Off Topic Thread 5.0

The political, constitutional and electoral structure of America has turned it into a ship that appears to be sinking and all the doors are locked shut and can't be opened unless there is unanimous bipartisan agreement. That looks unachievable now.

The degree of misinformation it must take for a character like Trump to obtain 70 million votes of support really is the water coming over the bow at this stage.

Whether it's Trump or someone worse in 4 years I'm not sure it matters and the ongoing undermining of this election is going to make it hard for Biden to push through the type of electoral reform I feel is needed for a more moderate America to emerge.

The election of Biden shows that America can step back from the brink - but the fact that Trump ran on no platform at all indicates a sizeable cult which will push the US right back to that brink at the first opportunity.

Bazzo

Stheno wrote: »

Will Trump even be alive/compos mentos in four years? I'd be more inclined to Ivanka or Don Jnr running

Is Trump even compos mentis now?

Dog Botherer

Bazzo wrote: »

Or, fingers crossed, the schism splits the republican vote neatly into the crazies and the more moderates.

93% of Republicans who voted cast their vote for Trump, a 3% increase on 2016.

If there’s one thing i hope the Trump era truly kills I hope it’s the myth of the great hidden mass of “moderate Republicans”. turns out they’re either reactionary psychos or reactionary psychos who publicly find Trump gauche but vote for him anyway because they don’t want their taxes to go up.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The election of Biden shows that America can step back from the brink - but the fact that Trump ran on no platform at all indicates a sizeable cult which will push the US right back to that brink at the first opportunity.

Trump ran on Make America Great Again, Biden ran on Build Back Better. Neither of them really ran on any kind of platform.

mfceiling

Forgive my ignorance of American politics but are the republican party likely to let any Trump line out in 4 years?
Is there any intelligence behind the scenes who would get together quietly and say "this family can't be allowed near the office again"?

thomond2006

Mayo football is going to cause me to have a heart attack at some stage.

Dog Botherer

mfceiling wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance of American politics but are the republican party likely to let any Trump line out in 4 years?
Is there any intelligence behind the scenes who would get together quietly and say "this family can't be allowed near the office again"?

I don’t think that the Trumps ever posed enough of a threat to the Republican electoral project to provoke a reaction that strong. They got massive tax cuts, trillions in free money from the government stimulus packages, and a locked Supreme Court for a generation. They obviously turn out a massive voter base, i’d say there’s more for them to lose by pushing out the Trump family.

That said i think Trump will run again before Don Jr does.

Dave_The_Sheep

kuang1 wrote: »

There could be worse to come in the US in 4 years time.

This is what bothers me. Imagine someone running with the same bull**** that Trump did, the scaremongering, the anti-immigration platform, (alleged) anti establishment message, etc etc... but with genuine intelligence and charisma. Someone who can actually string a coherent sentence together, who doesn't have the plethora of character flaws and ****ty history that Trump has. Biden was blessed that Trump generally united his opponents against him and energised Democrat voters because they disliked him so much (rightly so). Imagine if that disappears.

That'll be far far more dangerous.

Bazzo

Dog Botherer wrote: »

93% of Republicans who voted cast their vote for Trump, a 3% increase on 2016.

If there’s one thing i hope the Trump era truly kills I hope it’s the myth of the great hidden mass of “moderate Republicans”. turns out they’re either reactionary psychos or reactionary psychos who publicly find Trump gauche but vote for him anyway because they don’t want their taxes to go up.



Trump ran on Make America Great Again, Biden ran on Build Back Better. Neither of them really ran on any kind of platform.

I'm not saying that republicans didn't vote for trump, I'm saying I think they would have voted for another republican instead if given the opportunity

Dog Botherer

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Trump ran on Make America Great Again, Biden ran on Build Back Better. Neither of them really ran on any kind of platform.

That's not true at all though. Biden has defined policy plans on health, climate, covid, education the economy and a range of other issues.

Trump's by contrast said his healthcare plan would be announced soon and he denies climate change. He has no plan to fight covid.

