Why are Irish conservatives not represented in the media/politics?

Silentcorner

rossie1977 wrote: »

Your list is made up of a number of nationalistic, conservative and left wing ideas.

It would be extremely difficult to find a candidate let alone a party that would agree on all these issues.

Because they are so off the wall is it?

I don't know where you are getting the notion that there are Nationalistic ideas in there....nothing wrong with a bit of EU skepticism, but given our collective nature's attitude to free stuff only a complete moran would advocate for us to leave the EU...

Feel free to object or disagree with any of those issues....that what healthy public discourse is about!!

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

What was Conservative about what was said....it was addressing the housing issue that the state has avoided over the last ten years....you think Yates is a Tory which is why you stated what you did....
...

I know that Yates is a Tory, as do a bunch of others

Take a look at these search results: https://twitter.com/search?q=Ivan%20Yates%20tory&s=09

I've explained my view on his housing article above. If you want to discuss housing policy, you know where to go.

L1011

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I don't know where you pull that 2% figure from. FG FF SF and the Greens get some conservative votes.

When you stack up a full set of right/conserative ideologies, you will be fighting for the sub-2% that are willing to vote for the full set.

Basically, elements of the full set of opinions will individually or collectively repel people until you've lost 98% of the electorate. Look at Casey who has circled the drain in his elections since, down to getting - amazingly - just under 2% in Donegal where he got 38% before he'd revealed all his opinions.

Parties of that kind can only really gain more votes in two party systems - when there's STV you get the option to vote for someone who doesn't have the bits you hate.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Silentcorner wrote: »

Pretending there aren't crisis or epidemics won't make them go away...jesus did we not learn anything from that oppressive religious era!!!

You don't appear to know what the phrase "loading" means.

The idea that it is a crisis is your opinion. Doesnt make it a crisis. Presenting the idea in the guise of a crisis is loading the phrase.
Now, this doesn't mean that you are wrong. Nor does me pointing it out to you making it wrong.

Nor does me pointing it out mean that I disagree with you.

Furthermore, saying to me "pretending there [sic] aren't crisis or epidemics...." is also loading the phrase with the assumption that I don't see them as such. I haven't commented one way or ther other because you haven't illustrated the alleged crisis.

Also - just to be 100% clear - I'm not debating whether or not something is or isn't an actual "crisis" - just your use of the word as loading.

And again - having to resort to loaded langauge is what puts people off political stances. If it's fact, presnt the facts. If it's not, don't load.

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I know that Yates is a Tory, as do a bunch of others

Take a look at these search results: https://twitter.com/search?q=Ivan%20Yates%20tory&s=09

I've explained my view on his housing article above. If you want to discuss housing policy, you know where to go.

But Ivan Yates is Irish....

Can't an Irish person have an alternate view without being compared to people in a different country....

Silentcorner

L1011 wrote: »

When you stack up a full set of right/conserative ideologies, you will be fighting for the sub-2% that are willing to vote for the full set.

Basically, elements of the full set of opinions will individually or collectively repel people until you've lost 98% of the electorate. Look at Casey who has circled the drain in his elections since, down to getting - amazingly - just under 2% in Donegal where he got 38% before he'd revealed all his opinions.

Parties of that kind can only really gain more votes in two party systems - when there's STV you get the option to vote for someone who doesn't have the bits you hate.

Nobody want's to live in a society where we live under "a full set" (whatever that is) of conservative ideologies, but nor should we be expected to live under a full set of liberal ideologies....because, you know, some one has to pay tax!

What people like me would like to see is debate....consensus and legislate accordingly, you know, like a proper democracy.

Everlong1

micosoft wrote: »

Apart from the half dozen non-sequiturs you are essentially putting forward a reactionary ideology.

The reason we have no appetite for regressive politics in Ireland is because the vast majority of people in Ireland realise it was "never great" in the past and definitely not going to make it "great again" like 1952. There is neither an empire nor Jim Crow laws to go back to. That today is better than yesterday and that we are making progress.

The only folk that feel otherwise are the usual losers that think the world owes them status and who only feel happy when they feel superior to some minority.

Re Presidential Election, like a school yard bully, it's easy to get a cheap cheer in the playground by attacking an easy target. But the majority of people grow up and realise what obnoxious behaviour that is let alone they could be targeted one day.

But you keep enjoying your memberberries...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncps_RYHoAI

Another typical example of why adult discussion on these topics is deemed verboten by the thought police. So you're perfectly happy with a society in which violent scumbags walk the streets with 60+ convictions on a regular basis, and where the likes of Margaret Cash are hailed as heroes for openly wanting to live as parasites. Ok then.

L1011

Silentcorner wrote: »

Nobody want's to live in a society where we live under "a full set" (whatever that is) of conservative ideologies, but nor should we be expected to live under a full set of liberal ideologies....because, you know, some one has to pay tax!

