Will you download the contact tracing app?

drunkmonkey

I'm a little sceptical, the people most in danger are the people most likely not to have a smartphone.
We're at nearly 30% of health care workers have or had it, straight away if you've been in contact with any or their families you should be isolating for a few days, the same applies to people involved in resedintial care.
I think it would be a lot more useful if they started saying where the location of all these clusters are. There a lot of fear and rumours in communities.
Supposedly a meat processing factory near me had 40 confirmed cases yesterday and 26 the day before, I think that town should be on lockdown and named rather than let people come and go as they please the 2km isn't being enforced in the country side, I'll be throwing out the rashers and sausages in my fridge as a precaution, the public need to be informed. Screw Gdpr it's a pandemic.

plodder

Red Alert wrote: »

Given the marketing spin the HSE seem good at along with our technically illiterate journos, do you think we’ll ever see that?

I think marketing spin and technically illiterate journos won't preclude what I want. Not everyone will want to read a detailed description of it anyway.

daheff

There have been apps like this already released in a number of countries across the world. Why aren't HSE just buying this in, tweaking it, and releasing it? No.. they'll develop a new app from scratch.

weldoninhio

No chance.

Danzy

Yes, dislike the close oversight of life today, will delete in time, however it's the right thing to do.

If you're online at all, everything about you is known.

An app like this is as mild as it gets.

lawred2

plodder wrote: »

With software like this, there will always be a certain level of trust required. You can never really be sure what it is doing. So long as they are completely open about what it does and how it works and if I can read a detailed technical description of it, and it (claims to) work anonymously, without using any of my personal data, then I will download and use it.

How will it work anonymously?

Will it require someone be who has contracted covid 19 to inform the app?

bluemachaveli

Red Alert wrote: »

Depends whether it has a centralised or decentralised architecture. If it’s like the one in Germany / Austria then yes, if it’s like the UKs with a central DB then I’d be much more hesitant. Knowing the crap that passes for IT systems in this country I worry it’ll be the latter.

+1 on this, if it's decentralised, I'm all for it. HSE should be leveraging the Apple/Google API. I had a look at the beta yesterday on iOS and the implementation seems fair. The ground work is there, they just need to produce an app that leverages it.

The UK approach could end up being a mess. Time is crucial here and why they think they can produce a better solution that two of the worlds biggest tech companies is beyond me.

plodder

lawred2 wrote: »

How will it work anonymously?

Each phone could be given or generate itself an anonymous identifier and that could be the only piece of data that ever gets shared: your own identifier and those of people you come into contact with.

Will it require someone be who has contracted covid 19 to inform the app?

I presume so, but it would need some way to stop people from falsely claiming that they have it, which is where it starts to get more complicated I guess. Maybe you will have to accept giving up some personal data, if you test positive, though not necessarily to the app itself.

Del Griffith

Absolutely not

minikin

Yes, in a heart beat. Have enabled full time location tracking in google maps since the start of this, just in case need to do contact tracing at some stage. Peoples’ health is more important To me than some ‘privacy’ fears.

_Brian

Yes will download it while there is a need to have it and possibly delete in the future.

Why are the poll results hidden ?

Peregrinus

lawred2 wrote: »

How will it work anonymously?

Will it require someone be who has contracted covid 19 to inform the app?

As far as I know, it works like this:

1. You have to register on the app. You don't necessarily have to use your real name (or, indeed, any name, depending on choices made by the app developers) but you do need to register your actual phone numer.

2. Every few minutes, your phone exchanges a "handshake" with any other phone close by that is also running the app. It does this through bluetooth - location services are not involved.

3. If a serious of handshakes shows that you spent more than 15 minutes near another phone, it makes a note of this, and it stores that for, say, 14 days before deleting it.

4. If you are diagnosed with CV-19, nothing happens until you register this fact through your app. Your phone then uploads your list of contacts to the authorities - presumably, the HSE.

5. They then have a list of phone numbers of people with whom you have spent more than 15 minutes in the past two weeks. An actual human being rings each of those people, explains to them that they have likely been exposed to CV-19, asks about any symptoms they may have and their general health condition, advises them to get tested, tells them how to do this (or arranges a test for them), etc, etc.

6. The people who get contacted may or may not know you - it could be someone who sat near you on a bus, or was in the same waiting room or the same queue as you. Or they could be friends, family members, work colleagues. Either way, they are not told who you are (the authorities know or can find this out, because they have your phone number, but they don't tell your contacts) and they are not told where the contact occurred (the authorities don't know this) or when, except that it was within the past 14 days.

Red Alert

Peregrinus wrote: »

4. If you are diagnosed with CV-19, nothing happens until you register this fact through your app. Your phone then uploads your list of contacts to the authorities - presumably, the HSE.

5. They then have a list of phone numbers of people with whom you have spent more than 15 minutes in the past two weeks. An actual human being rings each of those people, explains to them that they have likely been exposed to CV-19, asks about any symptoms they may have and their general health condition, advises them to get tested, tells them how to do this (or arranges a test for them), etc, etc.

