Will you download the contact tracing app?

Riflecreek

Riflecreek wrote: »

Presumably such risk averse individuals don't leave their house for fear of being stung by a wasp.

That’s not a wasp. It’s a COVID COVID tracker.

GarIT

Sardonicat wrote: »

What's wrong with the contact tracing being done here to date?

You don't know everyone you sat near in the pub or restaurant or cinema or park or supermarket, or public transport.

plodder

Sardonicat wrote: »

What's wrong with the contact tracing being done here to date?

It depends on you knowing the people you were in contact with which doesn't work in many public settings like shops, public transport etc. The two approaches complement each other.

Sardonicat

Sardonicat wrote: »

What's wrong with the contact tracing being done here to date?

As we return to a more normal life with public interactions, we are less likely to be able to recall or have contact details for all our daily contacts. That's were apps like this come in - it picks up on some of these contacts a reduces the risk for untraced community transmission.

Hannibal_Smith

I was watching the briefing this morning and what I got from it was, the app will (via Bluetooth) sync with anyone you're within 2 metres of for 10-15 mins. But no one knows or is notified of thatyet.

If you're unfortunate to test positive for covid, the nurse or doctor or whatever will ask whether you have the app and whether they can upload the info.

So the info is put in and then it's sent to somewhere in Galway and they'll review your data and see whatever devices you were within 2 metres of for 10-15 mins. It will send that device through the app a notification telling them this and if you have registered your phone number they will call you and let you know, if not it will give you a number to call.

KyussB

fly_agaric wrote: »

That is not making sense to me. I've read the laymans explanation, not the code or a more complete technical spec or whatever.

AFAU the random codes are supposed to represent the anonymous contact (person with the app on their phone) that came "close enough" for the 10-15 min (doesn't actually matter when or where that actually happened for scheme to work, which is good for privacy - could have been anywhere in Ireland, could have been any time within last 14 days [if using what I think is supposed to be maximum incubation time for this disease]).

How do you bundle a group of such random codes together as an entity in itself to represent the "contact" occurring? You cannot I think unless also tracking the timing of the generation of ids...so you actually need to collect more information (a much more exact timing) if the unique ids are being cycled very rapidly. Also adding to complexity (more codes [no expert but generating pseudorandom numbers./avoiding clashes etc can get tricky], more data, mroe copu use on the phone]. It is not all as "simple" as you are making out imo, and whatever you think about the +s and -s of their effect on our world, the 2 "showers" who developed the apis have a lot of extremely smart people beavering away for them.

I believe that when uploading your UID's after infection, the app doesn't filter them it just uploads the lot of them - then sends the lot of them to all other app users - and the other app users compare them against their contacts list.

So, there wouldn't be added information to track, other users would just match multiple UID's from you if they were in contact.

average_runner

Good to see the source code for the app is available to inspect.

ExMachina1000

Van.Bosch wrote: »

So if you get Covid and pass it on to someone close who gets it bad. Will you be happy you passed up a chance to have had it flagged earlier so you could have stayed away?

I'd say you are a panicky Peter.

El Weirdo

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Presumably if someone tests positive they have to be asked if they're using the app and only then will people in close contact know

This is exactly what happens.

peterofthebr

i installed it this morning. wary of data tracking being misused. but i can always uninstall it if there is abuses
... recall story of a woman on a bus in Wuhan (soon after they opened up again) while on phone got another call, but didnt answer it. person sitting to the woman (who didnt know her) then got a call asking him to tell the passenger to answer her phone...as it was relating to being in area with spike in covid cases!- china are using some very impressive AI tech for tracking, but completely gives people no privacy..

hetuzozaho

peterofthebr wrote: »

i installed it this morning. wary of data tracking being misused. but i can always uninstall it if there is abuses
... recall story of a woman on a bus in Wuhan (soon after they opened up again) while on phone got another call, but didnt answer it. person sitting to the woman (who didnt know her) then got a call asking him to tell the passenger to answer her phone...as it was relating to being in area with spike in covid cases!- china are using some very impressive AI tech for tracking, but completely gives people no privacy..