Trumps 'plan' can only be defined as whatever Trump wants to do while in office whereas you can read Biden's proposals in detail.

mfceiling wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance of American politics but are the republican party likely to let any Trump line out in 4 years?
Is there any intelligence behind the scenes who would get together quietly and say "this family can't be allowed near the office again"?

On the one hand, Trump lost. On the other hand - he won more votes than any Republican in history. I would rule nothing out.

Podge_irl

Biden has reasonably detailed plans on a lot of issues but realistically, a miniscule number of people actually cared about any of them. This was a personality election.

Not sure a 4 year older Trump will be in a great position to run again but honestly, at this stage, who the hell knows.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

Biden has reasonably detailed plans on a lot of issues but realistically, a miniscule number of people actually cared about any of them. This was a personality election.

Not sure a 4 year older Trump will be in a great position to run again but honestly, at this stage, who the hell knows.

I would say more that the type of person who reads a policy platform is never voting for someone like Trump anyway.

Dog Botherer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would say more that the type of person who reads a policy platform is never voting for someone like Trump anyway.

I just don’t think this is accurate. some Trump voters care very passionately about policies, like lower taxes, opposition to terrible trade deals like NAFTA which destroyed manufacturing jobs across the heart of the country, anti abortion legislation, etc. yeah there’s loads of awful ***** along for the culture war lib triggering **** but a lot of people know what the Republicans are and are fine with it. there’s also many more desperate people for whom the Democrats have done absolutely nothing and are desperate.

the Democratic base is begging for Medicare For All, begging for real action on climate change, begging for any kind of action from the party on helping desperate people whose lives have been ruined by the pandemic. they’ll be lucky if they get any of it. meanwhile every time the Republicans get any amount of power they exercise it. you can have all of the nice policies on a slick looking website, none of it means **** if the voters know in their hearts the vast majority of it is nothing but words.

pickarooney

Trump voters are to a large extent single-issue voters. If an inflatable cauliflower said 'no to abortion' and/or 'yes to guns' they'd get 50 million votes no questions asked.

Paul Weller

pickarooney wrote: »

Trump voters are to a large extent single-issue voters. If an inflatable cauliflower said 'no to abortion' and/or 'yes to guns' they'd get 50 million votes no questions asked.

Depends, I lived in Louisiana, oil industry is the be all, and end all to many people there.
Biden got about 39% of the vote & it would have been a lot less except for New Orleans...Lafourche where I lived was over 75%.
Americans are simple creatures, give them jobs, social security, a cheque for $1200 during the pandemic and they don't care what happens in LA or New York.
The amount of hatred for democrats and Joe Biden in states like this is just unbelievable, I had over 20 ex work colleagues attend that march in Washington yesterday.... it's scary to me, but they are a different breed altogether

Zzippy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Mayo football is going to cause me to have a heart attack at some stage.

If they haven't given you one by now I reckon you're safe enough...

Burkie1203

Podge_irl wrote: »

There have been fairly few cases of confirmed transmission on a plane. Pubs/Gyms/Restaurants/Homes are much bigger issues.

What about house parties or restaurant visits or working in HC setting in the days before travelling?


Ryanair keep banging the drum about planes being safe but its what happens in the days before someone gets on a plane that's an issue. Unless we go down the Australian model of putting people in hotel rooms for 14 days and make them pay for it then travel is a big issue

irishbucsfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

What about house parties or restaurant visits or working in HC setting in the days before travelling?


Ryanair keep banging the drum about planes being safe but its what happens in the days before someone gets on a plane that's an issue. Unless we go down the Australian model of putting people in hotel rooms for 14 days and make them pay for it then travel is a big issue

No. Travel isn't a big issue in your example. Going to house parties or wherever else is a big issue.

Burkie1203

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No. Travel isn't a big issue in your example. Going to house parties or wherever else is a big issue.

Yes, but if people aren't being sensible prior to travel, or if they work in Health care Setting etc where they are at higher risk then travel is an issue. Just not the method of travel.

thomond2006

Do we need martial law to stop the type of scenes on South William St?

It's ****ing upsetting to see it at this stage. Pit in the stomach stuff.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

Do we need martial law to stop the type of scenes on South William St?

