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Ireland vs New Zealand

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    #152
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Morrison J wrote: »
    Scotland is pursuing the zero covid strategy and Sturgeon is calling for a 4-nation zero-Covid strategy. There's no reason we couldn't hold our hand up and push to be part of that.
    It's a complete misnomer as a term as it is not a COVID free environment strategy.


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    #153
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    faceman wrote: »
    How many times does this need to be pointed out?

    * We aren’t an isolated island

    * We share a land border with another sovereign state

    * We are heavily reliant on international trade and operate in single market with 26 other countries.

    Weak excuses for mediocrity.


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    #154
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    i_surge wrote: »
    Weak excuses for mediocrity.
    Sure it is, let's see your plan!


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    #155
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's also a reminder of how undeniably smug they've been about how well they've done. Other countries have also broken 100 days without cases and haven't thought to announce to the world how fantastic they are. Not sure how many of these mini-lockdowns they could do if cases appear in the future.

    Sounds like you're just jealous more than anything to be honest. Imagine how outrageously smug we'd be if we only had 22 deaths and went 100 days without a case. We'd be unbearable and rightly so really.


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    #156
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,391 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's also a reminder of how undeniably smug they've been about how well they've done. Other countries have also broken 100 days without cases and haven't thought to announce to the world how fantastic they are. Not sure how many of these mini-lockdowns they could do if cases appear in the future.

    List the other countries

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #157
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Morrison J wrote: »
    Sounds like you're just jealous more than anything to be honest. Imagine how outrageously smug we'd be if we only had 22 deaths and went 100 days without a case. We'd be unbearable and rightly so really.
    Not a bit, we'd be relieved but still fretting, just like other countries who went 100 days without. They crowed very loudly about it , screwed up in their quarantine and now they have more cases. You don't beat this thing, not without vaccines, you manage it. If you are like NZ , where you can keep everyone out that can be close to zero cases.


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    #158
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not a bit, we'd be relieved but still fretting, just like other countries who went 100 days without. They crowed very loudly about it , screwed up in their quarantine and now they have more cases. You don't beat this thing, not without vaccines, you manage it. If you are like NZ , where you can keep everyone out that can be close to zero cases.

    Well let's all agree that they are "managing" better than most.


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    #159
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    List the other countries

    China(Wuhan), Taiwan and Vietnam, the latter two now have cases.


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    #160
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    i_surge wrote: »
    Well let's all agree that they are "managing" better than most.
    Which is what they are doing, just like everyone else, not beating it. What they've done is very good but the PR around it not so much.


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    #161
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Which is what they are doing, just like everyone else, not beating it. What they've done is very good but the PR around it not so much.

    No, not like everyone else.

    They are leading the way by example, we are failing to follow it.


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    #162
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Morrison J wrote: »
    Aye I'm aware. That's how the zero strategy works. In the case that a cluster shows you use quick shutdowns in small territories to hunt the virus out. This wouldn't be an unexpected measure. The airports are still partially open subject to testing on arrival. Testing isn't completely foolproof yet (you may test negative in the very early stages of contracting the virus) but is only going to get better and quicker.
    The fact that 4 cases makes headlines shows how well NZ have done if anything to be honest.

    New infections in a country who's supposedly an example to the world of how a zero covid strategy can work getting 4 cases seemingly out of nowhere, and who's to say there's not a large number of undetected cases?

    Now they are going backwards again, 4 positive cases, 1.6 million people locked down again and a "Stage 2" lockdown for the rest of the country...
    The pursuit of a zero covid strategy has them now starting to go back and forth again, each time a flare sparks up they close down again, wait until it's gone and await the next flare up... NZ citizens hard fought freedoms gone again, this has to take a toll on the population over the priority of Covid elimination over everything.


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    #163
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    i_surge wrote: »
    No, not like everyone else.

    They are leading the way by example, we are failing to follow it.
    They can close borders, we can't. There's that inconvenience of freedom of movement in the EU. And then there's the population density and the remote location in their favour. Our failings predominantly came in care homes and from a weak testing regime. A lot of the rest we've got pretty much right.


