Will you download the contact tracing app?

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How many of those against the app are currently sporting an Orwellian timepiece, I wonder.

hmmm

If the Guards/Military/Illuminati want to know your movements, they'll just ask your phone company.

They won't be going to the hassle of embedding some sophisticated spyware inside an open-source app from the HSE.

It's just an excuse for some people to be different - if you told them they couldn't use the app they'd be using it.

CBear1993

If you did happen to go on holidays this summer will they know you’ve been away if you have the app on your phone without declaring it?

At this stage it’s fairly obvious that filling out the forms at the airport hasn’t worked and is followed up in a very vague way

Bigmac1euro

They should refuse entry to every business in the country if you haven’t got this app installed.
Same for airports.

Harpon

brianomc wrote: »

It is to be used in addition to regular contact tracing, which has its own limitations. But lets say I'm sitting in a bar near someone for an hour, I don't know them, they don't know me, so we don't have each others names/numbers for the previous method. But then I get covid, this app can help alert the other person that they have been near someone who has been diagnosed and should get themselves tested.

Yeah and as I’ve said by the time you get symptoms, get tested, get results and update the app the other person has already infected all their family and close contacts. Maybe instead of infecting 10 people you only infect 8 because of the app, it’s a slight improvement but not going to stop the spread of covid any significant way. The virus doesn’t care what app you have on your phone. The only way to stop the spread of this thing is to make mask wearing mandatory in public places.

GarIT

CBear1993 wrote: »

If you did happen to go on holidays this summer will they know you’ve been away if you have the app on your phone without declaring it?

At this stage it’s fairly obvious that filling out the forms at the airport hasn’t worked and is followed up in a very vague way

No, the app does not record your location.

sydthebeat

CBear1993 wrote: »

If you did happen to go on holidays this summer will they know you’ve been away if you have the app on your phone without declaring it?

At this stage it’s fairly obvious that filling out the forms at the airport hasn’t worked and is followed up in a very vague way

"they" do not know who's phones the app is on.

Read the last 5 or 6 pages. The privacy is explained over and over

GarIT

Harpon wrote: »

Yeah and as I’ve said by the time you get symptoms, get tested, get results and update the app the other person has already infected all their family and close contacts. Maybe instead of infecting 10 people you only infect 8 because of the app, it’s a slight improvement but not going to stop the spread of covid any significant way. The virus doesn’t care what app you have on your phone. The only way to stop the spread of this thing is to make mask wearing mandatory in public places.

Or many you get to them before they infect anyone. There's no point in making up numbers.

CBear1993

Some Asians wear masks all year round and on planes and they’re still the originators of most of the modern day virus’ in the past 20 years.

Wearing a mask doesn’t make the unhygienic any cleaner. They’ll still cough and splutter all around the place with no regard for anyone else

CBear1993

sydthebeat wrote: »

"they" do not know who's phones the app is on.

Read the last 5 or 6 pages. The privacy is explained over and over

I used to read through threads syd but people just weigh in with their question or two cents nowadays anyway without seeing if it was covered beforehand. The layout of this site isn’t very user friendly on mobile or desktop.

ongarite

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

They should refuse entry to every business in the country if you haven’t got this app installed.
Same for airports.

In certain countries in the Middle East that is the case.
No entry to supermarket, restaurant or mall without showing app as installed and functioning.

sydthebeat

CBear1993 wrote: »

Some Asians wear masks all year round and on planes and they’re still the originators of most of the modern day virus’ in the past 20 years.

Wearing a mask doesn’t make the unhygienic any cleaner. They’ll still cough and splutter all around the place with no regard for anyone else

Most Asians wear masks because of the air quality of their cities, not because they are afraid of catching bugs. The type of mask that's most prevalent doesn't stop inhaled viruses either

Harpon

GarIT wrote: »

Or many you get to them before they infect anyone. There's no point in making up numbers.

