Air Rifle

alan86

Hi all,

Thinking of getting an air rifle
Never had one before just wondering if anyone on here has experience with them and any advice before I make a purchase. The rifle will mostly be used for vermin .

Cheers,

Alan

Emmersonn

I have a Weihrauch HW97K in .22 FAC. Very accurate with the right pellets. Great fun at the moment when confined. If by vermin you mean nothing bigger than rabbits and crows (no rest) then at up to 60 mts then it is fine. Any distance further than this and in my opinion you are pushing it for a clean kill. New, this airgun will cost the bones of €500. It is single shot underlever and is a heavy rifle. PCPs are multishot but much more expensive with the additional cost of a compressor and/or air bottle. Pellets. depending on brand are from roughly €6.00 for 250.

alan86

Hi Emmersonn,

You are the second person I have talked to in as many days that has or had a Weihrauch HW97 and I was advised this would be a good rifle to start off with.
Yes with the rifle I wouldn't be shooting anything bigger than a rabbit.
I think starting off I will stay away from PCPs due to price and see how I get on with a springer first.

Cheers

extremetaz

Any of the Weihrauch rifles are outstanding and as a first rifle, that '97 (or the 77, 80 or 90) is very common choice - and they are an impeccable machine - but there's a caveat.

Gas-ram and springers can be tough to learn to shoot on as there's odd and disproportionate recoil on them for the power they're delivering. You also need to be very particular about your scope choices, and you can't use a bipod or rest directly if you want to get good results. You can rest your supporting hand on something certainly, but you'll definitely need to be supporting the rifle with your hand to do well with it.

If you're just looking to plink away cheaply then they're still and excellent option, but if you're hoping to learn to "shoot", then you'd give yourself a far easier time with a PCP (or, dare I say it, a 22LR). Of the non-specialist PCP's, the HW100K in .22 is the one to have. They're a lot more expensive to buy though although good deals do show up secondhand. Once you get into PCP's is starts being worthwhile looking at other brands like Daystate, Styer, Anschutz, Feinwerkbau, Walther... but that's getting into proper big league stuff at that stage.

alan86

Hi extremetaz,

Thanks you all the info. I have started considering going for a PCP. Would you pick up a decent secondhand PCP for around the €700?

skipking

yes you would get a decent one for that dont forget you will have to get a way of filling it .

alan86

How much would a tank for refilling set you back?

skipking

sorry for the late reply depends on size around 250 to 300 euro.

cinnelli

Hello Alan,
I have had a springer and changed to a BSA PCP. A fantastic air rifle. I help out a lot of farmers with vermin problems. I picked up a 3 litre cylinder (serviced) for €50, this will fill the rifle for 100’s of shots ( you can get the cylinder filled in a dive shop for €5 ), the rifle cost €750, I had my scope. I also picked up a cheap range finder which I think is crucial at longer shots once you have learned your hold over/ under and using mill dots for windage ( I have shot pigeons cleanly at 83 mts ).
As was mentioned earlier you have to find the right pellets for your particular rifle, mine is the H&N Hunter Extreme.
For shooting around farms you can’t go wrong with an air rifle. I take out the semi auto in the field!

extremetaz

Howdy Alan,

Apologies for the slow response.
I've seen HW100K's change hands for well under €700, but at about that price is far more common and I'd expect that to include the fill adapter.
7L dive tank can be had for about €150 readily enough.

The HW100 in KT .22, and T .177 have passed through my household. Both are cracking machines, but the shorter 'K' model, and the larger caliber, are the clear winners. The thumbhole stock I could live without (the 'T' in the model designation), but that's a point of personal preference.

We've also had the HW80 and '90 as well - and as stated above, both also crackin' rifles which I would have no reservation whatsoever in recommending to anyone who was already happy enough handling recoil and wasn't just starting out. They are great fun to shoot once you know what you're doing.

alan86

Hi lads thanks very much for all the info.i had firstly planned to get a springer but from reading up a bit more the PCPs sound like they are worth the extra bit of money they cost. I think it's time to start ringing around and seeing what my local rifle dealers have in stock.

Cheers,

Alan

extremetaz

For what it's worth - be aware that a lot of our PCP stock comes in from the UK where there are licencing distinctions depending on the muzzle energy. Over there if the rifle is below 11ft.lbs (IIRC) then it's licence exempt. Above that muzzle energy they refer to them as FAC models (FireArms Certificate). This is strictly a UK system but the term FAC and non-FAC rifles has become something of a colloquialism as a result. Over here you require a licence and must meet the security arrangements regardless of muzzle energy (sub-1J airsofts excluded of course for any pedants reading this).

