Tenant refusing to pay

Paulownia

dubrov wrote: »

They still owe the money and you can take them to court to retrieve it.
The problem is that they may have no assets and you can't get blood out of a stone.

The most important part of being a landlord is the due diligence before you let a tenant into the place.

Due diligence only works to a certain extent, what landlord is going to give a bad reference if they are anxious to get rid of a tenant, what employer gives a bad reference and a bank only gives you the information that they can theoretically afford the rent.
The tenant in turn decided what they spend their money on and that might not be the rent. I have one who spends it on cocaine, something none of the referees mentioned and that the tenant omitted to mention during his interviews with the letting agents

noodler

I don't know what rent supplement he is talking about.

HAP goes directly to the LL

lord quackinton

Mustardson wrote: »

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies and advice. It is much appreciated.
For what it's worth, I've tentatively approached 2 solicitors and neither wanted to issue a letter given the pandemic.
I'm in the process of slowing getting the tenant to submit the rent supplement application form (they are a non-Irish national and are repeatedly submitting it incorrectly/incomplete, and misinterpreting what is required. I'm being as patient as possible to help as ultimately it's my loss).

if you want a name of a solicitor who will deal with it, pm me.

Taylor365

Paulownia wrote: »

Due diligence only works to a certain extent, what landlord is going to give a bad reference if they are anxious to get rid of a tenant, what employer gives a bad reference and a bank only gives you the information that they can theoretically afford the rent.
The tenant in turn decided what they spend their money on and that might not be the rent. I have one who spends it on cocaine, something none of the referees mentioned and that the tenant omitted to mention during his interviews with the letting agents

Ah, there's your mistake!

eastwaller

• This is such a nightmare situation and as a landlord in a similar financial position as yourself - it's crazy how little rights we have. I wish I had done more research before starting as a landlord.
  
• Have you registered the tenancy with RTB? You could try their mediation service also. I only had one dealing with them as a tenant years ago and I won the case but it took them 3 years to enforce.
  
• I know nothing about the law but from some quick Googling I'd start making vague threats and then more serious ones - whether you follow up on them or not is another matter.
  
• "The landlord may commence court action against the tenant for recovery of rent, the court depending on the amount owed by the tenant. If it is less than €15,000 it will be by way of claim notice in the District Court. If it is between above €15,000 and up to €75,000 it will be by way civil bill in the Circuit Court. Any amount in excess of this means that proceedings will have to be taken in the High Court."
  
• Keep all communications with them in writing or summarise calls and send them in an email once you are done. Write everything down. I think it's illegal to record calls without their consent also. If there is any case or proceedings and you are seen to be reasonable (which you are) it will stand in your favour.

The relationship with your tenants should be strictly business - they shouldn't know any personal details about you (I wouldn't have told them I am moving country etc) and vice versa (i.e. knowing they have young children) if possible facilitated by an agency who will do background checks etc. I know the tenant could genuinely be in an awful situation but it's a business arrangement and not a personal one and needs to be treated as such.

Fol20

hoodie6029 wrote: »

I wouldn't give a bank statement or payslip to a landlord or agent. You'll get a letter from my employer stating I'm in permanent employment, a Landlord reference and that's it.

Fair enough, it is your choice. If I’m not a 100pc if I will take you and you decline my request,I just won’t take you. Simple as that.

The_Conductor

Fol20 wrote: »

Fair enough, it is your choice. If I’m not a 100pc if I will take you and you decline my request,I just won’t take you. Simple as that.

There has to be a recognition that a landlord is letting a property that costs hundreds of thousands of Euro. They are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart- it is a business transaction, period. If landlord is unable to safeguard their asset, by whatsoever means they deem necessary, they have no obligation whatsoever to let it to you (obviously not you Fol20) or anyone else- they simply move onto someone they consider to be a more appropriate tenant for their property.

It may be 'your home' but it remains 'their property'- and they have a right to safeguard their property. If you have an issue with their request- you can simply move on and look at a different property (and there are plenty of properties out there at the moment).

Fol20

The_Conductor wrote: »

There has to be a recognition that a landlord is letting a property that costs hundreds of thousands of Euro. They are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart- it is a business transaction, period. If landlord is unable to safeguard their asset, by whatsoever means they deem necessary, they have no obligation whatsoever to let it to you (obviously not you Fol20) or anyone else- they simply move onto someone they consider to be a more appropriate tenant for their property.

It may be 'your home' but it remains 'their property'- and they have a right to safeguard their property. If you have an issue with their request- you can simply move on and look at a different property (and there are plenty of properties out there at the moment).

Agreed. I completely understand that some people don’t like the breach of privacy aspect to this but as you point out, we are risking a lot of money by picking you so I as a ll don’t want to make the wrong decision. Some ll don’t request them while others do, I generally always veer on the more cautious side so prefer to get them. You learn best by making mistakes and I put my hands up that I have made this mistake when I was younger. Now I would prefer to have the place idle than make a decision on a tenant I’m not a 100pc on. It’s nothing against a tenant, I look at these references once and then forget about them as once I hand over the keys, I have passed the point of no return in any case. It’s nothing personal at all, it’s just a business transaction - I’m sure when you buy a new car or move job, you do all your research first and in the same vein, ll do the same.

JimmyVik

Paulownia wrote: »

Due diligence only works to a certain extent, what landlord is going to give a bad reference if they are anxious to get rid of a tenant, what employer gives a bad reference and a bank only gives you the information that they can theoretically afford the rent.
The tenant in turn decided what they spend their money on and that might not be the rent. I have one who spends it on cocaine, something none of the referees mentioned and that the tenant omitted to mention during his interviews with the letting agents

When I was looking landlords asked for bank statements and references from last 3 landlords. They dont even bother with current landlord reference anymore. I guess you could still make up all those references though if you were clever.

