A/R TT....Round 2 - 1 mile TT, Saturday May 30th *** please read post #1 ***

healy1835

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Was going to suggest the 10x400. I've used it myself before but still fell short of my target race pace. With it not being a race it might be even trickier to predict. My experience anyway was the 10 x 400s but maybe add around a second per 400 on the day. So being able to do 75s for a 5 minute flat mile would become 76s and a 5:04 mile. Just my experience.

The 600 down to 200 sounds tougher to me due to the front loading. I'm going to try that one out anyway. Cheers.

Hmmmmmnnnnn. I did a 16x400 session off 45secs and averaged 75secs last August just before the Frank Duffy and also before Raheny last year and averaged 73secs. Don't really feel like doing a session like that at the moment though! I think I'll stick to my plan of just rocking up to wherever I end up deciding to actually do it that sat morning and running as fast a mile as possible. No sessions beforehand. Adds to the suspense

Itziger

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Was going to suggest the 10x400. I've used it myself before but still fell short of my target race pace. With it not being a race it might be even trickier to predict. My experience anyway was the 10 x 400s but maybe add around a second per 400 on the day. So being able to do 75s for a 5 minute flat mile would become 76s and a 5:04 mile. Just my experience.

The 600 down to 200 sounds tougher to me due to the front loading. I'm going to try that one out anyway. Cheers.

Lads, one thing I don't understand about those sessions. The 6,5,4,3,2 = 2,000mts whereas the 10x4...... That's a massive difference, no??

MrSkinny

IvoryTower wrote: »

The 10 x 400 session, once a week

Straight off the bat? No build up to it or slightly longer recoveries to start with?

Dubh Geannain

Itziger wrote: »

Lads, one thing I don't understand about those sessions. The 6,5,4,3,2 = 2,000mts whereas the 10x4...... That's a massive difference, no??

Personally I find 400 okay. Going beyond is when the pain starts for me. When I've done the 10x400s you get into a rhythm as the reps are the same.

So starting with 600 and then 500 looks tough to me. Plus you'll have covered 1500m after 3 reps as opposed to 1200m.

I'll tell you what. As I've never tried the 600 one I might try both over the next two weeks and report back

KSU

Itziger wrote: »

Lads, one thing I don't understand about those sessions. The 6,5,4,3,2 = 2,000mts whereas the 10x4...... That's a massive difference, no??

With the first one lactate tolerance and buffering is sent over the edge early on so simulates a race more.

With the second one despite being double the volume there is almost a seesaw motion with regards lactate bringing you back from the brink in the early reps before spilling over so takes more effort to elicit similar response.

Personally I wouldn't be mad on predictor workouts for this one ;

1) Time not on your side with regards recovery from such an effort prior to TT.

2) Lack of race specific work means that you are not really dialing in race legs it is just gonna shock the body as much as the race will

pconn062

I should add, I wouldn't be doing either of those two sessions before this upcoming time trial. They are sessions I have done after a specific build up to a peak race. I am doing a mile time trial in two weeks and I will do zero specific training for it as it is just a time trial and I feel I can run a decent mile off my base training. I would just train as normal and add some good quality 20-30 second strides at goal mile pace twice a week for the next three weeks.

Regarding the question about the volume of the session, yes the first one is only 2k in volume but I find it to be very race specific because, as KSU said by starting with the longer reps you build a lot of lactate quickly, simulating an actual race.

IvoryTower

MrSkinny wrote: »

Straight off the bat? No build up to it or slightly longer recoveries to start with?

Some people start with 90s recovery and you start with whatever you're capable of time wise so it will take a session to figure that out.

But it's so close i wouldn't overthink it. What Is it, 3 weeks? Do something fast to stretch the legs, be grand

Lazare

This is the sort of chat you want itt.

Great stuff guys. Lots to think about.

KSU

pconn062 wrote: »

I am doing a mile time trial in two weeks and I will do zero specific training for it as it is just a time trial and I feel I can run a decent mile off my base training. I would just train as normal and add some good quality 20-30 second strides at goal mile pace twice a week for the next three weeks.
.

Glad to see I am not the only one haha.

If anyone did want a light session for turnover one I have used in the past (more so as a taper session but could work well;

3 sets of 20,30,40 sec stride outs off 1 min recovery with 3-4 min jog between sets

Dubh Geannain

KSU wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't be mad on predictor workouts for this one ;

1) Time not on your side with regards recovery from such an effort prior to TT.

2) Lack of race specific work means that you are not really dialing in race legs it is just gonna shock the body as much as the race will

Obviously, I'm more invested in the mile than some of the longer distance runners. My regret was not getting out for another race a couple of weeks of running my 5:02.

