vote and larger funding will always swap ministerial seats over the next generation....as they have been in a different fashion since the foundation of this state.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There is no media voice in Ireland that even vaguely echoes the British Conservative party . There is an over representation of the left in all facets of the Irish media.

So just to be clear, are you saying that Pat Kenny, Ivan and Ciara are left wing?

bloodless_coup

Fred Cryton wrote: »

I think it's largely because Ireland was such a poor country only a generation ago. People associate the bad times in their minds with socially conservative times so they all want to be on the "progressive train". This is not the case for the UK or US where the 1950's and 1980's were boom times. So there is more of a counter culture in those nations due to the effect of de-industrialization.

Whatever about social conservatism, Ireland is absolutely crying out for a fiscally conservative party with a focus on tax cutting, major public sector reform and cutting the enormous 20 billion euro a year welfare budget. FG seem to have abandoned all of that in order to appeal to the smug middle class public sector workers and endear themselves to welfare recipients (little good that did them in last election).

Leo promised a FG shift to the right in response to the election result. I doubt it will happen to any great extent so we can only dream.

Unfortunately we will be stuck with parties pushing high taxation to pay for the endless handouts and joke of a public service.

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So just to be clear, are you saying that Pat Kenny, Ivan and Ciara are left wing?

no... but they're not tories, they would be centrists with the occasional centre-right view but in no way definitively conservative.

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you do hear those messages in the media too - good to clarify that.

I consume media as little as possible.

I'd have a lot of concern about the impact of the terrible conditions some people face in work.

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

We never would have seen the PDs in this country who were very liberal and equally fiscally conservative (until they became a watered down version of FF) under the current confines....that is not healthy...essentially FF/Fg who are the only parties who can run candidates in every single constituency therefore securing a larger vote and larger funding will always swap ministerial seats over the next generation....as they have been in a different fashion since the foundation of this state.

It's really not that hard to get funding. Renua were getting €2 million a year state funding up to the last election. They still failed to achieve critical mass. We've never had more small and new parties - Greens, SocDems, PBP.

Your problem is the lack of public support for your views.

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

I consume media as little as possible.

I'd have a lot of concern about the impact of the terrible conditions some people face in work.

Maybe you're not best positioned to speak about what voices are silenced or otherwise in the media so.

bloodless_coup

batman75 wrote: »

Isn't Ronan Mullen in the Seanad?

To the dismay of Irish Twitter users. Saw is name trending a few months back and it was just everyone trying to organise votes against him. Sad.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

no... but they're not tories, they would be centrists with the occasional centre-right view but in no way definitively conservative.

Ivan Yates is a centrist? Really?

AndrewJRenko

doylefe wrote: »

Leo promised a FG shift to the right in response to the election result.

Where or when did he promise this?

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Ivan Yates is a centrist? Really?

what 'tory or more right' views has he ever espoused ?

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's really not that hard to get funding. Renua were getting €2 million a year state funding up to the last election. They still failed to achieve critical mass. We've never had more small and new parties - Greens, SocDems, PBP.

Your problem is the lack of public support for your views.

And those small and new parties will struggle and eventually burn out....the Greens aside, the rest have and will continue to find it difficult to compete on a national level.

The share of the vote the big 3 have traditionally received has fallen by 40% approx over the last decade....clearly, the Irish electorate have an appetite for a new alternative, the fact that no one has succeeded in filling that void (from a fiscally conservative perspective)would suggest that alternative has not manifested itself yet.

I am a reluctant Fg voter, I'd move in a heartbeat if I had an alternative.

kowloon

Silentcorner wrote: »

Addressing the Cocaine Epidemic

Where is all this cocaine? Asking for a friend.

Addressing the Mental Health Crisis (that doesn't involve spending more taxpayers money)

Efficiency can definitely be raised and money leaks plugged, but vastly improving something like the healthcare system is going to involve spending money, even if it's just an initial investment. It'd be nice if something was actually learnt from the children's hospital. I think after this pandemic a lot of the shortcomings in our healthcare system are going to need to be addressed and that'll cost money. Hopefully, the will is there to actually do it without being afraid of what fiscal conservatives have to say. It could be down to a spend now to save long term situation.