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    #164
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,914 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Tenzor07 wrote: »

    Now they are going backwards again, 4 positive cases, 1.6 million people locked down again and a "Stage 2" lockdown for the rest of the country...
    The pursuit of a zero covid strategy has them now starting to go back and forth again, each time a flare sparks up they close down again, wait until it's gone and await the next flare up...

    Pretty much the same as we're doing in Kildare.


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    #165
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Pretty much the same as we're doing in Kildare.

    NZ is putting the rest of the country into a Stage 2 lockdown...

    The fact that Ireland is still under the Stage 3 Lockdown conditions means both countries have pretty much identical levels of restrictions..


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    #166
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    is_that_so wrote: »
    They can close borders we can't. There's that inconvenience of freedom of movement in the EU. And then there's the population density and the remote location.

    Nothing stopping us working with NI on that for the greater good. Just a lack of ambition.

    EU freedom of movement can be suspended on health grounds, just some repatriation allowed, just like it was up until recently. Non argument.


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    #167
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    NZ is putting the rest of the country into a Stage 2 lockdown...

    The fact that Ireland is still under the Stage 3 Lockdown conditions means both countries have pretty much identical levels of restrictions..

    And a huge difference in risk, health and economic.


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    #168
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Pretty much the same as we're doing in Kildare.
    TBF there are an awful lot more cases in the Midlands, we certainly wouldn't have a lockdown for 4 community cases.


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    #169
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    i_surge wrote: »
    Nothing stopping us working with NI on that for the greater good. Just a lack of ambition.

    EU freedom of movement can be suspended on health grounds, just some repatriation allowed, just like it was up until recently. Non argument.
    How can it be suspended? It's a core right.


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    #170
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    is_that_so wrote: »
    How can it be suspended? It's a core right.

    Turn your clock back a few months to see for yourself.


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    #171
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    New infections in a country who's supposedly an example to the world of how a zero covid strategy can work getting 4 cases seemingly out of nowhere, and who's to say there's not a large number of undetected cases?

    Now they are going backwards again, 4 positive cases, 1.6 million people locked down again and a "Stage 2" lockdown for the rest of the country...
    The pursuit of a zero covid strategy has them now starting to go back and forth again, each time a flare sparks up they close down again, wait until it's gone and await the next flare up... NZ citizens hard fought freedoms gone again, this has to take a toll on the population over the priority of Covid elimination over everything.

    They had cases before and hunted them out before going on a streak of 100 days without a case. I'd expect them to do the same here tbh.

    At the end of the day theyre locking down in order to get everything open and fully functioning again. We're locking down in order to live beside the virus which in my opinion is a fairly grim experience. We're basically pissing into the wind with no real end to this in sight. NZ are striving back to normality. There's such a massive difference in that.

    In Ireland if you work in the arts, sport, hospitality etc your sector is on its knees and many are a lockdown away from being jobless. In NZ you're coming off 100 days of normal business. Think there's a larger toll on the population in a country like Ireland to be honest.


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    #172
    httpete
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭httpete


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    New infections in a country who's supposedly an example to the world of how a zero covid strategy can work getting 4 cases seemingly out of nowhere, and who's to say there's not a large number of undetected cases?

    Now they are going backwards again, 4 positive cases, 1.6 million people locked down again and a "Stage 2" lockdown for the rest of the country...
    The pursuit of a zero covid strategy has them now starting to go back and forth again, each time a flare sparks up they close down again, wait until it's gone and await the next flare up... NZ citizens hard fought freedoms gone again, this has to take a toll on the population over the priority of Covid elimination over everything.

    They will handle these 4 cases just like the handled the original outbreak. This will be absolutely trivial for them compared to when covid first struck and they upwards of 80 cases a day.

    And then they will be back open again fully like they have been for the past 3+ months. While, we will have no pubs, nightclubs, festivals, gigs, regional lockdowns, and generally massive inconvenience..and we are facing years of this.


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    #173
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    i_surge wrote: »
    Turn your clock back a few months to see for yourself.

    That was individual countries acting individually. Here's a list of EU competences. Which one of these allows for the suspension of freedom of movement in the EU?

    https://europa.eu/citizens-initiative/faq-eu-competences-and-commission-powers_en#EU-competences


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    #174
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Morrison J wrote: »
    They had cases before and hunted them out before going on a streak of 100 days without a case. I'd expect them to do the same here tbh.

