Off Topic Thread 5.0

Yeah_Right

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think if the Democrats get both houses of congress and the Presidency then they should make radical reforms to the entire government. The US constitution is no longer fit for purpose, electoral representation is broken in favour of a conservative super minority.

I think they should tear the entire house down and becomes the country they could be as opposed to the broken one they are.

That's a nice dream but it won't happen. What they should focus on is electoral college reform and redistricting. If they could get that through, they could hold on to power for a long time.

Podge_irl

The redistricting is mostly done at state level and after the census results. So it'll be good news if they control more state legislatures.

Of course, there is no guarantee they won't try and gerrymander them the other way round, but one can only hope.

Zzippy

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That's a nice dream but it won't happen. What they should focus on is electoral college reform and redistricting. If they could get that through, they could hold on to power for a long time.

Before they embark on any major reform they have to address the imbalance in the Supreme Court. The Republicans will just tie everything up in legal argument , even if the Democrats control all 3 branches , and a conservative court will rule against change.

Neil3030

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That's a nice dream but it won't happen. What they should focus on is electoral college reform and redistricting. If they could get that through, they could hold on to power for a long time.

Once Texas goes blue it will be the GOP suddenly crying out for EC reform, watch.

Dog Botherer

The Democrats have little to no incentive to do anything, really. bar a few well meaning younger Reps the vast majority are eager to brush the last 4 years under the rug and go back to the same disastrous approaches that got us here.

Maybe with massive increase in youth turnout they’ll reconsider. but then again, who are the kids gonna vote for if they don’t? the far right religious fundamentalist Republican party? the lunatics of the Libertarian party? the Greens who barely scrape a percentage of the vote?

And what’s the worst case for the Dems if they lose? they spend 4 years making absolute bank on fundraising from outraged middle and upper class libs. they’ve made so much money this election cycle they’re pissing away $100 million trying to unseat McConnell with a candidate who’s never polled within 10 points of him. it’s a game to them. they all get paid. we all lose.

sorry living in the USA has been insanely bleak for the last 6 years. hard to have any faith in any of this ****.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

The Democrats have played their part in making the States the way it is. I really don't think there's any point looking for them to fix things. This isnt a good guy vs bad guy tale. The Republicans have gone off the deep end in the last decade or so, but certainly until then they were 2 sides of the same coin...

You are completely correct, but the last ten years is also a sea change in terms of political norms and the arrival of social media and the growth of the likes of fox news has dramatically changed the calibre and intent of public representative and that to me presents an immediate and serious threat to the general functionality of the government and by extension - the wellbeing of the country.

I don't think they should tear up the constitution on day 1 - but they need to use the first two years (if they have both houses) far more aggressively than Obama did and whilst he was right to try and run a bipartisan government he did it with the wrong group of Republicans.

Biden should tell the GOP to go f*** itself and push a highly aggressive and transformative agenda through to 2022. That would include expanding the Supreme Court, Electoral reform including a full overhaul of political donations, granting statehood to Puerto Rico and Washington DC, expand Obamacare to include a public option, expand gun control and relieve student debt.

And they really need to change how the federal government and states interact in terms of the application of federal law. They could learn a lot from the European Union on this.

sydthebeat

The dems could do worse than listen to why people voted trump in in the first place, to ensure the likes of that doesn't happen again. They've always been quite centrist but maybe they need a nudge to the right for a short while.

The Saunders / Warren's of their party need to take a back seat for a while... And I think a Biden / Harris four years is the right ticket for that. They will find it very hard to undo the environmental damage that trumps policies have caused AND AT THE SAME TIME keep the same financial aspirations for those low level workers who gained under trumps environmental terrorism.

Buer

If the Democrats tried to pull apart the system of government unilaterally and reform it in a manner more suited to themselves (regardless of whether it just rebalanced the system), they would be everything they've come to hate about the GOP.

They would also see massive opposition in both the American public and within their own party. Getting everyone to vote against Trump is one thing. Getting them to not go absolutely ballistic at the idea of changing the make up of government and/or constitution is another. We're veering into modern civil war territory whatever shape that would take.

