To use a chest strap or not ?

lulublue22 · 03-05-2020 12:42pm #1

Hi

I’ve been running on and off for 3 years or so - I enjoy running but find it difficult to maintain any consistency. Part of the problem is that I have very poor aerobic capacity due to the fact that I prob run all my runs too fast.
So I’ve decided to train by heart rate and slow down. I’m basing my mhr of 198 bpm on a 5k race. I’m finding it very difficult to keep my hr down around 145bpm. I’m using a garmin 235 and Im not sure how accurate it is ? It seems to bounce around a lot - yesterday mile 1 at over 12 min mikes was 150bpm ( this included running down the hill from home) mile 2 at 11:30 min miles was 140 bpm ( on the flat) The 235 had my max hr at 178 yesterday though I never saw that during the run. The constant bouncing around is driving me nuts and making running stressful. I’m wondering would a chest strap give me a more accurate picture ?

Tks

SeeMoreBut · 03-05-2020 12:44pm

HR built into watch is not reliable. Chest or arm ones are much better

Casey78 · 03-05-2020 2:23pm

I bought an arm band HR monitor from Wahoo.
Cant wear a chest strap at all.
The Wahoo and my Garmin 245 match almost identical on easy runs.
On faster interval type runs is where the Wahoo armband shines over the watch.
Make sure the watch is tight on your wrist and place it further up the arm than you usually would, like I said the optical on the watch will be accurate enough for easy runs but they struggle at higher paces.

lulublue22 · 03-05-2020 2:44pm

Tks Seemorebut and casey78.

Didn’t realise you could get an arm one. Have just bit the bullet and ordered a garmin dual hr strap from Amazon. Just have to hope it will not go awol like our last 2 orders. If nothing else it will make me realise I have to slow down more ðŸ€ª

The Muppet · 03-05-2020 6:20pm

Interesting topic. I've been back running by Heartrate for the last month and your post mirrors my own experience. I too use a garmin 235. Today I dug out my old garmin 220 and chest strap and I wore both on a 2 mile run.

I was surprise at how similar the readings were. I hit zones 2 3 and 4 and there was little to no difference between the chest strap and wrist monitor .

I will say I'm lacking fitness and slow at the moment so perhaps as said above slow pace is a factor in the similar readings .

lulublue22 · 03-05-2020 6:53pm

The Muppet wrote: »

Interesting topic. I've been back running by Heartrate for the last month and your post mirrors my own experience. I too use a garmin 235. Today I dug out my old garmin 220 and chest strap and I wore both on a 2 mile run.

I was surprise at how similar the readings were. I hit zones 2 3 and 4 and there was little to no difference between the chest strap and wrist monitor .

I will say I'm lacking fitness and slow at the moment so perhaps as said above slow pace is a factor in the similar readings .

It’s frustrating isn’t it. I’m not really expecting there to be a substantial difference between the two but I’d rather know for certain. I lack consistency which doesn’t help but in the 3 years I’ve been running I’ve never reached a level of being in zone 1 which is frustrating. I’m running at around 12 - 12:30 min/ miles at the moment and I’m not sure if I can slow down any more tbh. It feels really slow as is ðŸ˜

The Muppet · 03-05-2020 7:14pm

That exactly the pace I'm running at too. I haven't ran much in the last year so it will take some time to improve on that pace . It is frustrating but I'm going to stick with it for a few months .

lulublue22 · 03-05-2020 7:38pm

The Muppet wrote: »

That exactly the pace I'm running at too. I haven't ran much in the last year so it will take some time to improve on that pace . It is frustrating but I'm going to stick with it for a few months .

That’s Gas ! I’m only 3 weeks in so will have to stick with it. Trying to run faster hasn’t really worked over the last few years so hopefully slowing down will.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 04-05-2020 3:25pm

The Muppet wrote: »

Interesting topic. I've been back running by Heartrate for the last month and your post mirrors my own experience. I too use a garmin 235. Today I dug out my old garmin 220 and chest strap and I wore both on a 2 mile run.