How long of a recovery would you typically need? Do people benefit from running a series of races as opposed to one offs?

KSU

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Obviously, I'm more invested in the mile than some of the longer distance runners. My regret was not getting out for another race a couple of weeks of running my 5:02.

How long of a recovery would you typically need? Do people benefit from running a series of races as opposed to one offs?

Generally people do benefit from series of races (I know when I trained as a miler it usually took 2-3 races to get into the groove of things during the season and IIRC my last 1500 a few years back was the 3rd race in 14 days)

Actually recently saw argument raised that we under race in the modern era

https://twitter.com/fast8trackclub/status/1254290101829373953?s=20

In terms of recovery it would depend. If you are in heavy training or indeed not specifically training for that type of event it probably will require most recovery however many track athletes periodize there training so that base is done in the winte, the hard work is done then prior to track season started and then in season it is more about keeping things light and tipping along with races being the main stimulus, as such you are effectively recovering outside of races for the most part

This might be work a read. It is one of the few training books which lays out a full years training plan (specifically for those training for the mile)

https://img.runningwarehouse.com/pdf/middle_distance_guide.pdf

IvoryTower

Might be worth noting hes only 20 when he done that, I might die if I race 3 days in a row

Itziger

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Obviously, I'm more invested in the mile than some of the longer distance runners. My regret was not getting out for another race a couple of weeks of running my 5:02.

How long of a recovery would you typically need? Do people benefit from running a series of races as opposed to one offs?

I wouldn't know too much about shorter distances but I am sure that more racing after a good base and some weeks (8? 10?) sharpening of training would be the way to go. My own best 10k results came on the second weekend of races each time. I'd say a well trained miler could be doing at the very least a race per week. The body and the mind probably need two or three attempts to get pace and effort right.

IvoryTower

Dubh I would need a few races dotted throughout the summer with very little rest taken before or after, just a drop in mileage for the week and one less session. All building towards peaking in august, in for the long haul, it always pays off. When you finally taper you dont know yourself.

KSU

With AAI rules changing, tracks a acceptable venue?

Murph_D

KSU wrote: »

With AAI rules changing, tracks a acceptable venue?

I think it's already been established that a track is OK, L (I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong). What is the AI ruling? Would consider a track run myself if they are opening.

skyblue46

KSU wrote: »

With AAI rules changing, tracks a acceptable venue?

Murph_D wrote: »

I think it's already been established that a track is OK, L (I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong). What is the AI ruling? Would consider a track run myself if they are opening.

Not a problem lads...just run to the track markings not the distance on the watch. That applies whether the watch shows longer or shorter....and that the track isn't inside your privacy zone on Strava! :pac:

KSU

Murph_D wrote: »

I think it's already been established that a track is OK, L (I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong). What is the AI ruling? Would consider a track run myself if they are opening.

https://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/coronavirus-covid-19-update/

MY BAD

What kind of a warm up do milers/1500m runners do before a race?

IvoryTower

MY BAD wrote: »

What kind of a warm up do milers/1500m runners do before a race?

1-2 miles, dynamics, strides

MY BAD

IvoryTower wrote: »

1-2 miles, dynamics, strides

So the usual Thanks

Murph_D

MY BAD wrote: »

So the usual Thanks

I like to do more than the usual - get the HR properly up. Get a good layer of perspiration going. Let the body know what’s in store.

Lazare

A good layer of toxic perspiration.

Swashbuckler

Lazare wrote:

A good layer of toxic perspiration.

Yum

Laineyfrecks

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Yum

Ewwwwwww

eyrie

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Ewwwwwww

I heard he puts in his tea instead of milk :eek:

Laineyfrecks

eyrie wrote: »

I heard he puts in his tea instead of milk :eek:

I heard it's his kryptonite :eek:

Speedy44

Almost fell asleep at the wheel and missed this one :rolleyes:
If someone can add me in the M54 cat, and stick down 5:40 for the prediction .........................and just to clarify, is that a yes on using the track as long as we do the mile distance as marked out?

skyblue46

Speedy44 wrote: »

Almost fell asleep at the wheel and missed this one :rolleyes:
If someone can add me in the M50 cat, and stick down 5:40 for the prediction .........................and just to clarify, is that a yes on using the track as long as we do the mile distance as marked out?