Dog Botherer

Yeah lads ye are vastly overestimating how willing Biden would be to change anything. he’s always been a very right wing Dem. he gave the eulogy at Strom Thurmond’s funeral for gods sake. he gave a quote earlier this year to his biggest Wall Street donors earlier this year, the people he is actually accountable to, reassuring them that “nothing would fundamentally change”. and he’s kept that tone throughout, when able, of being a return to the status quo.

Now, the question is, with the economy over a cliff and about to smash into the rocky ground early next year, with massive civil unrest, and with a likely unprecedented mandate for change, will that work? you’d have to say, probably not. so then it falls upon him to be that radical change, a true challenge that i’m not convinced that he is all capable of.

of course, Biden will, has he has hinted, likely he mostly a figurehead and his cabinet, presumably along with Harris, will actually be the driving force of policy in the administration. but Harris is hardly a radical either.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

If the Democrats tried to pull apart the system of government unilaterally and reform it in a manner more suited to themselves (regardless of whether it just rebalanced the system), they would be everything they've come to hate about the GOP.

They would also see massive opposition in both the American public and within their own party. Getting everyone to vote against Trump is one thing. Getting them to not go absolutely ballistic at the idea of changing the make up of government and/or constitution is another. We're veering into modern civil war territory whatever shape that would take.

There is a huge risk that Trump may yet defraud the electorate and use the courts and senate majority to secure another 4 years despite a crushing defeat in the polls.

That's civil war territory too.

Dog Botherer

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Yeah lads ye are vastly overestimating how willing Biden would be to change anything. he’s always been a very right wing Dem. he gave the eulogy at Strom Thurmond’s funeral for gods sake. he gave a quote earlier this year to his biggest Wall Street donors earlier this year, the people he is actually accountable to, reassuring them that “nothing would fundamentally change”. and he’s kept that tone throughout, when able, of being a return to the status quo.

Now, the question is, with the economy over a cliff and about to smash into the rocky ground early next year, with massive civil unrest, and with a likely unprecedented mandate for change, will that work? you’d have to say, probably not. so then it falls upon him to be that radical change, a true challenge that i’m not convinced that he is all capable of.

of course, Biden will, has he has hinted, likely he mostly a figurehead and his cabinet, presumably along with Harris, will actually be the driving force of policy in the administration. but Harris is hardly a radical either.

Harris is definitely no radical - but she supported the green new deal which in itself is quite significant.

Some of the most popular Democrats at the moment (Warren, Sanders, AOC, Buttigieg) are also some of the most progressive members of the party and I think they'll pull the administration to the ever so slight left of centre.

Harris is running for President in 4 years and I think she'll be front and centre throughout Biden's term.

As an aside - I'm hugely impressed with Buttigieg, by far the most capable communicator in the Democratic party and definitely a future Presidential contender (if people can get over his sexuality).

Neil3030

Look up Jon Ossoff, running for a Senate seat in GA. Another Dem for the future. Made an absolute fool out of the bigoted GOP dinosaur incumbent in their debate.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

Look up Jon Ossoff, running for a Senate seat in GA. Another Dem for the future. Made an absolute fool out of the bigoted GOP dinosaur incumbent in their debate.

He did such a number on Perdue that Perdue pulled out of the final debate.

What impresses me so much about Buttigeig is how he handles right wing media. He has a very casual, disarming manner but makes very cutting and direct arguments that effectively cut through the background noise and highlights the absurdity of contemporary conservative politics.

Dog Botherer

Ah lads, Buttigieg is a polished turd doing an Obama impression. He was a very unpopular mayor of a small town near me, he’s most widely known there for firing a well liked black police chief for cracking down on racism in his force. he’s a slick operator who believes in nothing, and has never held a consistent position on any issue. he tried running for a state wide race here in Indiana and he came a distant third after it came out he was trying to court insane far right Tea Partiers to support his bid. It is also notable that he is not currently running for or holds any political office, although that suggests he expects a role in a Biden administration (presumably in exchange for dropping out insanely early and endorsing Biden).

Ossoff is similar, he crashed and burned in one of the earliest special elections of Trump’s term running a generic Dem platform. In fairness he’s miles better than the monster he’s running against, but expecting anything radically different from him is a bit much.

