Off Topic Thread 5.0

Zzippy

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Who?

Video on Twitter of protesters scum confronting the guards at Grafton St. One protester scumbag fires what appears to be fireworks at guards faces from a few feet away.

The Inbetween is mine

Zzippy wrote: »

Video on Twitter of protesters scum confronting the guards at Grafton St. One protester scumbag fires what appears to be fireworks at guards faces from a few feet away.

I'd happily give the ARU free reign today ...
"The Purge Skanger Style"

Podge_irl

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Toasting a good performance today

Lovely drop

The Inbetween is mine

Podge_irl wrote: »

Lovely drop

I have the 12yo cask strength there as well... but I wanted the smoothness of this today

stephen_n

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm not blind to the frustrations. I've found the last 2 months in particular very tough. But my frustrations and difficulties are not more important than other people's lives. So I just have to suck it up and get on with it as best I can.

I don’t think it’s just frustration though this time. I know mental health has been a buzz word through out this. As someone who works very much frontline with this. The last two months have been a completely different animal, in the impact it’s having on people. The first two lockdowns had people anxious. The levels of moderate to severe depression this time are quite frightening though. The last couple of weeks I’ve often felt like the boy with his finger in the damn.

Stheno

stephen_n wrote: »

I don’t think it’s just frustration though this time. I know mental health has been a buzz word through out this. As someone who works very much frontline with this. The last two months have been a completely different animal, in the impact it’s having on people. The first two lockdowns had people anxious. The levels of moderate to severe depression this time are quite frightening though. The last couple of weeks I’ve often felt like the boy with his finger in the damn.

Do you any opinion as to why this is the case? Is it that people believe there is no hope?

The first set of restrictions was by far the worst for me as I was laid off 50% of the time and literally had nothing to do

Then I developed a few interests that have kept me somewhat sane but it still.sucks

thomond2006

Stheno wrote: »

Do you any opinion as to why this is the case? Is it that people believe there is no hope?

The first set of restrictions was by far the worst for me as I was laid off 50% of the time and literally had nothing to do

Then I developed a few interests that have kept me somewhat sane but it still.sucks

I can only speak for myself but the first lockdown had a strange novelty to it.
Now everyone is just fed up and I think it will only get worse, all other things being equal, as the weather improves.

I know Irish politics talk is banned from here, but I'll say that the communication from the previous administration was far better. In the current government we have various ministers contradicting each other regularly. It seems to be they don't understand what negative effect that has. The previous administration at least appeared competent (we'll know if that's the case down the line).

The huge spike post Christmas (thanks to the perfect storm of opening up and the variants) was a huge downer. I think we all knew we were in for the long haul then for 2021.

What happens to those agitators today is going to be quite important. We've tried the softly-softly approach and it has failed. All of those that can be identified need a criminal record.

stephen_n

Stheno wrote: »

Do you any opinion as to why this is the case? Is it that people believe there is no hope?

The first set of restrictions was by far the worst for me as I was laid off 50% of the time and literally had nothing to do

Then I developed a few interests that have kept me somewhat sane but it still.sucks

Stress is cumulative, the longer our stress responses are engaged, the more chance we will move towards the freeze response (depression).

There is a huge amount of uncertainty about how long this lock down will last. Uncertainty breeds fear. The first time people didn’t know what to expect, now they know but can’t see a way out of it. There is also a lot of fatigue with the likes of Zoom which were helping previously.

thomond2006

I forgot to mention: The lack of progress is vaccinating here versus the UK is a massive frustration, regardless of who (government/EU/HSE) is to blame. For me that's been the biggest downer of this lockdown.

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

I forgot to mention: The lack of progress is vaccinating here versus the UK is a massive frustration, regardless of who (government/EU/HSE) is to blame. For me that's been the biggest downer of this lockdown.

The only mild upside is that we are rolling out our delivered vaccines much better than France/Germany who are utterly ****e. They have millions of doses just sitting there.

thomond2006

Podge_irl wrote: »

The only mild upside is that we are rolling out our delivered vaccines much better than France/Germany who are utterly ****e. They have millions of doses just sitting there.

Thank you podge.

Please continue to post positively slanted vaccine news.

Zzippy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Thank you podge.

Please continue to post positively slanted vaccine news.

My missus got her first dose yesterday.

I agree with stephen, the general feeling I'm getting is much more widespread depression this time round. The weather hasn't helped. We had 4 suicides that I know of in Galway in a short space of time, river jumpers which are just the ones you hear about because of the rescue/search operations. I know of two young men who are part of the wider fishing community that I'm part of who took their own lives this week.

I agree with school closures, no household mixing etc but the 5km travel ban, and the heavy handed policing of same while inbound travel continues is *really* annoying people, and starting to get to me. It's fine if you live in a town with parks or access to somewhere to walk safely. It's really tough if you have nothing within 5k and local roads are too busy to walk safely with kids.

Podge_irl

Inbound travel just isn't that big a factor, as annoying as it may seem on a surface level.