What people like me would like to see is debate....consensus and legislate accordingly, you know, like a proper democracy.

Except your wish list is firmly in the 2%er section.

If you don't feel there is a political party matching your viewpoint, found one. But you'll just continue fighting for the same 2%.

Silentcorner

L1011 wrote: »

Except your wish list is firmly in the 2%er section.

If you don't feel there is a political party matching your viewpoint, found one. But you'll just continue fighting for the same 2%.

Wish list....ah will you give over....by your very logic, FF have consistently presented the most impressive thought our positions on all the issues concerning Irish people since the foundation of this state.

Healthy democracies are well capable of handling alternate ideologies....

Unhealthy democracies can't even discuss them.

L1011

Silentcorner wrote: »

Wish list....ah will you give over....by your very logic, FF have consistently presented the most impressive thought our positions on all the issues concerning Irish people since the foundation of this state.

Healthy democracies are well capable of handling alternate ideologies....

Unhealthy democracies can't even discuss them.

What on earth are you trying to mean by this? It doesn't even vaguely make sense

There are right wing parties - there's been LOADS of them - one facet of our system is that we have lots and lots of parties.

They get their normal, 2% vote as that is the support base for them.

Everlong1

micosoft wrote: »

Re Presidential Election, like a school yard bully, it's easy to get a cheap cheer in the playground by attacking an easy target. But the majority of people grow up and realise what obnoxious behaviour that is let alone they could be targeted one day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncps_RYHoAI

Presumably this is a reference to Peter Casey's Traveller comments. Ah yes, the poor, victimised, downtrodden Travellers. So crushed by all the racism and brutality they face on a daily basis that 150 of them couldn't even travel to Birr to bury one of their dead while the rest of the country has to mourn their dead in private. Oh, hang on a minute…..

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

Wish list....ah will you give over....by your very logic, FF have consistently presented the most impressive thought our positions on all the issues concerning Irish people since the foundation of this state.

Healthy democracies are well capable of handling alternate ideologies....

Unhealthy democracies can't even discuss them.

Irish democracy is well capable of handling alternate ideologies.

It handles your ideology by giving it a tiny number of votes.

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

But Ivan Yates is Irish....

Can't an Irish person have an alternate view without being compared to people in a different country....

If he was happy to jump to the UK to avail of their bankruptcy legislation, he should be happy enough with their political labels.

Silentcorner

L1011 wrote: »

What on earth are you trying to mean by this? It doesn't even vaguely make sense

There are right wing parties - there's been LOADS of them - one facet of our system is that we have lots and lots of parties.

They get their normal, 2% vote as that is the support base for them.

Well, FF are the most successful Political Party in this state, therefore, if your logic is correct....they must have successfully and consistently represented the views of most Irish people all the time.

But we know it's more likely because they are rooted in every constituency and they give away the most stuff!!

The Progressive Democrats got a lot more than 2%...it wasn't until they became FF lite that they declined rapidly.

The PDs are the only political party that most mainstream conservative voters would consider.....FG probably receive those votes right now.

Is it that hard to get your head around the fact that people don't think the same as you....

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Irish democracy is well capable of handling alternate ideologies.

It handles your ideology by giving it a tiny number of votes.

Irish democracy can't even handle providing a decent healthcare to its citizens, will you go away out of that....or a decent public transport network...or a sustainable social welfare system....

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If he was happy to jump to the UK to avail of their bankruptcy legislation, he should be happy enough with their political labels.

Now you are just being petty....

osarusan

Everlong1 wrote: »

Another typical example of why adult discussion on these topics is deemed verboten by the thought police. So you're perfectly happy with a society in which violent scumbags walk the streets with 60+ convictions on a regular basis, and where the likes of Margaret Cash are hailed as heroes for openly wanting to live as parasites. Ok then.

Your first sentence is a lament on the lack of 'adult discussion'. You second sentence is a pathetic strawman argument. I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

rossie1977

Silentcorner wrote: »

Because they are so off the wall is it?

I don't know where you are getting the notion that there are Nationalistic ideas in there....nothing wrong with a bit of EU skepticism, but given our collective nature's attitude to free stuff only a complete moran would advocate for us to leave the EU...

Feel free to object or disagree with any of those issues....that what healthy public discourse is about!!

The belief that our law and order is weak is a nationalistic trait.

There are issues sure but one thing we don't want is to turn Ireland into a police state or we have people serving life sentences for non violent crime.

L1011

Silentcorner wrote: »

Is it that hard to get your head around the fact that people don't think the same as you....

For you in your 2% bubble thinking that there's actually more than 2% like you, clearly.

Silentcorner

rossie1977 wrote: »

The belief that our law and order is weak is a nationalistic trait.

There are issues sure but one thing we don't want is to turn Ireland into a police state or we have people serving life sentences for non violent crime.

Jesus Christ...

What is a nationalistic trait?

