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Off Topic Thread 5.0

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    #3662
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,491 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    There is no way Trump will be allowed to stay in the White House forever, as after the 20th January 2021 it will be for Biden.


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    #3663
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    There is no way Trump will be allowed to stay in the White House forever, as after the 20th January 2021 it will be for Biden.


    Trump planning a series of campaign rallies and looks like his appointees are going to force litigation to get the transition signed off. I'm maybe a little surprised he's decided to dig in but it looks like they are going to have to scratch him out like a tick.

    Any chance he might have had of leniency will not survive an attempt to subvert the vote I'd imagine and he might even add to his tally of legal woes. Cohen thinks he'll wait until January and then decamp to Maralago.

    No predicting the next two months but having proper leadership in America might speed up the fight against Covid. I honestly believe had any previous President been in charge when covid struck it may well have been contained and having the worlds largest economy focusing on this again will hopefully make a difference both inside and outside America.


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    #3664
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,236 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Election is called for Biden on Saturday. Pfizer announce they have an effective vaccine which has come through the final trial on the following Monday morning. Call me cynical.....

    Not that I care. Great news if this comes to pass. The EU has a pre-order of 200 million doses from Pfizer with an option for a further 100 million. Production on those is to start before the end of 2020 if approval comes through. The EU has a population of 450 million so that would be a huge step towards having a vaccinated society and life returning to normal.


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    #3665
    MaybeMaybe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭MaybeMaybe


    Is it more like the flu vaccine that we'll have to get each year or will it last longer than that?


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    #3666
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MaybeMaybe wrote: »
    Is it more like the flu vaccine that we'll have to get each year or will it last longer than that?

    It could be more than once a year but the efficacy at 90% is really positive and will allows governments to ringfence outbreaks. It's another tool in the fight but probably the most major one.

    Getting enough of it initially will take time but this is very positive news.

    Hopefully this 'mink mutation' doesn't scupper things.


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    #3667
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Buer wrote: »
    Election is called for Biden on Saturday. Pfizer announce they have an effective vaccine which has come through the final trial on the following Monday morning. Call me cynical.....

    Not that I care. Great news if this comes to pass. The EU has a pre-order of 200 million doses from Pfizer with an option for a further 100 million. Production on those is to start before the end of 2020 if approval comes through. The EU has a population of 450 million so that would be a huge step towards having a vaccinated society and life returning to normal.

    90% efficacy sounds like a brilliant result to me, from what I've been reading. My understanding is the FDA require 50% efficacy to licence a vaccine.

    Now we just need to hope that mutation int he virus from mink doesn't start circulating, otherwise we're back to square one...

    EDIT: What Venjur said....


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    #3668
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I honestly believe had any previous President been in charge when covid struck it may well have been contained and having the worlds largest economy focusing on this again will hopefully make a difference both inside and outside America.

    No. I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the USA. For all the things Trump has done wrong, the true foundations of Covid long pre-exist his presidency. Science denial had been rife in the religious right, a huge section of the population, for decades. it’s healthcare system barely functions and is a joke worldwide. pandemic response had been cut since the Bush era.in theory, economically the USA should be easily able to handle this crisis. in reality, it’s society is poison, and none of the systems required to fight this plague, well, function. if a “competent” democrat held the reigns during this the response probably would not have been hugely different. State governors control the majority of the actual response and i guarantee you not one Republican governor would have considered shutting down their states for a second.

    the USA didn’t have enough masks early in the lockdown and as a result Fauci told people that they didn’t help so that doctors could actually get a useable amount. things like that do more to erode confidence in a government than anything but what choice did they have? if they didn’t lie the hospital system would have collapsed. but now, to this day, ~40% of the country straight up does not believe that masks do anything. it’s systematic failures like this, that would exist under any administration, that are the true issue.

    i mean, Biden isn’t calling for another lockdown. back when the primaries were on and he was desperate to beat Bernie his campaign fought against mail in ballot and he himself encouraged supporters to vote in person.

    I often think of what historian Patrick Wyman said of this crisis; “when you have a crisis, it exposes the weaknesses and cracks in our systems”. all of those weaknesses and cracks have been exposed. it remains to see how many of those are repairable and how many institutions and organisations need to be torn out and rebuilt from scratch.


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    #3669
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Hopefully this 'mink mutation' doesn't scupper things.

    The news on the culling of minks in Denmark probably had more of a saddening impact on me than any other Covid news recently. Millions of animals have to be put down. I feel horrible for the people/workers that have to be involved.


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    #3670
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    The potential pandemic response measures Obama and Biden outlined before Trump came to power read extremely similar to what Europe did.