JimmyVik

eastwaller wrote: »

• This is such a nightmare situation and as a landlord in a similar financial position as yourself - it's crazy how little rights we have. I wish I had done more research before starting as a landlord.
• Have you registered the tenancy with RTB? You could try their mediation service also. I only had one dealing with them as a tenant years ago and I won the case but it took them 3 years to enforce.
• I know nothing about the law but from some quick Googling I'd start making vague threats and then more serious ones - whether you follow up on them or not is another matter.
• "The landlord may commence court action against the tenant for recovery of rent, the court depending on the amount owed by the tenant. If it is less than €15,000 it will be by way of claim notice in the District Court. If it is between above €15,000 and up to €75,000 it will be by way civil bill in the Circuit Court. Any amount in excess of this means that proceedings will have to be taken in the High Court."
• Keep all communications with them in writing or summarise calls and send them in an email once you are done. Write everything down. I think it's illegal to record calls without their consent also. If there is any case or proceedings and you are seen to be reasonable (which you are) it will stand in your favour.

The relationship with your tenants should be strictly business - they shouldn't know any personal details about you (I wouldn't have told them I am moving country etc) and vice versa (i.e. knowing they have young children) if possible facilitated by an agency who will do background checks etc. I know the tenant could genuinely be in an awful situation but it's a business arrangement and not a personal one and needs to be treated as such.

Just curious. You seem to have experience in the area and are aware of the pitfalls. What makes you decide to stay a landlord and not get out?


A couple of years ago I was researching this with a view to going into residential investment. For the reasons obvious throughout this thread I decided becoming a landlord was heavily skewed on the risk side.

Claw Hammer

eastwaller wrote: »

• This is such a nightmare situation and as a landlord in a similar financial position as yourself - it's crazy how little rights we have. I wish I had done more research before starting as a landlord.
  
• Have you registered the tenancy with RTB? You could try their mediation service also. I only had one dealing with them as a tenant years ago and I won the case but it took them 3 years to enforce.
  
• I know nothing about the law but from some quick Googling I'd start making vague threats and then more serious ones - whether you follow up on them or not is another matter.
  
• "The landlord may commence court action against the tenant for recovery of rent, the court depending on the amount owed by the tenant. If it is less than €15,000 it will be by way of claim notice in the District Court. If it is between above €15,000 and up to €75,000 it will be by way civil bill in the Circuit Court. Any amount in excess of this means that proceedings will have to be taken in the High Court."
  
  
  
  .

This is completely wrong. Legal advice from Solicitor Google is dangerous.
From another thread you started it is obvious that you don't have a clue. Keep it up and you will get into serious trouble and have a lot of hassle and expense.
Residential Tenancies Act 2004
182.—(1) On and from the commencement of Part 6, proceedings may not be instituted in any court in respect of a dispute that may be referred to the Board for resolution under that Part unless one or more of the following reliefs is being claimed in the proceedings—

(a) damages of an amount of more than €20,000,

(b) recovery of arrears of rent or other charges, or both, due under a tenancy of an amount, or an aggregate amount, of more than €60,000 or such lesser amount as would be applicable in the circumstances concerned by virtue of section 115 (3)(b) or (c)(ii).

(2) In this section “dispute” has the same meaning as it has in Part 6.

beauf

The Govt keep heaping broken rules and laws on each other. They've broken the sector. They've broken housing. This will not end well.

handlemaster

noodler wrote: »

I don't know what rent supplement he is talking about.

HAP goes directly to the LL

Only if the tenant continues to pay the local council, once that stops HAP stops paying the rent to the LL

utmbuilder

Come on, asking the tenant had he 3 to 6 months savings, and believing him,

that would be 6 months rent 10,000,
and probably another 10,000 living expenses, sure he would have A1 credit and a deposit in that case.

solicitors are a complete waste of time in this area, complete and utter waste of money.

You need to think critically, and recognize now the ball is in his court, and rebuild your relationship with him urgently.

Tell him you got on to your bank for a mortgage break, if any letters come from the bank let you know as your very worried but understand the situation, keep working with him but prepare for a 3 month gap hopefully to keep him onside, 900 hap seems extremely low, i thought emergancy hap was 1900 in Dublin?

be smart dont let this ****er cost you 18 months and ruin your house, theres no way to get him out face it, be his best friend and start getting paid again your out of the country so your tax exile that's extremely attractive so taking hap's not an issue.

dodzy

Mustardson wrote: »

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies and advice. It is much appreciated.
For what it's worth, I've tentatively approached 2 solicitors and neither wanted to issue a letter given the pandemic.
I'm in the process of slowing getting the tenant to submit the rent supplement application form (they are a non-Irish national and are repeatedly submitting it incorrectly/incomplete, and misinterpreting what is required. I'm being as patient as possible to help as ultimately it's my loss).

I guarantee you one thing, they know exactly how to complete the forms, all of them. You can bet your ass that if they were submitting paperwork to the DEASP, they could frame the applications as to "how claim forms should be completed". It's the Irish that typically make a mess of the paperwork; the foreign nationals have it well sussed.

pwurple

OP, approach your own lender on a compassionate basis.

I put Covid19 rent breaks temporarily on properties for people who lost their jobs, or businesses that shut.

I was only able to afford to do this by reducing the mortgages.


I strongly advise you stand well clear of doing forms for your tenant. You are not their parent.