Will you download the contact tracing app?

plodder

Diarmuid wrote: »

I hope not.

Google and Apple have developed a much more privacy focused technology that the German government have switched to. Here's the dummy's guide.
https://ncase.me/contact-tracing/

Why the HSE would want to badly implement something that is way out of their depth is beyond me

That does look like a stronger approach from a privacy perspective.

What about this business of needing google and Apple's buyin for apps that run in the background? Does that not require people to use their platforms?

Peregrinus

ixoy wrote: »

How does standard contact tracing work? Is it reliant on the suspected case remembering both everyone they met and having their contact details? That seems very flakey if so, whereas an app would provide more accuracy.

The app doesn't replace standard contact tracing; it only supplements it. Standard contact tracing asks you who you've been in contact with, and it is pretty good at identifying your family, work colleagues, friends, etc, and of course you have contact details for them, and of course you will probably be contacting them anyway to let them know the situation, because you care about them.

The app helps to disclose contacts that you don't know about (the person behind you in the queue that you never even noticed) and it helps to identify people that you know about but can't identify (that guy you see on the bus most mornings, but you don't know who he is). But of course it only does this if those people were themselves using the app, so at best it's going to have a partial success rate.

Diarmuid

plodder wrote: »

What about this business of needing google and Apple's buyin for apps that run in the background? Does that not require people to use their platforms?

This is the approach Apple and Google are supporting (DP-3T) and Apple has explicitly said they would not support the European (PEPP-PT) approach

faceman

I would consider it depending on what is in the finer detail. Google and the Irish government don’t exactly have a glowing track record with this stuff

hmmm

bluemachaveli wrote: »

+1 on this, if it's decentralised, I'm all for it. HSE should be leveraging the Apple/Google API.

The HSE started developing this app before Apple & Google announced their API. Instead of criticising them for not using the newer API, I think we should be congratulating them for moving fast & pushing them to move to the newer API in a v2 of the App.

Right now speed is more important - get it out.

Diarmuid

Nervous Laugh wrote: »

nO My pRiVacY ThOugH!! Morons.

Yes I will. important in helping us get through a worldwide pandemic when restrictions start to be lifted.

It's depressing that you say that when the end result of such an attitude is so clear

ixoy

Of course I would. If I'm okay with Google giving me a timeline of where I was each month then I should be bloody well okay with something that's actually potentially very useful.

Peregrinus wrote: »

The app doesn't replace standard contact tracing; it only supplements it. Standard contact tracing asks you who you've been in contact with, and it is pretty good at identifying your family, work colleagues, friends, etc, and of course you have contact details for them, and of course you will probably be contacting them anyway to let them know the situation, because you care about them.

I suppose I'm wondering that if someone is sick, they mightn't be in a position to recall who they've met. I know it's not infallible and I'd certainly like to think that if I end up in this position I do the job myself.

Do they contact any shops you might have visited or would that be too much as supermarkets for one would be constantly rung up. That's the sort of situation where an app might be handy.

GazzaL

Nervous Laugh wrote: »

nO My pRiVacY ThOugH!! Morons.

Yes I will. important in helping us get through a worldwide pandemic when restrictions start to be lifted.

We're a world leader in data protection, it's worth a huge amount to our economy. We could do without a major balls up that would damage our reputation internationally. The HSE don't have the best track record either when it comes to this sort of thing.

Diarmuid

hmmm wrote: »

The HSE started developing this app before Apple & Google announced their API. Instead of criticising them for not using the newer API, I think we should be congratulating them for moving fast & pushing them to move to the newer API in a v2 of the App..

We all know that that's never going to happen.

AhHaor

I will not, I fully understand the devastation this virus has caused (we're planning a funeral), however, I've no trust in the government and their data collection policy, the PSC and their treatment of data protection commissioner was a disgrace. And with the USC being a temporary levy, I've no trust that anything that is introduced now will be a temporary measure.

hmmm

Diarmuid wrote: »

We all know that that's never going to happen.

Thanks for that useful contribution.

The virus might be with us for 18 months/2 years. I've no doubt the app will be updated.

forumdedum

yes

Real Life

I understand peoples hesitation and Id be hesitant myself until I know more about how it will work exactly but I kind of feel like the privacy fears most people have about it are not the big problem, I think that ship has already sailed, if you have a mobile phone youre already being tracked and monitored a lot and this will probably only add whether you have Covid 19 or been near someone who does.

Just my thoughts and Im really no expert in any of these things so I dont know for sure.

blackbox

Why are the poll results hidden?

