Why are Irish conservatives not represented in the media/politics?

SnazzyPig

Christ, another thread of the usual sh!t.


Time to give Boards a miss.

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

I didn't realise I was in a Dail Committee here...

I know of it through my own knowledge of parts of my city, people who have worked with Community Groups in Glascow, a city that has had huge success in dealing with severe criminality and social dysfunction....

Everything this state touches either costs a fortune, turns to pot, or both in my experience.

Just a shame there is no paper or report on the successes of Glasgow? Do you think that there might be some bloke in Glasgow complaining about the quangos paying good money over there?

Which quangos were you referring to here BTW?

steddyeddy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

There is no media voice in Ireland that even vaguely echoes the British Conservative party . There is an over representation of the left in all facets of the Irish media.

What British Conservative party? There's many different incarnations with radically different views. The current version led by Boris Johnson is a complete mess of because of Brexit.

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just a shame there is no paper or report on the successes of Glasgow? Do you think that there might be some bloke in Glasgow complaining about the quangos paying good money over there?

Which quangos were you referring to here BTW?

If you are so determined to drag this thread off topic do your own research...

Here....look for the Quangos in here ...

https://quangos-ireland.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Irish_Quangos

Then google Regeneration Limerick which cost the taxpayer about 400 million which was essentially a complete waste of time and money....

mariaalice

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you are so determined to drag this thread off topic do your own research...

Here....look for the Quangos in here ...

https://quangos-ireland.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Irish_Quangos

Then google Regeneration Limerick which cost the taxpayer about 400 million which was essentially a complete waste of time and money....

Universities, the ESB, Art gallery are quangos?

CtevenSrowder

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's the cost of locking someone up for life? And how does it compare to better investment in education and housing?

I don't know. However someone who ends up with 100+ convictions isn't and is highly unlikely to ever be of any benefit to society, regardless of how we invest in education and housing. If there is not severe punishment for these types of consistent offenders they will not change imo.

mariaalice

Society is not preferable.

mariaalice

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

The artsy-fartsy types always tend to want UBI so they concentrate on their vanity projects.

I was replying to a thread in AH, the artsy types are the ones who should get UBI they have the ability to entertain themselves and are unlikely take to massive amounts of alcohol or drug out of boredom and becomes a problem for society.

CtevenSrowder

mariaalice wrote: »

I was replying to a thread in AH, the artsy types are the ones who should get UBI they have the ability to entertain themselves and are unlikely take to massive amounts of alcohol or drug out of boredom and becomes a problem for society.

I'll delete the post so if you posted in the wrong thread.

ArmaniJeanss

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

I don't know. However someone who ends up with 100+ convictions isn't and is highly unlikely to ever be of any benefit to society, regardless of how we invest in education and housing. If there is not severe punishment for these types of consistent offenders they will not change imo.

People who get caught red-handed doing one burglary often hold their hands up to another 80 in the area over the previous couple of years. There's an incentive to do this, the guards get to close cases and have shinier figures, victims get some sort of closure. The convicted person actually gets credit for this at sentencing. It's fairly warped logic.

But the corollary is that if we changed the system to lock someone up for life with 50+ convictions, then no-one would hold their hands up for these 'taken into account' cases. All the individual in my first paragraph would get is 1 conviction for the one they'd been caught red-handed on, no satisfactory evidence to charge/convict on the other 80.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

mariaalice wrote: »

I was replying to a thread in AH, the artsy types are the ones who should get UBI they have the ability to entertain themselves and are unlikely take to massive amounts of alcohol or drug out of boredom and becomes a problem for society.

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

I'll delete the post so if you posted in the wrong thread.

What's an "artsy-fartsy" type or have you guys sunk to name-calling?

CtevenSrowder

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What's an "artsy-fartsy" type or have you guys sunk to name-calling?