Stheno

Podge_irl wrote: »

Inbound travel just isn't that big a factor, as annoying as it may seem on a surface level.

This really gets on my nerves tbh

How did the UK variant get in? Same with the Spanish one last summer?

Sorry podge, not having a go.at you but it.drives me bananas.

Maybe my understanding is wrong

Podge_irl

Stheno wrote: »

This really gets on my nerves tbh

How did the UK variant get in? Same with the Spanish one last summer?

Sorry podge, not having a go.at you but it.drives me bananas.

Maybe my understanding is wrong

There is a degree of truth to this. But it is obviously a trade-off. Given the amount of accompanied freight that we rely on and the border in the North it is impossible to lock down like NZ or Aus. Putting in border and quarantine controls on incoming travellers is little more than window dressing at this point.

Obviously I come at it from a different angle, as my inability to go home is my primary concern. I went home once in the last year and isolated for 10 days when I did it. However, when community transmission is as rampant as it is, it seems like little more than theatre. The "UK" variant was always going to get into Ireland, it was a matter of time.

stephen_n

Zzippy wrote: »

I agree with school closures, no household mixing etc but the 5km travel ban, and the heavy handed policing of same while inbound travel continues is *really* annoying people, and starting to get to me. It's fine if you live in a town with parks or access to somewhere to walk safely. It's really tough if you have nothing within 5k and local roads are too busy to walk safely with kids.

As time goes on I understand our decision not to go for zero Covid less and less. I haven’t heard any clear explanation from government as to why we couldn’t do this. It just seems to get dismissed without explanation. Having mandatory quarantine seems like the least we could do. Yet the government are totally against it.

thomond2006

Zzippy wrote: »

My missus got her first dose yesterday.

I agree with stephen, the general feeling I'm getting is much more widespread depression this time round. The weather hasn't helped. We had 4 suicides that I know of in Galway in a short space of time, river jumpers which are just the ones you hear about because of the rescue/search operations. I know of two young men who are part of the wider fishing community that I'm part of who took their own lives this week.

I agree with school closures, no household mixing etc but the 5km travel ban, and the heavy handed policing of same while inbound travel continues is *really* annoying people, and starting to get to me. It's fine if you live in a town with parks or access to somewhere to walk safely. It's really tough if you have nothing within 5k and local roads are too busy to walk safely with kids.

The 5k travel ban is something I can understand but in many ways it's annoying. If I drive 20k and go for a walk, there's no difference between that and walking within 1k of my home.

thomond2006

stephen_n wrote: »

As time goes on I understand our decision not to go for zero Covid less and less. I haven’t heard any clear explanation from government as to why we couldn’t do this. It just seems to get dismissed without explanation. Having mandatory quarantine seems like the least we could do. Yet the government are totally against it.

Isn't it a fallacy unless NI/UK do the same?

Stheno

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is a degree of truth to this. But it is obviously a trade-off. Given the amount of accompanied freight that we rely on and the border in the North it is impossible to lock down like NZ or Aus. Putting in border and quarantine controls on incoming travellers is little more than window dressing at this point.

Obviously I come at it from a different angle, as my inability to go home is my primary concern. I went home once in the last year and isolated for 10 days when I did it. However, when community transmission is as rampant as it is, it seems like little more than theatre. The "UK" variant was always going to get into Ireland, it was a matter of time.

The 54000+ who came in from the UK at Christmas doubtless helped spread it

I was gobsmacked at how people behaved at Christmas

I agree with zippy though its infuriating to have unfettered travel up to now with severe limits on citizens

Podge_irl

stephen_n wrote: »

As time goes on I understand our decision not to go for zero Covid less and less. I haven’t heard any clear explanation from government as to why we couldn’t do this. It just seems to get dismissed without explanation. Having mandatory quarantine seems like the least we could do. Yet the government are totally against it.

Because its impossible. Auckland has gone into lockdown because of one case. Unless you want to patrol the border up north with thousands of police and soldiers and stop all RO-RO freight in and out of the country then we can never reach the point of no isolated cases.

Podge_irl

Stheno wrote: »

The 54000+ who came in from the UK at Christmas doubtless helped spread it

I was gobsmacked at how people behaved at Christmas

I agree with zippy though its infuriating to have unfettered travel up to now with severe limits on citizens

There was never unfettered travel though. There were limits on incoming travellers the same as on residents. I didn't come home all year because I was required to self-isolate. Ireland was in fact one of the few countries in Europe to maintain restrictions on incoming travel all year.

The issue is that people did not obey the instructions but that is true of both incoming travellers and residents.

Zzippy

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is a degree of truth to this. But it is obviously a trade-off. Given the amount of accompanied freight that we rely on and the border in the North it is impossible to lock down like NZ or Aus. Putting in border and quarantine controls on incoming travellers is little more than window dressing at this point.

Obviously I come at it from a different angle, as my inability to go home is my primary concern. I went home once in the last year and isolated for 10 days when I did it. However, when community transmission is as rampant as it is, it seems like little more than theatre. The "UK" variant was always going to get into Ireland, it was a matter of time.

