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Will you download the contact tracing app?

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    #842
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    mickdw wrote: »
    Is there a requirement to have proof of a positive test before you can hit the button on the app?
    If not, its a joke as you will get messers hitting the button and terrorising people who will receive contact messages.

    Yes


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    #843
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Please bare with me, I'm exceptionally ignorant on these matters.

    How do the HSE get that information without tracking my device? Where I've been, who I've been in contact with? The information has to be identifiable at some stage along the line in order for a notification to be received, surely?

    So your device will have a unique identifiable number and if you're around someone else who also has the app for 15 minutes or longer, your phone will store that person's identifier, as well as their phone storing yours (Bluetooth needs to be on for this to happen). At this point, only both phones have this data contained.

    So, if that person you were in contact with notes themselves on their app as potentially having Covid-19, they can choose to send the unique identifier of anyone (including you) that they have been in contact with to the HSE.

    Now that the HSE has this data, they can send an alert to each close contact using the identifier sent to them by the potential Covid-19 case.


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    #844
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Please bare with me, I'm exceptionally ignorant on these matters.

    How do the HSE get that information without tracking my device? Where I've been, who I've been in contact with? The information has to be identifiable at some stage along the line in order for a notification to be received, surely?

    Why don't you read the app page that answers all of these questions?
    Every 2 hours the app downloads a list of anonymous IDs. These have been shared with the HSE by other people using the app who have tested positive for coronavirus.

    https://covidtracker.gov.ie/how-the-app-works


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    #845
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Please bare with me, I'm exceptionally ignorant on these matters.

    How do the HSE get that information without tracking my device? Where I've been, who I've been in contact with? The information has to be identifiable at some stage along the line in order for a notification to be received, surely?


    You keep an encrypted anonymised list of who you have been in contact with. The HSE publish an equalilent lsit of who has been infected. Your phone checkes your list for matches on the HSE list and lets you know if it finds one.



    If you enter your phone number it sends your number to the HSE if it finds a match.


    If you use the check in feature to state if you have symptoms or not that is collected by the HSE anonymously and paired with your age range, location and gender.


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    #846
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    mickdw wrote: »
    Is there a requirement to have proof of a positive test before you can hit the button on the app?
    If not, its a joke as you will get messers hitting the button and terrorising people who will receive contact messages.

    Do you really think the app developers never thought of that?


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    #847
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    GooglePlus wrote: »
    So your device will have a unique identifiable number and if you're around someone else who also has the app for 15 minutes or longer, your phone will store that person's identifier, as well as their phone storing yours (Bluetooth needs to be on for this to happen). At this point, only both phones have this data contained.

    So, if that person you were in contact with notes themselves on their app as potentially having Covid-19, they can choose to send the unique identifier of anyone (including you) that they have been in contact with to the HSE.

    Now that the HSE has this data, they can send an alert to each close contact using the identifier sent to them by the potential Covid-19 case.


    This is not the case. You can only chose to send your own ID if you are infected. You can not and do not send the id of anyone else to the HSE.


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    #848
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,387 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Why don't you read the app page that answers all of these questions?



    https://covidtracker.gov.ie/how-the-app-works

    It doesn't answer them in a way I can understand.


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    #849
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Do you really think the app developers never thought of that?

    Ok so how does it work.
    Do you get a result from hse with a reference that you need to enter before the app with accept a covid positive input?


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    #850
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    GarIT wrote: »
    This is not the case. You can only chose to send your own ID if you are infected. You can not and do not send the id of anyone else to the HSE.

    Ah that makes more sense.


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    #851
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    Anything connected with the hse is bound to be a fiasco.

    And, no, I won't be downloading it. A waste of time and effort.


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    #852
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    It doesn't answer them in a way I can understand.

    I think that page explains it quite well and uses plain English.


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    #853
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    mickdw wrote: »
    Ok so how does it work.
    Do you get a result from hse with a reference that you need to enter before the app with accept a covid positive input?

    Yes, if you test positive then you'll be supplied a code that you input into the app and this will be uploaded to the HSE and then any people you have been in contact with will be notified.

    They will not be given any of your details or locations. Just informed that that they have been in contact with a person who has tested positive.


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    #854
    tjhook
    Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭tjhook


    I was expecting the worst when I heard the HSE was going to release an app. I'm quite privacy conscious, and this state (along with many others) loves gathering information about its citizens.

    But having looked into it, I think they've done it right - adopted an existing application that already takes a decent approach to privacy.

    I wasn't enthusiastic before, but I've installed this app. From what I can see, there's little if any loss of privacy, easily outweighed by the benefit of finding out early if I'm bringing a potential infection to my family.


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    #855
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,387 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    GarIT wrote: »
    You keep an encrypted anonymised list of who you have been in contact with. The HSE publish an equalilent lsit of who has been infected. Your phone checkes your list for matches on the HSE list and lets you know if it finds one.



    If you enter your phone number it sends your number to the HSE if it finds a match.


    If you use the check in feature to state if you have symptoms or not that is collected by the HSE anonymously and paired with your age range, location and gender.

    And if I don't use the check in feature those things can't be identified?


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    #856
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Please bare with me, I'm exceptionally ignorant on these matters.