It's ****ing upsetting to see it at this stage.

Martial Law is bit ott but just need the local Garda Superintendent to have a word with businesses down there and send a squad car down to move these people on and close the places if clearly acting the b****x

thomond2006

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Martial Law is bit ott but just need the local Garda Superintendent to have a word with businesses down there and send a squad car down to move these people on and close the places if clearly acting the b****x

Pints out the window needs to stop.

Businesses can't cry ignorance.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

Pints out the window needs to stop.

Businesses can't cry ignorance.

of course but you cant blame people trying to save their businesses though ultimately theyre doing a lot of harm to the pubs in regional areas that never have crowds etc and could get people social distanced and havent opened.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Pints out the window needs to stop.

Businesses can't cry ignorance.

Don't know what people expected with pubs open for take out

Neil3030

thomond2006 wrote: »

Do we need martial law to stop the type of scenes on South William St?

It's ****ing upsetting to see it at this stage. Pit in the stomach stuff.

Fairly timeless statement, tbf.

Neil3030

Projection theory teaches us that the best place to start looking for Trump's specific acts of misconduct is in whatever context he is trying to slander the Dems / Biden.

And we know that he has been beating various "rigged election" and "mail-in voting is corrupt" drums for some months now.

AND we know that so far, his vote has increased since 2016 by more than 10 million, total.

Is anybody having this conversation yet?

Dog Botherer

Neil3030 wrote: »

Projection theory teaches us that the best place to start looking for Trump's specific acts of misconduct is in whatever context he is trying to slander the Dems / Biden.

And we know that he has been beating various "rigged election" and "mail-in voting is corrupt" drums for some months now.

AND we know that so far, his vote has increased since 2016 by more than 10 million, total.

Is anybody having this conversation yet?

Voter suppression efforts by the Republicans disenfranchise millions of Americans every election. When black and poor people vote, they lose. They don’t need to stuff ballot boxes when some no name civil servant can just delete a few thousand lifelong Dems from voter rolls.

Listened to a fascinating interview earlier with a journalist called Greg Palast about it. He’s spent his entire career working in elections and inspecting and investigating them and he estimates that in Georgia alone over 200,000 people couldn’t vote in this election due to being systematically and intentionally purged from the register. Of course these people mostly came from black and poor neighborhoods.

errlloyd

thomond2006 wrote: »

Pints out the window needs to stop.

Businesses can't cry ignorance.

I was on South William St yesterday till around 4:30pm - ie when it got dark. Got a takeaway guinness from Le'Gueleton. Met a couple we are friends with - two households four people.

At the time we were there it was way less dangerous than the Sunday Market in Herbert Park, but it obviously got worse. Its annoying for me that the safe fun afternoon we had gets tarnished with that.

Neil3030

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Voter suppression efforts by the Republicans disenfranchise millions of Americans every election. When black and poor people vote, they lose. They don’t need to stuff ballot boxes when some no name civil servant can just delete a few thousand lifelong Dems from voter rolls.

Listened to a fascinating interview earlier with a journalist called Greg Palast about it. He’s spent his entire career working in elections and inspecting and investigating them and he estimates that in Georgia alone over 200,000 people couldn’t vote in this election due to being systematically and intentionally purged from the register. Of course these people mostly came from black and poor neighborhoods.

Exactly - GOP have always suppressed and gerrymandered.

So it doesn't explain the 10m+ jump in Trump's vote.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

Exactly - GOP have always suppressed and gerrymandered.

So it doesn't explain the 10m+ jump in Trump's vote.

Trump projects his own sins - manufacturing that kind of election fraud would require a multi state conspiracy.

It's not impossible but I think it's more likely that the tidal wave of unhinged bull**** did it's job on social media and via the right wing talk shows.

There are a lot of otherwise reasonable, bright people that I see coming out with all sorts of covid conspiracy nonsense on social media in Ireland. It's poisoning minds everywhere. A more polarised country like the US is ripe for it.

thomond2006

DeAndre Hopkins is ****ing amazing.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1328132728940765185?s=19