Personally I'd be happy enough to be sent a push message with a link for further info / to register for a test (if necessary). I know some people would rather a real human being, but if it was a selectable option it could cut down manpower demands on contact tracing.

lawred2

Peregrinus wrote: »

As far as I know, it works like this:

1. You have to register on the app. You don't necessarily have to use your real name (or, indeed, any name, depending on choices made by the app developers) but you do need to register your actual phone numer.

2. Every few minutes, your phone exchanges a "handshake" with any other phone close by that is also running the app. It does this through bluetooth - location services are not involved.

3. If a serious of handshakes shows that you spent more than 15 minutes near another phone, it makes a note of this, and it stores that for, say, 14 days before deleting it.

4. If you are diagnosed with CV-19, nothing happens until you register this fact through your app. Your phone then uploads your list of contacts to the authorities - presumably, the HSE.

5. They then have a list of phone numbers of people with whom you have spent more than 15 minutes in the past two weeks. An actual human being rings each of those people, explains to them that they have likely been exposed to CV-19, asks about any symptoms they may have and their general health condition, advises them to get tested, tells them how to do this (or arranges a test for them), etc, etc.

6. The people who get contacted may or may not know you - it could be someone who sat near you on a bus, or was in the same waiting room or the same queue as you. Or they could be friends, family members, work colleagues. Either way, they are not told who you are (the authorities know or can find this out, because they have your phone number, but they don't tell your contacts) and they are not told where the contact occurred (the authorities don't know this) or when, except that it was within the past 14 days.

Thanks.. I probably will use it. I want to get back to work really so I'll do anything that helps the cause.

lawred2

Red Alert wrote: »

Personally I'd be happy enough to be sent a push message with a link for further info / to register for a test (if necessary). I know some people would rather a real human being, but if it was a selectable option it could cut down manpower demands on contact tracing.

I'd agree with this.

Diarmuid

Peregrinus wrote: »

As far as I know, it works like this:

1. You have to register on the app. You don't necessarily have to use your real name (or, indeed, any name, depending on choices made by the app developers) but you do need to register your actual phone numer.

I hope not.

Google and Apple have developed a much more privacy focused technology that the German government have switched to. Here's the dummy's guide.
https://ncase.me/contact-tracing/

Why the HSE would want to badly implement something that is way out of their depth is beyond me

Diarmuid

Here's a more technical discussion of the details of the two approaches.

lawred2

Diarmuid wrote: »

I hope not.

Google and Apple have developed a much more privacy focused technology that the German government have switched to. Here's the dummy's guide.
https://ncase.me/contact-tracing/

Why the HSE would want to badly implement something that is way out of their depth is beyond me

That link doesn't work for me

Peregrinus

Red Alert wrote: »

Personally I'd be happy enough to be sent a push message with a link for further info / to register for a test (if necessary). I know some people would rather a real human being, but if it was a selectable option it could cut down manpower demands on contact tracing.

It turns out that cutting down on manpower in contract tracing activities also cuts down on the effectiveness of those activities. People respond in much greater numbers to an actual phone call from an actual human being than they do to a push notification on their phones.

Plus, the phone call is interactive - they ask you about your general medical circumstances, where you live and work, your home circumstances, whether you have any symptoms already, etc, and this feeds into resource allocation decisions, early identification of incipient clusters, etc. While you can ask people this through a series of push notifications that demand responses, compliance is much lower than in a phone conversation.

Duke of Url

Yes

sheepsh4gger

MrMusician18 wrote: »

So when it comes, will you download it?

Over my dead body.

Diarmuid

lawred2 wrote: »

That link doesn't work for me

Which link? I've verified both again now and they work

Rowley Birkin QC

Yes, 100%.

Health preservation > data protection all day long.

ixoy

How does standard contact tracing work? Is it reliant on the suspected case remembering both everyone they met and having their contact details? That seems very flakey if so, whereas an app would provide more accuracy.

hmmm

Absolutely. A small contribution to the overall effort to try and control this.

People who don't have the app shouldn't be allowed into restaurants or retail outlets, or anywhere where they are mixing with people.

GazzaL

hmmm wrote: »

Absolutely. A small contribution to the overall effort to try and control this.

People who don't have the app shouldn't be allowed into restaurants or retail outlets, or anywhere where they are mixing with people.

So you wouldn't let an elderly person who can't use a smartphone into a shop? ****in hell.

Lurching

I reckon many of the people complaining about job losses and the "government inaction" are the same people who would say no to this.
With some people, there is just no helping them.

I'm all on for an app like this. Even if it did know where I was, who cares?! It's not like I'm up to nefarious activities for world domination or anything.

world class wreckin’ cru

nO My pRiVacY ThOugH!! Morons.

Yes I will. important in helping us get through a worldwide pandemic when restrictions start to be lifted.

Danzy

Lurching wrote: »

I reckon many of the people complaining about job losses and the "government inaction" are the same people who would say no to this.
With some people, there is just no helping them.

I'm all on for an app like this. Even if it did know where I was, who cares?! It's not like I'm up to nefarious activities for world domination or anything.

Many people think being a cynic, projects a no nonsense, fierce practical approach.

Covers up the chronic, paralyzing fear they feel.

Breakthrough bonus moment: That can be me at times in life.

lawred2

Diarmuid wrote: »

Which link? I've verified both again now and they work

ncase.me

Actually it could be being blocked by SafeDNS