    How do the HSE get that information without tracking my device? Where I've been, who I've been in contact with? The information has to be identifiable at some stage along the line in order for a notification to be received, surely?

    It’s remarkably simple really. Imagine each phones app as a raffle book. Every phone it connects to on Bluetooth it gives a ticket to, but only a ticket, no location info, phone number, anything. When someone tests positive the send they counterfoils to the HSE server. And the server then calls out the numbers to all the connected phones. If there is a match, that phone gets a notification.


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    #857
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    Anything connected with the hse is bound to be a fiasco.

    And, no, I won't be downloading it. A waste of time and effort.

    Well done, good positive attitude that is clearly thought out and come to a completely logical solution.
    The other 750k people who've downloaded the app so far are all idiots and will soon have their phones exploding as they receive full data of everyone's personal details, medical records and daily movements.


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    #858
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,357 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Yes, if you test positive then you'll be supplied a code that you input into the app and this will be uploaded to the HSE and then any people you have been in contact with will be notified.

    They will not be given any of your details or locations. Just informed that that they have been in contact with a person who has tested positive.

    So whats the - im not feeling well today feature about?


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    #859
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    Anything connected with the hse is bound to be a fiasco.

    And, no, I won't be downloading it. A waste of time and effort.

    That's the spirit! No wonder we managed to flatten the curve with such civically minded people as yourself.


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    #860
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    And if I don't use the check in feature those things can't be identified?


    Correct.


    Even if you do it is just recoded as a +1 in each category you pick, but if you're not comfortable with it that's fine, it's not the main function and isn't required. You will still be notified if you come into contact with a case.

    If you put in Dublin, Male, 18-40, no symptoms it will record each separately. So Dublin no symptoms +1, male no symptoms +1, 18-40 no symptoms +1. It won't record the existance of an 18-40 year old male form Dublin.


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    #861
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    And if I don't use the check in feature those things can't be identified?

    No, the check in is just saying if you are showing any symptoms or not. It's optional and for statistics only.

    The connecting with other phones as you come into contact with people is done in the background once you have bluetooth enabled.


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    #862
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,959 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I downloaded it and gave my phone number. I presume that is all that is required. Not going to give a health update every day!

    All for one, and one for all. Must be the first thing the HSE did that was an instant success systems wise anyway.

    Maybe now they can arrange a similar system to log everyone engaging with HSE all over the country for any doctor to see. Maybe that's already there.

    But kudos where it is due. That fella Paul Reid is impressive alright. Hope he continues to improve things. Oh and high five to the developers too.


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    #863
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    mickdw wrote: »
    So whats the - im not feeling well today feature about?

    Optional, for statistics and keeps a record for 28 days for you on your phone.

    It can also give you advice on what to do if not feeling well

    As stated already, it's all exlplained here.


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    #864
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    mickdw wrote: »
    So whats the - im not feeling well today feature about?


    No that is unrelated. Statistics gathering and prevention planning, see my other posts.


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    #865
    G_R
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    mickdw wrote: »
    So whats the - im not feeling well today feature about?

    (Annonomised) Statistics. Allows them to plan for potential clusters if a significant number of people in area report not feeling well in a short space of time.


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    #866
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I downloaded it and gave my phone number. I presume that is all that is required. Not going to give a health update every day!

    All for one, and one for all. Must be the first thing the HSE did that was an instant success systems wise anyway.

    Maybe now they can arrange a similar system to log everyone engaging with HSE all over the country for any doctor to see. Maybe that's already there.

    But kudos where it is due. That fella Paul Reid is impressive alright. Hope he continues to improve things. Oh and high five to the developers too.

    Google and Apple developed it, not the HSE


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    #867
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Google and Apple developed it, not the HSE


    The HSE developed it not Google or Apple. Actually a contractor developed with oversight from the HSE.

    Google and Apple designed the underlying technology that detects nearby bluetooth devices and exchanges IDs.


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    #868
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,476 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Google and Apple developed it, not the HSE

    Not true, Apple and Google only involved with the anonymous ids for phones.

    HSE did the rest.

    I know they have a bad rep but they don't get everything wrong and healthcare in Ireland is actually quiet good despite what people say.


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    #869
    PopTarts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭PopTarts


    I keep getting a notification:

    Exposure Notifications Region Changed
    COVID 19 Exposure Notifications may not be supported by “COVID Tracker Ireland” in this region. You should confirm which app you are using in settings.

    Anyone know reasoning? Based Dublin.


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    #870
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users Posts: 11,672 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    PopTarts wrote: »
    I keep getting a notification:

    Exposure Notifications Region Changed
    COVID 19 Exposure Notifications may not be supported by “COVID Tracker Ireland” in this region. You should confirm which app you are using in settings.

    Anyone know reasoning? Based Dublin.
    is your phone set to Ireland?


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    #871
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    PopTarts wrote: »
    I keep getting a notification:

    Exposure Notifications Region Changed
    COVID 19 Exposure Notifications may not be supported by “COVID Tracker Ireland” in this region. You should confirm which app you are using in settings.

    Anyone know reasoning? Based Dublin.

    Your Google account prob set to UK.


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