I was surprise at how similar the readings were. I hit zones 2 3 and 4 and there was little to no difference between the chest strap and wrist monitor .

I will say I'm lacking fitness and slow at the moment so perhaps as said above slow pace is a factor in the similar readings .

I'm more or less the same.

When I changed from a Polar M300 (with the chest strap) to the Garmin 735 is done comparison tests and both were more or less the same every time.

Last year I got hypertension (dunno how) and went on meds, but I bought an Omron HR monitor, the same my doctor uses and it gives the same measure's as my 735 with its wrist monitor.

I've 100% confidence in my Garmin's HR readings.

IvoryTower · 05-05-2020 11:47am

There's a hr thread you should read that as well. I'm in a similar boat, my easy runs are supposed to be below 135 according to my garmin(using 195 max), its very hard to keep it below that, I have to run about 10 min miles and I'm in sub 5 min mile shape so it's baffling that it's so bad. I'm going to get it tested professionally when the restrictions are lifted.

I use the 235 + chest strap

lulublue22 · 11-05-2020 10:46am

8/20 Running arrived today. Is it bad that I instantly hated the book ? it looks like it will fall apart in a strong wind. I like my books sturdy so I can get plenty of use out of them. Quality is atrocious! Hopefully content will keep me happy 😆

py · 11-05-2020 11:06am

lulublue22 wrote: »

8/20 Running arrived today. Is it bad that I instantly hated the book ? it looks like it will fall apart in a strong wind. I like my books sturdy so I can get plenty of use out of them. Quality is atrocious! Hopefully content will keep me happy &#55357;&#56838;

I'd the exact same experience a few weeks back after receiving it from Amazon. Back cover was torn so I got on to them about it and they refunded me. Still to read it, working my way through The Maffetone Method first.

Murph_D · 11-05-2020 1:14pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

8/20 Running arrived today. Is it bad that I instantly hated the book ? it looks like it will fall apart in a strong wind. I like my books sturdy so I can get plenty of use out of them. Quality is atrocious! Hopefully content will keep me happy &#55357;&#56838;

Agree with this - very poor paper quality. That's one reason the book is so cheap, I suppose, but would be nice to have option to buy a more durable version. However it's still a very good book.

lulublue22 · 12-05-2020 10:26am

I’m enjoying this so far - chest strap came this am so I’m trying to talk myself into doing the 30 min TT to check LHR should be fun

I haven’t heard of the Maffetone Method might google it later but I’m afraid of confusing myself further ðŸ˜

Ivorytower - thanks for the heads up re the heart rate thread. Some interesting points will have to read over it again in a few weeks to see what I’ve missed / misunderstood.

lulublue22 · 16-05-2020 3:48pm

Just a quick follow up - Im loving the chest strap. I did a 30 min TT as according to 80/20 and found my LTHR. I now have a nice range to stay within and better still the chest strap has eliminated the off the wall bouncing around. My heart rate readings are much more consistent and Im spending less time glued to the watch trying to get hr within range and more time enjoying my run. happy days ðŸ˜

skyblue46 · 16-05-2020 8:25pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

Just a quick follow up - Im loving the chest strap. I did a 30 min TT as according to 80/20 and found my LTHR. I now have a nice range to stay within and better still the chest strap has eliminated the off the wall bouncing around. My heart rate readings are much more consistent and Im spending less time glued to the watch trying to get hr within range and more time enjoying my run. happy days ðŸ˜

When did you do the TT? Was it your run on the 14th?

lulublue22 · 16-05-2020 9:17pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

When did you do the TT? Was it your run on the 14th?

It was on the 12th - 10 min warm up 30 min run as fast as I could. Took the average hr for the last 20 mins. Based zones off of that.

skyblue46 · 16-05-2020 9:21pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

It was on the 12th - 10 min warm up 30 min run as fast as I could. Took the average hr for the last 20 mins. Based zones off of that.