Everlong1

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Then why hasn't somebody set up said party? Even you?

There is NO oblgation by the State to provide you with you such an option. Or any other option.

Where is this discussion has anyone suggested that the State is obliged to provide people with a particular political outlet?

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

what 'tory or more right' views has he ever espoused ?

His last column for the Indo would be a good starting point - standard Tory playbook - blame regulation, government and civil servants for the failings of the private sector.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ivan-yates/ivan-yates-red-tape-has-only-served-to-heighten-homes-crisis-37464204.html

Check out his latest tweet too

https://twitter.com/IvanYatesNT/status/1254486654448009216?s=19

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There is no media voice in Ireland that even vaguely echoes the British Conservative party . There is an over representation of the left in all facets of the Irish media.

What foreign media outlet would you like to see replicated in Ireland?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

no... but they're not tories, they would be centrists with the occasional centre-right view but in no way definitively conservative.

Therein lies te large part of your problem: centrism. It's not that Ireland has no moderate right or moderate left, it's the love affair with centrism. Irish people love the fence too much to deviate very far in either direction.

Silentcorner wrote: »

Because FF along with FG and Labour (who were in office) changed the rules on Political Party Funding, you are very limited in what a person can donate to a party, it was sold to us as a way of regaining trust in political parties....it had the added benefit of course of eliminating the possibility of giving established parties any meaningful competition.

It takes huge resourses to launch a new political party...

Those rules were brought in for very good reasons: do yo ureally want democracy for sale?

But I see your point. That said, if there was support at grass roots level, someone would have put together a party. Peter Casey had the means - why didn't he do it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Everlong1 wrote: »

Where is this discussion has anyone suggested that the State is obliged to provide people with a particular political outlet?

The idea that, if the people aren't going to set one up, there SHOULD be one.

If not the people, then who?

And if the people, well that's the OP's question answered then, slash thread.

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

His last column for the Indo would be a good starting point - standard Tory playbook - blame regulation, government and civil servants for the failings of the private sector.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ivan-yates/ivan-yates-red-tape-has-only-served-to-heighten-homes-crisis-37464204.html

Check out his latest tweet too
https://twitter.com/IvanYatesNT/status/1254486654448009216?s=19

Who do you think is to blame for the crippling housing/rental issues ?

Who do you think can resolve those issues?

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

And those small and new parties will struggle and eventually burn out....the Greens aside, the rest have and will continue to find it difficult to compete on a national level.

The share of the vote the big 3 have traditionally received has fallen by 40% approx over the last decade....clearly, the Irish electorate have an appetite for a new alternative, the fact that no one has succeeded in filling that void (from a fiscally conservative perspective)would suggest that alternative has not manifested itself yet.

I am a reluctant Fg voter, I'd move in a heartbeat if I had an alternative.

They may indeed burn out, as the Greens came very close to doing. And if they do, it is because they didn't attract enough support.

Personally, I find it strange to see Labour and SocDems struggling while SF are flying high, but that's democracy for you.

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

His last column for the Indo would be a good starting point - standard Tory playbook - blame regulation, government and civil servants for the failings of the private sector.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ivan-yates/ivan-yates-red-tape-has-only-served-to-heighten-homes-crisis-37464204.html

Check out his latest tweet too
https://twitter.com/IvanYatesNT/status/1254486654448009216?s=19

that you believe either of those pieces represent anything any more than 1 degree right of centre is concerning, those are very centrist concerns to have.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that you believe either of those pieces represent anything any more than 1 degree right of centre is concerning, those are very centrist concerns to have.

Then again the question is: how far right are we talking here? And what foreign media outlet standards would you like to see represented here?

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

Who do you think is to blame for the crippling housing/rental issues ?

Who do you think can resolve those issues?

https://touch.boards.ie/forum/38 is the forum that you're looking for there.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that you believe either of those pieces represent anything any more than 1 degree right of centre is concerning, those are very centrist concerns to have.

It's straight out of the Tory playbook.

Silentcorner

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Then again the question is: how far right are we talking here? And what foreign media outlet standards would you like to see represented here?

What have the far right got to do with mainstream views.

For instance, it is perfectly fine to Support legalising abortion, but be opposed to the taxpayer paying for the service.