    It’s definitely a country of wackos but I don’t accept for a second that a different president wouldn’t have taken a completely different approach


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    #3671
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    No. I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the USA. For all the things Trump has done wrong, the true foundations of Covid long pre-exist his presidency. Science denial had been rife in the religious right, a huge section of the population, for decades. it’s healthcare system barely functions and is a joke worldwide. pandemic response had been cut since the Bush era.in theory, economically the USA should be easily able to handle this crisis. in reality, it’s society is poison, and none of the systems required to fight this plague, well, function. if a “competent” democrat held the reigns during this the response probably would not have been hugely different. State governors control the majority of the actual response and i guarantee you not one Republican governor would have considered shutting down their states for a second.

    the USA didn’t have enough masks early in the lockdown and as a result Fauci told people that they didn’t help so that doctors could actually get a useable amount. things like that do more to erode confidence in a government than anything but what choice did they have? if they didn’t lie the hospital system would have collapsed. but now, to this day, ~40% of the country straight up does not believe that masks do anything. it’s systematic failures like this, that would exist under any administration, that are the true issue.

    i mean, Biden isn’t calling for another lockdown. back when the primaries were on and he was desperate to beat Bernie his campaign fought against mail in ballot and he himself encouraged supporters to vote in person.

    I often think of what historian Patrick Wyman said of this crisis; “when you have a crisis, it exposes the weaknesses and cracks in our systems”. all of those weaknesses and cracks have been exposed. it remains to see how many of those are repairable and how many institutions and organisations need to be torn out and rebuilt from scratch.

    That's not really what I mean though. Here is a video from 2014 where Obama basically spells out what ultimately happened 6 years later.



    Having competent leadership that understands risk at the head of the worlds largest economy and largest power projector could have had a significant impact. Getting experts on the ground in China immediately, getting the word out from a credible source (not Trump) and using the state department effectively could have curbed covid substantially.

    It may not have, there are no definitive's - but Trump defunded the pandemic response team prior to covid and then called it a hoax. The damage of these two actions alone on a global scale are hard to quantify.


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    #3672
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,609 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Looks like Pfizer have done a pretty good job at making a vaccine for Covid.

    Looks like Denmark have done a pretty good job at making a Covid for the Vaccine.


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    #3673
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,236 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    The news on the culling of minks in Denmark probably had more of a saddening impact on me than any other Covid news recently. Millions of animals have to be put down. I feel horrible for the people/workers that have to be involved.

    Denmark set to be the world's best dressed nation in 2021.


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    #3674
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That's not really what I mean though. Here is a video from 2014 where Obama basically spells out what ultimately happened 6 years later.


    Yeah i agree on the hoax thing in fairness, that has had dire consequences worldwide.

    Again, Trump was not the first defund that pandemic response, it had been gutted since the Bush years. Biden calling for “experts” on the ground in China cracked me up; how did his experts on the ground in Iraq turn out for everyone? blatant sabre rattling and a way to attack Trump from the right.

    didn’t Fauci serve under Obama in the same role? genuinely do wonder if Obama would have instructed him to lie about the masks in the same way. don’t really know either way.

    on a side note i think an unexpected side effect of this is that America is done as the world’s biggest economy. it’s a ghost economy right now and experts expect another crash after Christmas. meanwhile it’s business as usual in China.


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    #3675
    Synode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Synode


    Buer wrote: »
    Denmark set to be the world's best dressed nation in 2021.

    I'd assume the animals will be destroyed and nothing harvested


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    #3676
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    Yeah i agree on the hoax thing in fairness, that has had dire consequences worldwide.

    Again, Trump was not the first defund that pandemic response, it had been gutted since the Bush years. Biden calling for “experts” on the ground in China cracked me up; how did his experts on the ground in Iraq turn out for everyone? blatant sabre rattling and a way to attack Trump from the right.

    didn’t Fauci serve under Obama in the same role? genuinely do wonder if Obama would have instructed him to lie about the masks in the same way. don’t really know either way.

    on a side note i think an unexpected side effect of this is that America is done as the world’s biggest economy. it’s a ghost economy right now and experts expect another crash after Christmas. meanwhile it’s business as usual in China.

    Fauci didn't lie about masks. Before we fully understood asymptomatic transmission people with symptoms needed to stay home and not go out, mask or not. When we realised that the virus could spread without symptoms masks became essential. Here is Fauci talking about it specifically:



    I don't know why you are equating covid to the situation in Iraq, two entirely different scenarios.

    American intelligence picked up on covid early and Trump had zero interest, there was a leadership vacuum. Take Bush, Obama, Biden or Clinton and put them into that situation and you have a massive, immediate response - intense pressure on China and likely a worldwide coordinated response with the WHO.

    Everyone taking this seriously from the start and pre-emptive measures could have changed the early profile of covid entirely. America would have thrown money at this in the early stages and we'd have been a lot further along in our understanding by the time Italy shut down.


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    #3677
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    didn’t Fauci serve under Obama in the same role?

    I think Fauci has served under a lot of administrations in the same role. I seem to remember seeing he'd been in place for 30 years or something


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    #3678
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Unfortunately there are plenty of mink in our countryside.
    Viscous brutes as well.


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    #3679
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Fauci didn't lie about masks. Before we fully understood asymptomatic transmission people with symptoms needed to stay home and not go out, mask or not. When we realised that the virus could spread without symptoms masks became essential. Here is Fauci talking about it specifically:


    Ah okay, so you’re referring to America’s response as global policeman, rather than domestically. seems we had misunderstood each other. just out of curiosity, what would “intense pressure” on China look like to you? Biden is no fan of China and was calling for similar but i don’t really know what it would have entailed. seems like they have it well under control regardless.