The reason I bring this up is that the .22 at this muzzle energy has a very loopy trajectory which is definitely going to impede your success rate against targets at unconfirmed range. So given 'vermin' is the intended role, you will be best served by either buying an FAC variant or being prepared to retune a non-FAC one.

Now, in many cases the difference between the two just comes down to how the regulator is set (and any PCP worth having will have a regulator) and there's no actual difference between the rifles themselves - with the HW's however there can be, so again try to get an 'FAC' variant if you can.

22ft.lbs (30J) is pretty much the ceiling for practical use in a .22 as it drives a 14gr diabolo at ~850fps which is generally accepted to produce the best compromise between stability and trajectory for that round - and do use diabolo's if you're planning on reaching beyond ~25m. Points/tips, hollows and wadcutters all spread dramatically from that point onwards.

Also be realistic about what these rifles can achieve.

Against a paper target, I was able to one-hole with the .22KT at 30m all day long, and it would hold an inch at ~45m on a calm day. "Coldbore" (if you'll pardon the parlance) at unconfirmed range, on live quarry, with this loopy and aerodynamically disastrous round however, I was never confident after 40m and rarely even reached out that far - and I'd consider myself pretty handy. As always YMMV, but you'll hear stories about people taking maggies at 80m with these things and people will tell them like it's a given that it can be done. So get plenty of rounds onto paper and decide for yourself what you reckon your effective range is - then stick to it!

And remember this: a .22 diabolo has a BC in the region of 0.025. They will lose ~half their muzzle energy by 50m, and you don't start out with that much to begin with. So always be aware the that round doesn't just need to go where you want it to. It needs to get there with enough persuasion remaining to do the job.

J.R.

extremetaz wrote: »

For what it's worth - be aware that a lot of our PCP stock comes in from the UK where there are licencing distinctions depending on the muzzle energy. Over there if the rifle is below 11ft.lbs (IIRC) then it's licence exempt. Above that muzzle energy they refer to them as FAC models (FireArms Certificate). This is strictly a UK system but the term FAC and non-FAC rifles has become something of a colloquialism as a result. Over here you require a licence and must meet the security arrangements regardless of muzzle energy (sub-1J airsofts excluded of course for any pedants reading this).

The reason I bring this up is that the .22 at this muzzle energy has a very loopy trajectory which is definitely going to impede your success rate against targets at unconfirmed range. So given 'vermin' is the intended role, you will be best served by either buying an FAC variant or being prepared to retune a non-FAC one.

Now, in many cases the difference between the two just comes down to how the regulator is set (and any PCP worth having will have a regulator) and there's no actual difference between the rifles themselves - with the HW's however there can be, so again try to get an 'FAC' variant if you can.

22ft.lbs (30J) is pretty much the ceiling for practical use in a .22 as it drives a 14gr diabolo at ~850fps which is generally accepted to produce the best compromise between stability and trajectory for that round - and do use diabolo's if you're planning on reaching beyond ~25m. Points/tips, hollows and wadcutters all spread dramatically from that point onwards.

Also be realistic about what these rifles can achieve.

Against a paper target, I was able to one-hole with the .22KT at 30m all day long, and it would hold an inch at ~45m on a calm day. "Coldbore" (if you'll pardon the parlance) at unconfirmed range, on live quarry, with this loopy and aerodynamically disastrous round however, I was never confident after 40m and rarely even reached out that far - and I'd consider myself pretty handy. As always YMMV, but you'll hear stories about people taking maggies at 80m with these things and people will tell them like it's a given that it can be done. So get plenty of rounds onto paper and decide for yourself what you reckon your effective range is - then stick to it!

And remember this: a .22 diabolo has a BC in the region of 0.025. They will lose ~half their muzzle energy by 50m, and you don't start out with that much to begin with. So always be aware the that round doesn't just need to go where you want it to. It needs to get there with enough persuasion remaining to do the job.

excellent, informative post.