An artsy-fartsy person to me is someone who thinks that their art is some sort of World alternating creation, get upset when noone cares about it, and/or want to be subsidised by the tax payer when it's clear that they are not good enough to sustain themselves full time through their chosen profession.

I'm a supporter of the arts for the cultural value it brings to Ireland (and other countries) aswell as the money and jobs it creates. But there are many pretentious arseholes involved in it (more so in Britain in my experience) who seem to think they've some divine right to do what they do and be successful.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

An artsy-fartsy person to me is someone who thinks that their art is some sort of World alternating creation, get upset when noone cares about it, and/or want to be subsidised by the tax payer when it's clear that they are not good enough to sustain themselves full time through their chosen profession.

I'm a supporter of the arts for the cultural value it brings to Ireland (and other countries) aswell as the money and jobs it creates. But there are many pretentious arseholes involved in it (more so in Britain in my experience) who seem to think they've some divine right to do what they do and be successful.

Fair enough. Came across as a philestine-esque view refering to all artists and expressive people though, to be honest.

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you are so determined to drag this thread off topic do your own research...

Here....look for the Quangos in here ...

https://quangos-ireland.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Irish_Quangos

Then google Regeneration Limerick which cost the taxpayer about 400 million which was essentially a complete waste of time and money....

Just seems strange that you can say with such certainty that there are 'loads of quangos, paying good money and achieving little' but you can't identify the quang in question. Is this another one of your makey-uppey complaints like the mythical gender quotas?

And that Limerick project that achieved nothing - would that be the same Limerick that was in the headlines every week with yet another drug killing or serious assault but has gone all quiet in recent years?

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just seems strange that you can say with such certainty that there are 'loads of quangos, paying good money and achieving little' but you can't identify the quang in question. Is this another one of your makey-uppey complaints like the mythical gender quotas?

And that Limerick project that achieved nothing - would that be the same Limerick that was in the headlines every week with yet another drug killing or serious assault but has gone all quiet in recent years?

Sure....I'm making it all up....


The success of Garda Siochana had nothing to do with Regeneration....that is off the wall to suggest...it'd be like crediting the unrelenting media coverage of the issue with resolving the issue.

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/08/09/the-quango-list/

https://search.benefacts.ie/results?q=limerick&i=entitiesindex&p=1&pp=10&county=LIMERICK

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/quangos-still-springing-up-as-agency-bill-tops-13bn-26699498.html

The world of Quangos is very murky, while some are necessary and do go work...it's the land of questionable return on investment.

The Irish State has an almost child like attitude toward spending taxpayers money....

And some political entity will have to curb it, or the IMF will have to......again.

CrabRevolution

It's like a political version of the Fermi Paradox. The Fermi paradox points out the contradiction between how:

-Many well founded models say it's extremely probable that alien life exists or existed, if not a certainty.

-Despite this, we have never once observed any evidence whatsoever of alien life yet.

In this instance though it's people insisting that Ireland is ripe for a powerful, well supported proper conservative party. Yet at the same time there's no observable evidence for such a thing, and any parties that fit the ideological criteria barely poll above the margin of error.

James Brown

I've never seen a truly fiscally prudent conservative party.
For example ensuring everyone earned enough that they could save a little towards retirement would be great for the country and help alleviate any pension time bomb.
Many similar areas so called conservatives won't touch because it upsets their backers from within private industry.

We had generations under the yoke of Catholic conservatism, thankfully many have died off and many more feel freed from it.

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

Sure....I'm making it all up....


The success of Garda Siochana had nothing to do with Regeneration....that is off the wall to suggest...it'd be like crediting the unrelenting media coverage of the issue with resolving the issue.

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/08/09/the-quango-list/

https://search.benefacts.ie/results?q=limerick&i=entitiesindex&p=1&pp=10&county=LIMERICK

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/quangos-still-springing-up-as-agency-bill-tops-13bn-26699498.html

The world of Quangos is very murky, while some are necessary and do go work...it's the land of questionable return on investment.