Yeah if they live alone and don’t go outside for a few days after the encounter with the infected person.

brianomc

Harpon wrote: »

Yeah and as I’ve said by the time you get symptoms, get tested, get results and update the app the other person has already infected all their family and close contacts. Maybe instead of infecting 10 people you only infect 8 because of the app, it’s a slight improvement but not going to stop the spread of covid any significant way. The virus doesn’t care what app you have on your phone. The only way to stop the spread of this thing is to make mask wearing mandatory in public places.

How many people who are asymptomatic would be walking around infecting others if we hadn't brought in the manual contact tracing? Surely it's better to have this as an aid.

It's going to take more than just wearing masks, hand washing is pretty important too. And I know you don't mean that the ONLY thing that will stop it is masks, I'm not being a dick. But everything plays its part, and this is another string in the bow. One that once installed doesn't need to be thought of, unlike washing hands, wearing masks, keeping 2m, coughing into elbows etc.

GarIT

Harpon wrote: »

Yeah if they live alone and don’t go outside for a few days after the encounter with the infected person.

You don't necessarily immediately become infectious. The person who gave it to you isn't necessarily a few days away from a test. You're relying on two or three unlikely assumptions to make your claims, straining to see the worst possible scenario and ignoring all the good it could do.

Even in your example, if we imagine they did infect 10 people at least those 10 people can be informed immediately. Only the very first person has to wait to develop symptoms, everyone else can be tested once contact is discovered. Within a few jumps on the chain we would have outpaced the virus.

1123heavy

CBear1993 wrote: »

If you did happen to go on holidays this summer will they know you’ve been away if you have the app on your phone without declaring it?

At this stage it’s fairly obvious that filling out the forms at the airport hasn’t worked and is followed up in a very vague way

They will know yes, it baffles me how people see this app is a good idea. Wait now in 2 months lots of the people lauding this app now will be starting threads complaining about how they were asked to hand back COVID payments or the like because they flew to Manchester to see their sick granny etc.

This stuff is already happening and people think this app which will be sharing your phone's location with a government agency is a good idea? It well and truly beggars belief.

All comments that this app does not know your location are null and void, if anyone here runs a blog they will know that you can open a map and it tells you exactly the locations around the globe at which people have read your blog. That is the level of location tracking that takes place when you interact with the internet, anyone believing otherwise seriously needs to wake up. This is not a conspiracy, it is common sense about how the phones are working.

There also exists vast potential for false alerts with this app. Let's say I'm sitting in a cafeteria and next door to me right on the other side of the wall (in another cafeteria) there is a person who goes on to have COVID. Is it reasonable that in 2 weeks time I receive an alert and must self isolate despite having 0 real contact with that person?

There is far too much jumping the gun going on.

Van.Bosch

1123heavy wrote: »

They will know yes, it baffles me how people see this app is a good idea. Wait now in 2 months lots of the people lauding this app now will be starting threads complaining about how they were asked to hand back COVID payments or the like because they flew to Manchester to see their sick granny etc.

This stuff is already happening and people think this app which will be sharing your phone's location with a government agency is a good idea? It well and truly beggars belief.

All comments that this app does not know your location are null and void, if anyone here runs a blog they will know that you can open a map and it tells you exactly the locations around the globe at which people have read your blog. That is the level of location tracking that takes place when you interact with the internet, anyone believing otherwise seriously needs to wake up. This is not a conspiracy, it is common sense about how the phones are working.

There also exists vast potential for false alerts with this app. Let's say I'm sitting in a cafeteria and next door to me right on the other side of the wall (in another cafeteria) there is a person who goes on to have COVID. Is it reasonable that in 2 weeks time I receive an alert and must self isolate despite having 0 real contact with that person?

There is far too much jumping the gun going on.

The phone doesn’t share your location with the government.

GarIT

1123heavy wrote: »

They will know yes, it baffles me how people see this app is a good idea. Wait now in 2 months lots of the people lauding this app now will be starting threads complaining about how they were asked to hand back COVID payments or the like because they flew to Manchester to see their sick granny etc.

This stuff is already happening and people think this app which will be sharing your phone's location with a government agency is a good idea? It well and truly beggars belief.