German pointer

I had a HW97k and it was as accurate as can be but I wasn't disappointed when I swapped it for the FAC version HW110 PCP in .177 cracking rifle. It gives about 50 shots at full power before topping up. I've done a crow at 63 yards and a woodie at 54 both dropped on the spot the only rabbit I got so far was at 25 but no doubt i will get more at further distances. I'm just waiting for the travel restrictions to lift. I've accounted for a lot of crows upwards of 250 this year alone, easily head shooting them out to 50 with no wind. I was tucked in level with them at distances of 20 to 50 yards, poor sods never even knew where the shots were coming from. Not every body-shot one drops on the spot but they don't tend to get far if they fly. This is the result of over penetration at the closer distances with the .177
My two bobs worth

alan86

Thanks very much for all the input lads I really appriciate it.
I'm living in north cork I have a couple of local rifle dealers I could deal with to get an air rifle but does anyone know of a dealer in this location that would stock a good number of air rifles?

German pointer

alan86 wrote: »

Thanks very much for all the input lads I really appriciate it.
I'm living in north cork I have a couple of local rifle dealers I could deal with to get an air rifle but does anyone know of a dealer in this location that would stock a good number of air rifles?

Irish shooting sports in Knocknagoshel has a few in stock and should be able to get you what you want if not in stock. I bought my HW 110 from him even though he didn’t stock them at the time.

alan86

Thanks german pointer I will give them a call.i rang a few places close to me but they dont seem to have much in stock

burtner

ballistech in wexford are now stocking FX airguns, serious but expensive equipment.

slipperyox

For someone who has had air rifles in the past.

I was always concerned about the complexity of a pcp, in terms of cost of repair.
Not for the faint hearted and not too many about experienced in it.

Many people get them "blueprinted" which means an expert gets rid of the rough edges from factory and they shoot as they were designed to.


If I was to ever get another, it would be a break barrel gas ram, with pump to adjust power.
Sweet spot of accuracy, safety, usefulness, price and reliability.

maestroamado

Is there a firearm license needed for air firearm?

slipperyox

maestroamado wrote: »

Is there a firearm license needed for air firearm?

Above 1 joule yes

A uk non fac air rifle is rated about 15 joules

So no lead firing air rifle will likely be below 1 joule

nophd08

slipperyox wrote: »

For someone who has had air rifles in the past.

I was always concerned about the complexity of a pcp, in terms of cost of repair.
Not for the faint hearted and not too many about experienced in it.

Many people get them "blueprinted" which means an expert gets rid of the rough edges from factory and they shoot as they were designed to.


If I was to ever get another, it would be a break barrel gas ram, with pump to adjust power.
Sweet spot of accuracy, safety, usefulness, price and reliability.

I have the Air Arms S510 for over 2 years, adjustable power up to 30ft lb and it has never missed a beat. Pcp's are streets ahead of any gas ram springer. Which air rifles have you owned?

slipperyox

nophd08 wrote: »

I have the Air Arms S510 for over 2 years, adjustable power up to 30ft lb and it has never missed a beat. Pcp's are streets ahead of any gas ram springer. Which air rifles have you owned?

How many have I owned?

sounds like a pissing contest, but anyway, lots.

No such thing as a gas ram springer...

Gas ram or spring.

Pcps streets ahead of a gas ram? probably
but not necessarily regards power or accuracy.
Or hauling scuba gear around or not.

pcp's are more accurate to novices.

mastering a forward recoiling rifle is an art

nophd08

slipperyox wrote: »

How many have I owned?

sounds like a pissing contest, but anyway, lots.

No such thing as a gas ram springer...

Gas ram or spring.

Pcps streets ahead of a gas ram? probably
but not necessarily regards power or accuracy.
Or hauling scuba gear around or not.

pcp's are more accurate to novices.

mastering a forward recoiling rifle is an art

If you read my post correctly,
I said "which" air rifles have you owned?
And sorry, yes my mistake, a typo not putting "or" between gas ram and springer.
If you need to haul scuba gear around then you are either a very poor shot or your rifle is leaking.
As for your "pi55ing" contest... Of you go, I'm out.

slipperyox

Didn't mean to annoy you, was just trying to help OP why I, don't think pcp's are worth the extra €€€

extremetaz

slipperyox wrote: »

pcp's are more accurate to novices.

In the context of this conversation this is the only point which matters.

Where the operator is well accustomed to managing heavy recoil in unsupported positions, then I could be convinced that a good under- or side-lever solution can run alongside a PCP in the right hands. I'd have less faith in a break barrel in that regard.