All that tech and someone had to ring someone to give someone else a message

ixoy

Jesus Christ, I just realised someone was flying a drone in the park when I was there yesterday. Thankfully I just installed the app today but close call! :eek:

banie01

Already downloaded it. I'm in a fairly at risk category and the app isn't just about keeping me safe.
Its about keeping others safe too.

I've a fairly broad based tech background most recently in Telecoms and Compliance/Regulatory.
With that hat on, the app is as anonymous and GDPR compliant as it can be and I'm happy to use it.

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As we return to a more normal life with public interactions, we are less likely to be able to recall or have contact details for all our daily contacts. That's were apps like this come in - it picks up on some of these contacts a reduces the risk for untraced community transmission.

Or how about we comtinue with the restrictions, observe hygiene and social distancing guidelines until such a time as a vaccine is developed? An app is not going to prevent a new surge. People being identified via contact tracing now are not presenting for testing . This app isn't going to change that, just make people even more complacent. It's an excuse for opening up before we are ready and we will rue the day.

listermint

Sardonicat wrote: »

Or how about we comtinue with the restrictions, observe hygiene and social distancing guidelines until such a time as a vaccine is developed? An app is not going to prevent a new surge. People being identified via contact tracing now are not presenting for testing . This app isn't going to change that, just make people even more complacent. It's an excuse for opening up before we are ready and we will rue the day.

An app will do exactly that. Prevent new surges with information.


You are wrong.


Quite simply.

ixoy

Sardonicat wrote: »

This app isn't going to change that, just make people even more complacent. It's an excuse for opening up before we are ready and we will rue the day.

Huh? How is the app an excuse for easing restrictions and when was that ever claimed?
It's an additional armament for contact tracing and a much better one than people trying to remember everyone they were in contact with. It's an "in addition to" not an "instead of".

LuckyLloyd

Downloaded and opted in to the full extent. I think it’s a tremendous achievement and will hopefully help us fight the second wave.

This is a collective national effort. Do your part.

murpho999

Sardonicat wrote: »

Or how about we comtinue with the restrictions, observe hygiene and social distancing guidelines until such a time as a vaccine is developed? An app is not going to prevent a new surge. People being identified via contact tracing now are not presenting for testing . This app isn't going to change that, just make people even more complacent. It's an excuse for opening up before we are ready and we will rue the day.

So you don't think people who have been in contact with a carrier that receive that information and then self isolate will not help the spread?

You think it will help identify clusters and flare ups?

WHO have said that good data is a essential to help scientists stop the spread of the virus and this app will definitely provide good data.

DavyD_83

Hadn't realised it was released yet to I saw this thread.
Just read a little about it and have downloaded.
Seems to make sense, haven't seen any genuine/credible arguments against it at all

Sardonicat

ixoy wrote: »

Huh? How is the app an excuse for easing restrictions and when was that ever claimed?
It's an additional armament for contact tracing and a much better one than people trying to remember everyone they were in contact with. It's an "in addition to" not an "instead of".

The person I responded to stated the app was in response to getting back to normal and being in contact with more people.

And as I also stated, it was reported on RTE news last night that people who have been identified as being in contact with an infected person through existing contact tracing measures are not presenting themselves for testing. How do you propose an app will change that? It won't. It won't do a damn thing execpt make people even more complacent.

plodder

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I was watching the briefing this morning and what I got from it was, the app will (via Bluetooth) sync with anyone you're within 2 metres of for 10-15 mins. But no one knows or is notified of thatyet.

If you're unfortunate to test positive for covid, the nurse or doctor or whatever will ask whether you have the app and whether they can upload the info.

So the info is put in and then it's sent to somewhere in Galway and they'll review your data and see whatever devices you were within 2 metres of for 10-15 mins. It will send that device through the app a notification telling them this and if you have registered your phone number they will call you and let you know, if not it will give you a number to call.