    Well, whether Fauci claims that they didn’t know or not, the masks definitely did not exist and there was no way to make them. i think he’s at best being dishonest. but it is his job to not cause public panic too.

    the Iraq was mostly a joke, i don’t really think Biden wants to invade China. the USA would be humiliated and their economy flattened. it was just reminiscent is all.


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    #3680
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,654 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    OldRio wrote: »
    Unfortunately there are plenty of mink in our countryside.
    Viscous brutes as well.

    They've started running tests in Cork, Donegal and Laois in mink farms today actually. They've found cases in the US, Italy, Spain, Holland and Sweden.

    We've a fair amount of wild mink too who were dumped from farms which is the main concern.


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    #3681
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    They've started running tests in Cork, Donegal and Laois in mink farms today actually. They've found cases in the US, Italy, Spain, Holland and Sweden.

    We've a fair amount of wild mink too who were dumped from farms which is the main concern.

    knew a lad from Mayo who used to go around hunting wild mink with a shovel when he was a young teen. farmers would give him a few quid if he got any.


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    #3682
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    Ah okay, so you’re referring to America’s response as global policeman, rather than domestically. seems we had misunderstood each other. just out of curiosity, what would “intense pressure” on China look like to you? Biden is no fan of China and was calling for similar but i don’t really know what it would have entailed. seems like they have it well under control regardless.

    Yeah it's more the global response. The damage was done by the time America was getting a handful of cases per day.

    I don't know what pressure on China would look like, I do know that only America is big enough to potentially pressure China and a pandemic response isn't necessarily something countries are going to quarrel over. Functional leadership in America could have applied pressure globally on this and no doubt would have - but just by taking it deadly seriously there would have been a more effective call to action.

    I feel like just that healthy dose of reality at the outset alone would have made a difference and instead we had utter morons like Johnson proudly shaking hands and nearly dying and Trump fully politicising it from the outset.


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    #3683
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,654 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Dog Botherer wrote: »
    knew a lad from Mayo who used to go around hunting wild mink with a shovel when he was a young teen. farmers would give him a few quid if he got any.

    Yep they're fúckers, mate of mine was plagued by them on his farm in Cork, they'd get into the hen houses and just ravage the place. Birds, dogs, cats and even horses they've been known to kill when they hunt in packs.


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    #3684
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Buer wrote: »
    Election is called for Biden on Saturday. Pfizer announce they have an effective vaccine which has come through the final trial on the following Monday morning. Call me cynical.....

    Not that I care. Great news if this comes to pass. The EU has a pre-order of 200 million doses from Pfizer with an option for a further 100 million. Production on those is to start before the end of 2020 if approval comes through. The EU has a population of 450 million so that would be a huge step towards having a vaccinated society and life returning to normal.

    Why cynical? The voting was over last Tuesday, they could have announced this on Wednesday. If they had the report re-election they were right to wait, knowing one party would attempt to claim credit and get a boost. The vaccine was developed without any help from the US government so it should never have been allowed to become an election topic.


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    #3685
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Why cynical? The voting was over last Tuesday, they could have announced this on Wednesday. If they had the report re-election they were right to wait, knowing one party would attempt to claim credit and get a boost. The vaccine was developed without any help from the US government so it should never have been allowed to become an election topic.

    I wouldn't even say it's down to the election, I think it's more to do with ensuring people take the vaccine and trust it. Trump announcing it the day before the election would have shot it's credibility (unfairly).


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    #3686
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭OldRio


    I lost a few hens to a mink a few years ago. It wasn't as lucky the second time. Horrid feckers


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    #3687
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Why cynical? The voting was over last Tuesday, they could have announced this on Wednesday. If they had the report re-election they were right to wait, knowing one party would attempt to claim credit and get a boost. The vaccine was developed without any help from the US government so it should never have been allowed to become an election topic.

    Saw this tweet on this exact topic, Pence claiming credit for Trump:

    https://twitter.com/davidenrich/status/1325799016098111489


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    #3688
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    aloooof wrote: »
    Saw this tweet on this exact topic, Pence claiming credit for Trump:

    https://twitter.com/davidenrich/status/1325799016098111489

    The MAGAts don't care for fact checking. They will happily share that claim and ignore the clarification. And Pence and the rest know this.


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    #3689
    Dog Botherer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Dog Botherer


    Yeah there’s no point hitting them with facts or logic. President Trump delivered us this miracle cure and sleepy Joe and Commie Kamala are trying to take credit for it. SAD!


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    #3690
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,407 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    The news on the culling of minks in Denmark probably had more of a saddening impact on me than any other Covid news recently. Millions of animals have to be put down. I feel horrible for the people/workers that have to be involved.

    They're animals who only exist to be slaughtered for coats, if that's any consolation


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    #3691
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    pickarooney wrote: »
    They're animals who only exist to be slaughtered for coats, if that's any consolation

    It is, in a way...


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