    At the end of the day theyre locking down in order to get everything open and fully functioning again. We're locking down in order to live beside the virus which in my opinion is a fairly grim experience. We're basically pissing into the wind with no real end to this in sight. NZ are striving back to normality. There's such a massive difference in that.

    In Ireland if you work in the arts, sport, hospitality etc your sector is on its knees and many are a lockdown away from being jobless. In NZ you're coming off 100 days of normal business. Think there's a larger toll on the population in a country like Ireland to be honest.

    The only person talking sense here. Nobody likes lockdown, that's why so many argue against the proposal. To me it is a ticket to freedom, I don't see any alternative that doesn't involve years of this half life.


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    #175
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That was individual countries acting individually. Here's a list of EU competences. Which one of these allows for the suspension of freedom of movement?

    https://europa.eu/citizens-initiative/faq-eu-competences-and-commission-powers_en#EU-competences

    Borders were shut a few months ago. 100% fact.


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    #176
    wassie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,530 ✭✭✭wassie


    Everyone does realise that the NZ lockdown is only for 3 days.....


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    #177
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    httpete wrote: »
    They will handle these 4 cases just like the handled the original outbreak. This will be absolutely trivial for them compared to when covid first struck and they upwards of 80 cases a day.

    And then they will be back open again fully like they have been for the past 3+ months. While, we will have no pubs, nightclubs, festivals, gigs, regional lockdowns, and generally massive inconvenience..and we are facing years of this.

    Pubs will get the nod in September and some of the other stuff later in the year. Clubs are done for the year and we may be better placed for larger gatherings in 2021.


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    #178
    dalyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    i_surge wrote: »
    Nothing stopping us working with NI on that for the greater good. Just a lack of ambition.

    EU freedom of movement can be suspended on health grounds, just some repatriation allowed, just like it was up until recently. Non argument.

    Irradiation of the virus is not without its noble merits BUT.. So we lock down GB and Ireland by building a virtual viral wall around our islands. Then what ?

    How long do we stay with this status ? Once we let down our borders again it’s viral infection time again. Mind you this is after we overcome the mother of all political nightmare diplomacy with our EU trading zone.

    Additionally we would need “buy in” from the public in all our proposed lockdown locations (People have families outside of Ireland & UK and need / deserve access) , business people have external interests and investments too. Whose to compensate these losses?

    Fact is this virus could be with us decades (as it stands presently) and we need feasibility in our strategy.

    As I say it’s a Nobel idea however logistically and executably it’s a pure fantasy.


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    #179
    httpete
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭httpete


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Pubs will get the nod in September and some of the other stuff later in the year. Clubs are done for the year and we may be better placed for larger gatherings in 2021.

    How will they get the nod? They delayed the pubs re-opening in mid-July when cases numbers were approx. 20 per day. How have things gone since the last time they didn't get the nod?

    If they couldn't re-open at 20 cases per day then I am assuming their criteria for re-opening is that they can be confident the numbers can be kept below 20 per day. Do you see us getting to a sustained level of less than 20 new cases a day?

    Unless there is a strong policy change the numbers are not going back down to the level needed.

    It is logical to deduce that based on the criteria for re-opening and how our numbers have been going, and likely will go, that the pubs are done for years since we are reliant on a vaccine being developed. Of course, I imagine a politician can't come straight and say this.


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    #180
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That was individual countries acting individually. Here's a list of EU competences. Which one of these allows for the suspension of freedom of movement in the EU?

    https://europa.eu/citizens-initiative/faq-eu-competences-and-commission-powers_en#EU-competences

    Doesn't matter, you just said it can be done, we are an individual country.


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    #181
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    dalyboy wrote: »
    .

    Additionally we would need “buy in” from the public in all our proposed lockdown locations (People have families outside of Ireland & UK and need / deserve access) , business people have external interests and investments too. Whose to compensate these losses?

    This is a non-issue really. We'd allow people to still fly but they'll have to undertake mandatory testing on arrival at Dublin airport and to take another test a couple of days later to ensure they don't have the virus before they exit quarantine.


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