Who is suggesting people serve life for non violent crimes....you are making leaps so huge I can't keep up with you.

Ash.J.Williams

Emmaline Tender Fowl wrote: »

This interests me on a number of levels.

I know the politics of a number of countries quite well and I noticed that in each one of them, both the liberal and conservative (mostly in the social sense) parts of the population have their own media outlets - nationwide TV, newspapers, major websites, even colleges. They also each have political parties which represent their views.

However, this does not seem to exist in Ireland, where a massive sway towards the liberal side exists. I cannot think of a single major newspaper or TV station that would cater to the conservative section of the population. Moreover, I cannot think of a single major political party that would be socially conservative.

I think it would be fair to say that the three biggest social issues of the day which divide liberals and conservatives are abortion, homosexual unions and mass Muslim migration (maybe EU membership, at a push). The referendums on the first two were by no means a landslide, and migration still does not have consensus. Yet if one was to look at the media/politics of this country, it would seem that pro-lifers, advocates of traditional marriage and immigration skeptics do not exist.

Why is that? Is it a) conservatives just fail to organize, b) they do not care about propagating their views or maybe c) they are somehow outmaneuvered/suppressed in society by the liberal media giants (yes, "giants" in the Irish sense).

With public discourse controlled by liberal-leaning media and politicians, is it time to declare that conservatism is the new counter-culture?

i think when you only recognize left right /liberal conservative you have nothing to say

Silentcorner

L1011 wrote: »

For you in your 2% bubble thinking that there's actually more than 2% like you, clearly.

OK....as I said earlier, I'll respectfully disagree.

mariaalice

They represent a very small amount of the electorate, now you could argue that the daft left represents a very small percentage of the electorate and they got a lot of exposure. The difference is the daft left are actual political parties based on a set of ideologies the daft right in an Irish context are made up of mostly cranks with issues like 5G or immigration policies based on xenophobia or extreme religious beliefs.

This fella use to get a bit of an outing at one stage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declan_Ganley

Also culture might have something to do with it.

.

ILoveYourVibes

Iona only represented a tiny minority they were all over the media during the abortion ref. Same with the gay marriage ref.


They are over represented.

Lux23

There are a good few columnists that are conservative, namely:

David Quinn
Mary Kenny
Breda O’Brien
Prof. Patricia Casey
Ruth Dudley Edwards

I think politically, parties that are fiscally conservative might do better in the polls, but the problem is they are socially conservative too and these views aren't very widely held in Ireland anymore. Most people think we should mind our own business when it comes to how other people live their lives. Even though 1 in 3 people voted to retain the 8th, these people didn't stop voting for FG and FF for their stance on the issue.

mariaalice

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Iona only represented a tiny minority they were all over the media during the abortion ref. Same with the gay marriage ref.


They are over represented.

That is only because the media are legally obliged to have a balance and the IONA was the group the media latched on to its not a conspiracy.

Eric Cartman

Lux23 wrote: »

There are a good few columnists that are conservative, namely:

David Quinn
Mary Kenny
Breda O’Brien
Prof. Patricia Casey
Ruth Dudley Edwards

I think politically, parties that are fiscally conservative might do better in the polls, but the problem is they are socially conservative too and these views aren't very widely held in Ireland anymore. Most people think we should mind our own business when it comes to how other people live their lives. Even though 1 in 3 people voted to retain the 8th, these people didn't stop voting for FG and FF for their stance on the issue.

Thats the real issue. We haven't had a fiscal conservative run on a non socially conservative platform. Leo used to represent this but when he climbed the ranks in FG became more concerned about twitter likes than fiscal responsibility and so didn't touch off the hard choices.

mariaalice

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000c8rz

John Gray ponders why the belief that the human world can be completely and suddenly transformed, never really goes away.

It very good on the ideas around.. follow us paradise is just around the corner.

ILoveYourVibes

mariaalice wrote: »

That is only because the media are legally obliged to have a balance and the IONA was the group the media latched on to its not a conspiracy.

I am not suggesting a conspiracy. I am suggestion a monopoly.

You know Denis O'Brien owns Newstalk right?

Acosta

News media in Ireland is fairly balanced when it comes to contributors from both conservative and liberal backgrounds. However as far as I can see editorial control usually falls in line with the government. And we've never had a liberal government. Perhaps both main parties are not as conservative as they were, but that's not saying much given what Ireland used to be like for decades. There's a reason many people in the media end up working in FF and FG.

As I said news media is fairly balanced. When it comes to the last couple of referendums it's hardly surprising that the liberal arguments won the day considering they were up against a very small band of well known evangelical catholics. And even though these people failed miserably to convince people in these referendums, the media still wheel the same heads out to discuss many different topics. If moderate conservatives are going to continue to be happy with David, Breda, Maria etc making their arguments for them in future discussions on liberalising law or institutions, then they will continue to lose.