It is a yes...:)

Swashbuckler

Laineyfrecks wrote:

I heard it's his kryptonite

Can't beat a nice pint bottle of toxic sweat on a sunny day.

skyblue46

I'm so glad we got rid of the repetitive posting of tables on the thread. It has really made space for top notch high brow chat :pac::pac:

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm so glad we got rid of the repetitive posting of tables on the thread. It had really made space for top notch chat :pac::pac:

Great idea that by you!!

Murph_D

OOnegative wrote: »

Great idea that by you!!

A lot of the chat is about the table.

skyblue46

Murph_D wrote: »

A lot of the chat is about the table.

I made my comment with tongue firmly in cheek.

Hannibal_Smith

Warm ups etc aside. I've been searching online for ways to approach this on the day and I'm still not sure.

Can some one give me a time of what you're you going to start out at? I can go back and look at your predicted time on the table and get an idea of what I should be doing.

I'm trying to think positive, but I think I might die :pac:

IvoryTower

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Warm ups etc aside. I've been searching online for ways to approach this on the day and I'm still not sure.

Can some one give me a time of what you're you going to start out at? I can go back and look at your predicted time on the table and get an idea of what I should be doing.

I'm trying to think positive, but I think I might die :pac:

Not sure if it's what you mean but I will try to even splits 4.50 and hope that a bit of wind and fitness I'm not aware of gives me the extra 2 seconds.

I ran 4.53 a few weeks ago and I ran even splits for the first 1k then just hung on for dear life. This time I'm going to mark 200m to go so I know when to kick if there is a kick left. If there isn't it will at least let me know not to give up, nearly there!

The thoughts to stop will be very real like in every race so just hang in there. It cuts sharper than the 5k pain but is over quicker!

Laineyfrecks

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Can't beat a nice pint bottle of toxic sweat on a sunny day.

I'll take your word for it

Laineyfrecks

IvoryTower wrote: »

Not sure if it's what you mean but I will try to even splits 4.50 and hope that a bit of wind and fitness I'm not aware of gives me the extra 2 seconds.

I ran 4.53 a few weeks ago and I ran even splits for the first 1k then just hung on for dear life. This time I'm going to mark 200m to go so I know when to kick if there is a kick left. If there isn't it will at least let me know not to give up, nearly there!

The thoughts to stop will be very real like in every race so just hang in there. It cuts sharper than the 5k pain but is over quicker!

And 5k pain is bad :eek:

Hannibal_Smith

IvoryTower wrote: »

Not sure if it's what you mean but I will try to even splits 4.50 and hope that a bit of wind and fitness I'm not aware of gives me the extra 2 seconds.

I ran 4.53 a few weeks ago and I ran even splits for the first 1k then just hung on for dear life. This time I'm going to mark 200m to go so I know when to kick if there is a kick left. If there isn't it will at least let me know not to give up, nearly there!

The thoughts to stop will be very real like in every race so just hang in there. It cuts sharper than the 5k pain but is over quicker!

Thanks, that's exactly what I mean, and what I feared in equal measures :pac:

It's over quicker...that's what I'll take with me. I'm going to try and plan a finish point so that I'll know where the end is and it might help.

IvoryTower

Interested to hear how pconn and others would run it

skyblue46

IvoryTower wrote: »

Interested to hear how pconn and others would run it

Half mile at 5k pace, half mile @ 800 pace....:pac:

adrian522

skyblue46 wrote: »

Half mile at 5k pace, half mile @ 800 pace....:pac:

So 804m @ 800m pace, got it.

I'd probably do half mile @ 800M pace and half mile walking.

skyblue46

adrian522 wrote: »

So 804m @ 800m pace, got it.

It'll be a flying start so that will gobble up the 4 metres :pac:

Murph_D

skyblue46 wrote: »

It'll be a flying start so that will gobble up the 4 metres :pac:

Are flying starts allowed?

skyblue46

Murph_D wrote: »

Are flying starts allowed?

No. I meant the flying start to my second half mile.

ThebitterLemon

Murph_D wrote: »

Are flying starts allowed?

Auld lads like you don’t need to concern themselves with things like flying starts...:)

TbL

DelDonut83

Hi,

M36, predicted time 7mins.

Thanks.

Murph_D

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Auld lads like you don’t need to concern themselves with things like flying starts...:)

TbL

True. Not worth the added risk!

IvoryTower

Murph_D wrote: »

True. Not worth the added risk!

It shows up as time moving anyway unfortunately, tried it

Lazare

It seems to my untrained and inexperienced eye that it's all about not killing yourself in the first 400.

Found it tough to get a feel for goal pace on the last session.

Especially on fresh legs. Would a pace alert be a help, a hindrance, frowned upon, immoral, cheating, some of above?