All comments that this app does not know your location are null and void, if anyone here runs a blog they will know that you can open a map and it tells you exactly the locations around the globe at which people have read your blog. That is the level of location tracking that takes place when you interact with the internet, anyone believing otherwise seriously needs to wake up. This is not a conspiracy, it is common sense about how the phones are working.

There also exists vast potential for false alerts with this app. Let's say I'm sitting in a cafeteria and next door to me right on the other side of the wall (in another cafeteria) there is a person who goes on to have COVID. Is it reasonable that in 2 weeks time I receive an alert and must self isolate despite having 0 real contact with that person?

There is far too much jumping the gun going on.

Can you show me the line of code where it checks your location, or sends any info to the HSE? All the code is public. I've checked and I can't find it. Yes of course it is possible that they could do it, many apps do, it is not the case that this app does.

Walls reduce the signal strength by 50%. You would practically both need to be holding your phone up to the wall.

Boards.ie collects more information on you than this app.

brianomc

1123heavy wrote: »

They will know yes, it baffles me how people see this app is a good idea. Wait now in 2 months lots of the people lauding this app now will be starting threads complaining about how they were asked to hand back COVID payments or the like because they flew to Manchester to see their sick granny etc.

This stuff is already happening and people think this app which will be sharing your phone's location with a government agency is a good idea? It well and truly beggars belief.

People have had their payments stopped because they left the country and there was someone from Revenue/DEASP at the airport collecting names. Not because an app which doesnt track your location told them so.

1123heavy

GarIT wrote: »

When you scan your boarding pass at the scanner in the airport it sends the details to Revenue. Those turnstiles are owned by Revenue. Revenue is the department of tax and customs. They don't even need to collect names

The underlined bit is absolutely false

1123heavy

GarIT wrote: »

Do you seriously think you can pass through customs without customs recording you have passed through customs? How could the barrier even let you through if it didn't have a list of valid boarding passes?

On leaving Ireland you do not go through customs unless you have attracted attention to yourself or you are travelling to the USA and you go through US customs.

The first boarding pass scanner is at the security entrance and that is to verify that only passengers travelling are getting airside.

The second boarding pass scanner is at the boarding gate and that is to make sure you are boarding the correct aircraft.

Even if Revenue wanted to gain access to the boarding data systems to see who was tracked as travelling the DAA would not oblige without a court injunction.

You go through immigration on arrival into Ireland and if you have come from Europe they don't even scan your passport as a rule, it's done on occasion and at random.

Customs are the folk past the baggage belts where you choose to go through the blue, green or red zones into the arrivals hall. Unless you look like you're carrying some dodgy tree leaves from Bali they don't care about you.

So no, they have no way of knowing who is travelling unless you are travelling at a time at which spot checks by revenue are being conducted (or you have this so called genius app on your phone which is sharing your location to a government agency).

brianomc

This night has taken a strange turn. I’m agreeing with 1123Heavy and disagreeing with GarIT 😀

I know four people who had their payments stopped. All were spoken to at the airport in the same manner as in the link
https://extra.ie/2020/05/08/news/irish-news/e1million-covid-payment-scam

pjohnson

Well if it helps catch out welfare scummers then thats another plus.

Unless you plan on scumming the payment thats a problem how?

brianomc

1123heavy wrote: »

So no, they have no way of knowing who is travelling unless you are travelling at a time at which spot checks by revenue are being conducted (or you have this so called genius app on your phone which is sharing your location to a government agency).

Agree with the first point. Still disagreeing on the second as the app does not track or share your location with anyone

1123heavy

GarIT wrote: »

So you are saying data protection will stop customs from seeing who is departing from an airport but won't stop the HSE from lying about the info they collect and sneekily tracking your location?

The HSE is in its entirety a branch of the government of Ireland and they will hold our information here.

The DAA on the other hand is a commercial company and only semi state so a very different animal.