There’s precious little to be excited about in terms of young Dems. AOC is well known and very popular, Ilhan Omar, Katie Porter, and Rashida Tlaib are also fantastic. Of the (to-be) newly elected crop, Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush are the ones to watch.

molloyjh

Ah bless lads, you're talking as though facts, reasoned argument and accuracy actually matter a damn. The US is way too far gone for that. The incredible us vs them narrative on both sides ensures continued polarisation which leads to a refusal to listen to anything that doesn't confirm that your side is right.

It doesn't matter how good a Democrat is. How accurate, reasonable, decent, cutting or direct any of their points are. Peoples minds are already made up and far too many are not for turning.

I've no idea how that gets fixed. It certainly doesn't in the midst of a global pandemic that is going to take a real bite out of their economy. Thats just going to ensure this stuff is amplified further. There is no clear path out of this. What is needed is real leadership on both sides of the split to work to heal the divisions. But they are so ingrained in so many peoples fundamental beliefs that I can't see that happening.

Dog Botherer

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Ah lads.

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah bless lads.

:pac:

The Republicans absolutely have the leadership. McConnell is probably one of the most effective legislators in American history. What they lack is an incentive to help anyone or fix things. Somehow the mega rich are making a ton of money out of this economic collapse so until they start hurting don’t expect much cooperation from the Reps.

Neil3030

source

Estimates from 2016:
Dems 94% Biden
Republicans 92% Trump
Independents 43% Trump

Trump has lost 7% of the GOP vote and nearly 20% of Independents (though as the tweet suggests, this will adjust, somewhat).

That's from a starting point of losing the popular vote by 5m in 2016.

With a projected record turnout.

Landslide incoming.

Neil3030

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He did such a number on Perdue that Perdue pulled out of the final debate.

What impresses me so much about Buttigeig is how he handles right wing media. He has a very casual, disarming manner but makes very cutting and direct arguments that effectively cut through the background noise and highlights the absurdity of contemporary conservative politics.

There's now a campaign to flood everything he tweets with chicken memes and emojis. It's glorious.

Dog Botherer

Neil3030 wrote: »

source

Estimates from 2016:
Dems 94% Biden
Republicans 92% Trump
Independents 43% Trump

Trump has lost 7% of the GOP vote and nearly 20% of Independents (though as the tweet suggests, this will adjust, somewhat).

That's from a starting point of losing the popular vote by 5m in 2016.

With a projected record turnout.

Landslide incoming.

Most likely. It’s been pretty clear that since the coronavirus started to peak again that Trump has been on a clear downward trajectory. if polling holds he has pretty much no path to victory. he’s lost the suburbs, perhaps to a combination of those he’s offended by his crudeness and those worried about the pandemic and the cratering economy affecting them personally. Biden isn’t going to do anything to offend their sensibilities or their pockets so a switch is easy to stomach for them.

quite how the Democratic Party manages to handle having avowed socialists like AOC and Cori Bush under the same big tent as these right wingers and the Bush era Never Trump ghouls of the Lincoln Project will be... something.

swiwi_

I’m shaken and stirred.

RIP Sean Connery.

CatFromHue

They built buildings to last back in the day

https://twitter.com/RobCross247/status/1322604011040722947

https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.4447197,-9.4853593,3a,75y,286.81h,85.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbj8Ucz48iWKIlQvJWSJvoQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Looks like they're all still standing

Podge_irl

They did, but good luck heating them!

Zzippy

Podge_irl wrote: »

They did, but good luck heating them!

They wore vests and long johns back then too 😉

thomond2006

I'm looking forward to getting the off-topic thread back after Tuesday.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm looking forward to getting the off-topic thread back after Tuesday.

Oh thomond, you really believe this will be over on Tuesday? There's still plenty left to run on this and another few months of the current Presidency to run.

thomond2006

molloyjh wrote: »

Oh thomond, you really believe this will be over on Tuesday? There's still plenty left to run on this and another few months of the current Presidency to run.

I'd like the off-topic thread to not be overrun by Trump and Brexit.

Squidgy Black

#makeofftopicnflagain

thomond2006

Squidgy Black wrote: »

#makeofftopicnflagain

Make off topic anything but Trump and Boris again!

swiwi_

thomond2006 wrote: »

Make off topic anything but Trump and Boris again!

Hopefully Joe third time lucky.

Biden. His time - better late than never.

Bazzo

Couldn't agree more thomond.

The sooner Boris and trump and their band of merry men **** off into oblivion and we never hear from them or have to talk about them again the better!