Just on the last para there. I don't think there is any 'reviewing' of the uploaded data, because it all represents contacts who need to be informed. But, the HSE does not inform them. It's up to the app on these people's phone to download the new contact list, and the app on their own phone informs the user. The HSE don't see who is being notified. All they see is that everyone's phone is downloading all the contact lists every day. That all works without registering your phone number.

If you have registered your phone number then you will also get a call and at that point you are effectively informing the HSE that you were in contact with an infected person. But, that last step is not required for contact tracing.

Sardonicat

murpho999 wrote: »

So you don't think people who have been in contact with a carrier that receive that information and then self isolate will not help the spread?

You think it will help identify clusters and flare ups?

WHO have said that good data is a essential to help scientists stop the spread of the virus and this app will definitely provide good data.

If people are ignoring being informed by current contact tracing why would they pay attention to an app?

I agree that good data is essential. We already have good data. There's no need to fix it.

listermint

Sardonicat wrote: »

If people are ignoring being informed by current contact tracing why would they pay attention to an app?

I agree that good data is essential. We already have good data. There's no need to fix it.

We dont, you are also wrong on this point.

Bridge93

Sardonicat wrote: »

If people are ignoring being informed by current contact tracing why would they pay attention to an app?

I agree that good data is essential. We already have good data. There's no need to fix it.

They’re not fixing it, this is adding to what’s already being collected. The more info the better

average_runner

peterofthebr wrote: »

i installed it this morning. wary of data tracking being misused. but i can always uninstall it if there is abuses
... recall story of a woman on a bus in Wuhan (soon after they opened up again) while on phone got another call, but didnt answer it. person sitting to the woman (who didnt know her) then got a call asking him to tell the passenger to answer her phone...as it was relating to being in area with spike in covid cases!- china are using some very impressive AI tech for tracking, but completely gives people no privacy..

Better leave all social media so including here

seamus

I imagine the purpose of putting your phone number in is so that when the HSE call you they can count you as a "notified contact" for that particular case. The app itself popping up on your phone can't be counted as a proper notification because you could have suppressed them, you might dismiss it by accident, your child/dog/cat might get to the phone before you do, etc.

Sardonicat

Bridge93 wrote: »

They’re not fixing it, this is adding to what’s already being collected. The more info the better

It's useless if a sizeable proportion ignore being alerted to exposure, which is already happening.

ixoy

Sardonicat wrote: »

And as I also stated, it was reported on RTE news last night that people who have been identified as being in contact with an infected person through existing contact tracing measures are not presenting themselves for testing. How do you propose an app will change that? It won't. It won't do a damn thing execpt make people even more complacent.

That's a completely separate problem though if people aren't reporting for testing.

Look at it this way - let's say 25% of people don't get tested despite being seen as a contact, so 75% of people do. Now 75% of (people using the app) + (traditional contact techniques) cannot be less than (traditional contact techniques). So either way, you're in a better position to help identify people.

Hannibal_Smith

plodder wrote: »

Just on the last para there. I don't think there is any 'reviewing' of the uploaded data, because it all represents contacts who need to be informed. But, the HSE does not inform them. It's up to the app on these people's phone to download the new contact list, and the app on their own phone informs the user. The HSE don't see who is being notified. All they see is that everyone's phone is downloading all the contact lists every day. That all works without registering your phone number.

If you have registered your phone number then you will also get a call and at that point you are effectively informing the HSE that you were in contact with an infected person. But, that last step is not required for contact tracing.

Perhaps review is the wrong word, I'm not technical so I'm not sure what word to use. But the information goes to somewhere in Galway where the data is *insert proper word* (collated or something). And a notification is sent to other devices with the app that you've been within 2m of for more than 10-15 mins.

murpho999

Sardonicat wrote: »

If people are ignoring being informed by current contact tracing why would they pay attention to an app?

I agree that good data is essential. We already have good data. There's no need to fix it.

How do you know if they have good data? Why isn't this extra data beneficial..

How do you know that people are ignoring current contract tracing?

Just because you think that people are not doing the right thing (anything to back that up?) does not mean that we should stop with initiatives to help combat the virus.