Not having a go at you Podge, you did it right, but an estimated 50,000 people came home for Christmas, and the vast majority did not isolate. That introduced the new variant to many communities and widespread locations simultaneously, resulting in the explosion in cases all over the country by new year. With travel restrictions/ mandatory quarantine we surely would still have imported the variant but not in such a superspreading manner, and the third wave might have been a lot more manageable.

stephen_n

thomond2006 wrote: »

Isn't it a fallacy unless NI/UK do the same?

Well that’s an option that could have been explored no?

Podge_irl wrote: »

Because its impossible. Auckland has gone into lockdown because of one case. Unless you want to patrol the border up north with thousands of police and soldiers and stop all RO-RO freight in and out of the country then we can never reach the point of no isolated cases.

Difficult yes, impossible no. I would imagine we would have a lot more localized lock downs around the border. The upside however seems to be quite attractive. I’m sure it’s not as simple as it might seem. Yes there are issues around accompanied freight as you pointed out. Which would have require adjustments. However the idea of a minimum quarantine period when entering the country, hardly seems like an excessive ask.

Podge_irl

Zzippy wrote: »

Not having a go at you Podge, you did it right, but an estimated 50,000 people came home for Christmas, and the vast majority did not isolate. That introduced the new variant to many communities and widespread locations simultaneously, resulting in the explosion in cases all over the country by new year. With travel restrictions/ mandatory quarantine we surely would still have imported the variant but not in such a superspreading manner, and the third wave might have been a lot more manageable.

I would question this bit though. I think the explosion was because of everyone's actions over Christmas. I don't doubt that many people who came home acted irresponsibly. But equally I'm sure that plenty of Irish residents simply mixed a lot more over Christmas.

It does not take much for the UK variant to become dominant. It is becoming so in Switzerland and we have reasonably severe restrictions on incoming travellers.

thomond2006

stephen_n wrote: »

Well that’s an option that could have been explored no?

I think it's safe to write off a one-island solution with the current NI executive.

Podge_irl

stephen_n wrote: »

Difficult yes, impossible no. I would imagine we would have a lot more localized lock downs around the border. The upside however seems to be quite attractive. I’m sure it’s not as simple as it might seem. Yes there are issues around accompanied freight as you pointed out. Which would have require adjustments. However the idea of a minimum quarantine period when entering the country, hardly seems like an excessive ask.

Auckland is in lockdown cause of one case.

Look at the chaos caused in Dover because France required a test before accompanied freight came in. They have somewhat ameliorated this but freight levels are still down. And requiring a test within X hours still won't stop people coming across and transmitting it so that's not even enough for "zero covid". Our entire freight industry would need to be changed for it to be even remotely a possibility.

The problem with Zero Covid is that it requires an absolute, unrelenting move to zero. What we would end up with is none of the freedom that Aus/NZ enjoy because there would constantly be isolated cases but significantly stronger restrictions.

stephen_n

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think it's safe to write off a one-island solution with the current NI executive.

I was actually thinking a two island strategy really. Though getting Bobo to agree might be difficult, you’d need to get his head out of the sand first.

thomond2006

stephen_n wrote: »

I was actually thinking a two island strategy really. Though getting Bobo to agree might be difficult, you’d need to get his head out of the sand first.

That might be more tenable than a IoI approach, but you would run into a massive problem as soon as one of the jurisdictions wanted something changed and the other didn't agree. Unfortunately, from my uneducated viewpoint, I think it's fantasy stuff and the calling for it amongst opposition parties is very hurler from the ditch.

stephen_n

Podge_irl wrote: »

Auckland is in lockdown cause of one case.

Look at the chaos caused in Dover because France required a test before accompanied freight came in. They have somewhat ameliorated this but freight levels are still down. And requiring a test within X hours still won't stop people coming across and transmitting it so that's not even enough for "zero covid". Our entire freight industry would need to be changed for it to be even remotely a possibility.

The problem with Zero Covid is that it requires an absolute, unrelenting move to zero. What we would end up with is none of the freedom that Aus/NZ enjoy because there would constantly be isolated cases but significantly stronger restrictions.

We should just close the border to Northern Ireland so Send all the nordies back too

Stheno

Podge_irl wrote: »

There was never unfettered travel though. There were limits on incoming travellers the same as on residents. I didn't come home all year because I was required to self-isolate. Ireland was in fact one of the few countries in Europe to maintain restrictions on incoming travel all year.

The issue is that people did not obey the instructions but that is true of both incoming travellers and residents.

Its also lack of enforcement by the powers that be imo

And the combination of people refusing to follow restrictions and no enforcement is what infuriates me

Now I wfh and most days don't go anywhere apart from to walk the dog

I know I'm very fortunate that I am not affected financially from this and I'm OK mentally, but my partner has had a torrid time of it

The government through their botched comes and lack of backbone have lost a significant minority imo and thank god for the vaccine as imo there is no other way out