The Irish State has an almost child like attitude toward spending taxpayers money....

And some political entity will have to curb it, or the IMF will have to......again.

2 articles 8-10 years old, and a list of NGOs including Limerick Boat Club and Legion of Mary Limerick? What's that supposed to prove?

And fascinating that you're still not able to identify which specific quangos you are talking about that are paying good money and achieving little. Are you just making it up as you go along?

AndrewJRenko

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

I don't know. However someone who ends up with 100+ convictions isn't and is highly unlikely to ever be of any benefit to society, regardless of how we invest in education and housing. If there is not severe punishment for these types of consistent offenders they will not change imo.

Do you think that maybe we should check out the costs before we go down these roads?

How is 'severe punishment' working out as a deterrent in other countries?

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

2 articles 8-10 years old, and a list of NGOs including Limerick Boat Club and Legion of Mary Limerick? What's that supposed to prove?

And fascinating that you're still not able to identify which specific quangos you are talking about that are paying good money and achieving little. Are you just making it up as you go along?

But why is it fascinating though...these lists are not readily available and I don't have the time or inclination to put resources into naming quangos I have been told exists (40 approx)...because some bloke on the internet, who has been attempting to undermine me consistently since the beginning of this thread, is feigning surprise that I can't provide a list he knows full well I can't provide ....as opposed to actually talk about any issue I mentioned(outside of one point of order)....

You had the nerve to accuse me of dragging the thread off topic when I asked you to elaborate on a point....

Hold yourself to the same standards and don't be so petty...

CtevenSrowder

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you think that maybe we should check out the costs before we go down these roads?

How is 'severe punishment' working out as a deterrent in other countries?

No I don't. People with 100 plus convictions are of no benefit to society, and are unlikely in the extreme to ever be. One with such a number of convictions is going to continue to use up Gardai time and cause continuous disruption in their community. As someone on the left such as yourself should know, its not always about money . My answer is to take them of the streets. Your answer is to let them continue on their destructive merry way.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Silentcorner wrote: »

But why is it fascinating though...these lists are not readily available and I don't have the time or inclination to put resources into naming quangos I have been told exists (40 approx)...because some bloke on the internet, who has been attempting to undermine me consistently since the beginning of this thread, is feigning surprise that I can't provide a list he knows full well I can't provide ....as opposed to actually talk about any issue I mentioned(outside of one point of order)....

You had the nerve to accuse me of dragging the thread off topic when I asked you to elaborate on a point....

Hold yourself to the same standards and don't be so petty...

I see you have learnt absolutely nothing about the perils of assumption from our little chat yesterday.

Silentcorner

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I see you have learnt absolutely nothing about the perils of assumption from our little chat yesterday.

What the f##k are you on about?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Silentcorner wrote: »

What the f##k are you on about?

These.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ypu mean this one?



Nearly every single one of them is loaded, but it's a fair illustraion.

But I think you'll find that these policies simply do not have enough support because Irish people see the policies rationally and go on actual information rather than emotionally sensationalist attention-grabbing words like "crisis" and "epidemic".

Here's an example, containing three loaded assumptions:
"The role the EU has on social issues, ie, the Gender Deconstruction Theory that our kids are now being exposed to in their classrooms."
- What role?
- What Gender Deconstruction Theory?
- What exposure in classrooms?
And more importantly, why do you think we should assume these things exist wihtout provided evidence?

These are merely your opinions that you are trying to pass off as facts and most Irish people are aware of such tricks and see them for what they are.

And THAT is why there is no support for a conservative party holding those views in Ireland.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You don't appear to know what the phrase "loading" means.

The idea that it is a crisis is your opinion. Doesnt make it a crisis. Presenting the idea in the guise of a crisis is loading the phrase.
Now, this doesn't mean that you are wrong. Nor does me pointing it out to you making it wrong.

Nor does me pointing it out mean that I disagree with you.