In reference to what you've added to your post - the people doing the swabs and running the metal detectors are employees of the DAA and have got absolutely nothing to do with revenue nor customs (though i'm sure they'd call on whoever they felt necessary should the need arise.)

On arrival you were always liable to find anyone checking whatever, on departure however you've got to have some nasty luck to ever see revenue. 3 years working in the airport and never seen them once at departure security.

jimmycrackcorm

1123heavy wrote: »

They will know yes, it baffles me how people see this app is a good idea. Wait now in 2 months lots of the people lauding this app now will be starting threads complaining about how they were asked to hand back COVID payments or the like because they flew to Manchester to see their sick granny etc.

This stuff is already happening and people think this app which will be sharing your phone's location with a government agency is a good idea? It well and truly beggars belief.

All comments that this app does not know your location are null and void, if anyone here runs a blog they will know that you can open a map and it tells you exactly the locations around the globe at which people have read your blog. That is the level of location tracking that takes place when you interact with the internet, anyone believing otherwise seriously needs to wake up. This is not a conspiracy, it is common sense about how the phones are working.

There also exists vast potential for false alerts with this app. Let's say I'm sitting in a cafeteria and next door to me right on the other side of the wall (in another cafeteria) there is a person who goes on to have COVID. Is it reasonable that in 2 weeks time I receive an alert and must self isolate despite having 0 real contact with that person?

There is far too much jumping the gun going on.

You have zero awareness of technology and are making stuff up given the fact that the source code is publicly available and verifiable.
Also, about the relevance of you in your cafeteria example; it's not about picking out you specifically. This example from south Korea shows the benefit of this automated tracing:

The weekend before last, a 29-year-old South Korean man visited five nightclubs in Seoul, where he partied with around 7,200 other people. Five days later — on the same day South Korea relaxed social distancing measures — he tested positive for Covid-19, becoming the country’s first local infection in four days.

According to South Korean health officials, nearly 80 new Covid-19 cases have been linked to the man’s outing in the Itaewon neighborhood. And on Monday, officials announced 35 new confirmed infections — the highest total in about a month — of which 29 may have originated from those five nightclubs.

spookwoman

If you are getting welfare you are supposed to notify them if you are leaving the state on holiday. To be honest not the best idea to leave the country even for a funeral when there is usually a 14 day self isolation when you get there so you should not even be attending the funeral. If going to the uk and you get caught you could be looking at at £1,000 fine. Then you have another 14 days to self isolate when you get back here.

darragh o meara

Harpon wrote: »

I had a delivery driver go past me in my estate the other day with the covid cough, I shudder to think how many people that fcuker will infect.

How do you know he has Covid? I have a really bad cough with well over a year and I dont have it.. There are plenty of conditions that can cause a bad cough that are not Covid related. That said, its not a great time to have a cough

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You have zero awareness of technology and are making stuff up given the fact that the source code is publicly available and verifiable.
Also, about the relevance of you in your cafeteria example; it's not about picking out you specifically. This example from south Korea shows the benefit of this automated tracing:

The weekend before last, a 29-year-old South Korean man visited five nightclubs in Seoul, where he partied with around 7,200 other people. Five days later — on the same day South Korea relaxed social distancing measures — he tested positive for Covid-19, becoming the country’s first local infection in four days.

According to South Korean health officials, nearly 80 new Covid-19 cases have been linked to the man’s outing in the Itaewon neighborhood. And on Monday, officials announced 35 new confirmed infections — the highest total in about a month — of which 29 may have originated from those five nightclubs.

Don’t you know 123heavy has common sense, and everyone knows that trumps actual knowledge

stephenjmcd

spookwoman wrote: »

If you are getting welfare you are supposed to notify them if you are leaving the state on holiday. To be honest not the best idea to leave the country even for a funeral when there is usually a 14 day self isolation when you get there so you should not even be attending the funeral. If going to the uk and you get caught you could be looking at at £1,000 fine. Then you have another 14 days to self isolate when you get back here.

The UK self isolation requirement is lifted from 10th July and Irish people never had to do it anyway