Sorry I voted now...

Diarmuid

hmmm wrote: »

Thanks for that useful contribution.

The virus might be with us for 18 months/2 years. I've no doubt the app will be updated.

You really think a conservative government department is going to en mass run two parallel contract tracing systems? The app might be updated but who's the say all users will take the update, so straight away you need to support both.

hmmm

GazzaL wrote: »

So you wouldn't let an elderly person who can't use a smartphone into a shop? ****in hell.

An elderly person sure.

A younger person carrying a phone - no.

This is going to be like the anti-vaccers. All full of self-importance, and not willing to make a small sacrifice as part of the overall good and helping to make it easier for us to relax restrictions.

As long as they don't use the same team that developed the RTE Player app. Then you need have no fear of privacy as it would play 3 ads for Fair City and then crash each time you turned on your phone, wiping all data and apps from your phone in the process.

plodder

Diarmuid wrote: »

This is the approach Apple and Google are supporting (DP-3T) and Apple has explicitly said they would not support the European (PEPP-PT) approach

And what does "not support" mean? Will those apps run on ios?

hmmm

Diarmuid wrote: »

You really think a conservative government department is going to en mass run two parallel contract tracing systems? The app might be updated but who's the say all users will take the update, so straight away you need to support both.

We're in the middle of a pandemic, we're trying to find ways to identify contacts and get the economy open, speed is important. If they have an app ready to go, and if it means we can open up 2 weeks earlier, I would get it out with what they have.

sheepsh4gger

Diarmuid wrote: »

It's depressing that you say that when the end result of such an attitude is so clear

It's funny how sheeple will give away their rights.
This will end up in a totalitarian gulag archipelago.

Montage of Feck

Why are the poll results hidden?

plodder

hmmm wrote: »

We're in the middle of a pandemic, we're trying to find ways to identify contacts and get the economy open, speed is important. If they have an app ready to go, and if it means we can open up 2 weeks earlier, I would get it out with what they have.

Rushing head first into it is not the answer either. Apps are not a panacea that will suddenly solve the problem.

drunkmonkey

Upload your contacts to the authorities, they can feck right off. Tell us where the cases are and stop messing or do a Russia on it and pull the location data from the mobile networks of confirmed cases and release a detailed map of them.
I really think the app is a non runner, it requires too much user effort from what I've read above. You won't get the 100% buy in required for it to be a reliable method of contact tracing.

lainey_d_123

If it meant being able to resume 'normal' life, yes.

I have friends in South Korea and it's absolutely mental how much better they have handled it over there. This whole thing is a minor disruption for them, compared to total chaos here. They're free to go out, the bars are open, restaurants are open, life has pretty much gone on as normal. It's how it was here in the few weeks before lockdown, I imagine. People feeling on edge and being cautious, but life still going on as normal.

bush

Deleted User wrote: »

As long as they don't use the same team that developed the RTE Player app. Then you need have no fear of privacy as it would play 3 ads for Fair City and then crash each time you turned on your phone, wiping all data and apps from your phone in the process.

This is what I would be worried about. In my experience Irish apps have been awful. It probably wouldn't be working half the time. I would definetly use it though.

prunudo

Depends how a positive case is uploaded to the app. If its up to the app user then its open to people acting the maggot, are there plenty of gob****es in this country who would think that is a hilarious thing to do.

AndyTheDude

Apps like this are completely useless.

I work in a pharma plant, mobile phones are not allowed onsite. Everybody leaves them in their cars or at the security booth. So, I might have a contact with an infected person at work and the app wouldn't log it on. What's the point then?

An implanted chip would be so much better...

bush

prunudo wrote: »

Depends how a positive case is uploaded to the app. If its up to the app user then its open to people acting the maggot, are there plenty of gob****es in this country who would think that is a hilarious thing to do.

You need to enter a code from a doctor when you diagnosed.

bloodless_coup

Anyone who downloads this app is an idiot, simply put.

plodder

AndyTheDude wrote: »

Apps like this are completely useless.

I work in a pharma plant, mobile phones are not allowed onsite. Everybody leaves them in their cars or at the security booth. So, I might have a contact with an infected person at work and the app wouldn't log it on. What's the point then?

An implanted chip would be so much better...

They aren't a panacea but they are not completely useless. They are designed for situations the opposite to what you describe above. In your workplace, people are easily contacted. Out and about on the street and in shops is where the apps might be useful because people are impossible to contact any other way.