Furthermore, saying to me "pretending there [sic] aren't crisis or epidemics...." is also loading the phrase with the assumption that I don't see them as such. I haven't commented one way or ther other because you haven't illustrated the alleged crisis.

Also - just to be 100% clear - I'm not debating whether or not something is or isn't an actual "crisis" - just your use of the word as loading.

And again - having to resort to loaded langauge is what puts people off political stances. If it's fact, presnt the facts. If it's not, don't load.

And now this one:

Silentcorner wrote: »

But why is it fascinating though...these lists are not readily available and I don't have the time or inclination to put resources into naming quangos I have been told exists (40 approx)...because some bloke on the internet, who has been attempting to undermine me consistently since the beginning of this thread, is feigning surprise that I can't provide a list he knows full well I can't provide ....as opposed to actually talk about any issue I mentioned(outside of one point of order)....

You had the nerve to accuse me of dragging the thread off topic when I asked you to elaborate on a point....

Hold yourself to the same standards and don't be so petty...

Who told you? What did they say?

So yes. Assumption. You believe what you want to believe and don't check for validity.

Silentcorner

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

These.





And now this one:



Who told you? What did they say?

So yes. Assumption. You believe what you want to believe and don't check for validity.

NONE of this is related to the OP....none of it....

You are free to disbelieve any anecdotal statement from anyone....I don't care either way.

As you can see, I am not bothered that someone would have an alternate view of politics or public discourse in this country I believe it to be healthy.

But I am not going to dance for people who have a problem with believing an alternate view of politics exists.....I honestly don't give a f##k that you think you are in a position to be lecturing me about "the perils of assumptions" if it makes you feel good go for it!!!

2ndcoming

I think I can see the manifesto of your party forming -

- Not religious
- Women belong in the kitchen
- Death to shoplifters / miscreant teens
- Forced labour camps for the unemployed

Sounds lovely.

Silentcorner

2ndcoming wrote: »

I think I can see the manifesto of your party forming -

- Not religious
- Women belong in the kitchen
- Death to shoplifters / miscreant teens
- Forced labour camps for the unemployed

Sounds lovely.

What are you smoking?

Mad_maxx

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Probably to do with over prominience various Iona Institute people have on Irelands media.

they are a particular sub group within conservativism , they have little opinion on the broader conservative positions, ive never once heard david quinn advocate for lower taxes

john mcguirk is about the only prominent conservative voice with a profile and most people have not even heard of him i imagine , karl deeter would be a fiscal conservative , again he is not especially well known

not a single conservative voice can be found at rte

Mad_maxx

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you tried listening to Newstalk? Or watching Ivan and Matt's gammon fest on VMTV? Or reading the Business Post or the Mail?

matt cooper is as PC liberal as they come , ivan yates believes in nothing , hes a professional wind up merchant , hes not a conservative , hes not anything bar a chancer

Mad_maxx

Everlong1 wrote: »

But here's the thing: who's orchestrating the hysteria that ensues when a conservative raises their head? It's not Joe or Jane Public, who may well want to hear these issues discussed in a frank and open manner. It's the Fintan O'Tooles and their ilk who are stifling any real debate and who seem to have a ready made audience. In part this is probably a backlash against generations of Church rule, but it's high time we moved on. If people can vote SF and forget about the kind of atrocities that party condoned we should be willing to vote conservative and not assume we'll be plunged back into the Middle Ages era of sexual mores.

the PC liberal media are the church in ireland today , the secular clergy who let us know what the " correct " opinions to hold are , the church used to do that

as a people we hate not going with the crowd , we used to be conservative en masse , now we are the other way

by the way OP , id add the issue of direct provision to the list , the only thing we hear from the media is that direct provision is an abomination and that everyone who resides there is unquestionably sincere in terms of their backstory , colm o gorman can be relied upon to confirm this whilst been given a foot massage by aine lawlor or mary wilson