Ok....well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but those HR readings are wrong. Make sure you have a nice tension and the strap and maybe wet the contacts a little just as you put it on. There's no point in setting up zones until you have accurate readings.

lulublue22 · 16-05-2020 9:30pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Ok....well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but those HR readings are wrong. Make sure you have a nice tension and the strap and maybe wet the contacts a little just as you put it on. There's no point in setting up zones until you have accurate readings.

How can you tell they are wrong ?

skyblue46 · 16-05-2020 9:34pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

How can you tell they are wrong ?

The graphs which show the HR readings are simply too uniform.... I've seen readings like that before. Your last 2 runs show a rising line from beginning to end.

lulublue22 · 16-05-2020 9:49pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

The graphs which show the HR readings are simply too uniform.... I've seen readings like that before. Your last 2 runs show a rising line from beginning to end.

I’ve only one run since the TT. On garmin I can see a clear rise. Either way I won’t be doing another one for 6 - 8 weeks ðŸ˜ Thanks for the feedback.

skyblue46 · 16-05-2020 9:53pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’ve only one run since the TT. On garmin I can see a clear rise. Either way I won’t be doing another one for 6 - 8 weeks ðŸ˜ Thanks for the feedback.

I meant the two runs including the TT. Anyway I'm only trying to help....

lulublue22 · 16-05-2020 10:03pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

I meant the two runs including the TT. Anyway I'm only trying to help....

I know I appreciate feedback and wasn’t being sarky - but I don’t want to face into another TT again so soon and had already decided to do another one in 6 weeks or so. Im enjoying running again and happy enough to focus on building up the miles till I do the next one .

skyblue46 · 16-05-2020 10:06pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

I know I appreciate feedback and wasn’t being sarky - but I don’t want to face into another TT again so soon and had already decided to do another one in 6 weeks or so. Im enjoying running again and happy enough to focus on building up the miles till I do the next one .

Oh I wasn't suggesting another TT. Just keep an eye on the graph on Strava or Connect...it should be pretty uneven not a straight line, even if the straight line is rising.

Lazare · 17-05-2020 12:30pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

It was on the 12th - 10 min warm up 30 min run as fast as I could. Took the average hr for the last 20 mins. Based zones off of that.

Curious about this. Are you saying this method gave you a HR @ lactate threshold?

How accurate do you think it is?

I ask because I base all my training around my LT heart rate, got an accurate reading of it via a clinical test in Feb. Would be interested in testing it again towards the end of the summer to see if I need to make any adjustments.

lulublue22 · 17-05-2020 1:11pm

Lazare wrote: »

Curious about this. Are you saying this method gave you a HR @ lactate threshold?

How accurate do you think it is?

I ask because I base all my training around my LT heart rate, got an accurate reading of it via a clinical test in Feb. Would be interested in testing it again towards the end of the summer to see if I need to make any adjustments.

Its based off 80/ 20 by Matt Fitzgerald. In his book he recommends 3 options - percieved effort , talk test or 30 min TT.
I went with the TT as it seemed the most reliable to me. In the book he recommends warm up and then running as fast as you can maintain for 30 mins ( keeping each 10 mins similar pace as in not blowing up in the first ten mins) and taking your average HR during the last 10 mins as your LTHR. His on line platform training peaks has you take the average HR from the last 20 mins. Im not sure why they are slightly different. There is a calculator on training peaks which allows you to calculate your HR zones based off your LTHR.
I can see a difference already. Im back enjoying running again and Im happy enough to stick with HR training now more so than before I tried the TT.
re accuracy - he does say that it is subject to the conditions on the day - weather , how well you’ve slept etc etc . and that it will need to be repeated as you gain fitness.
However In my opinion there will always be questions around methods / application / interpretation of methods etc.
case in point - a poster pointed out that the chest strap wasnt accurate during the TT as strava heart rate graph is too uniform. A valid point. Yet when I look at the same heart rate graph in connect and runalyse there are clear peaks and troughs while all three follow the same basic trajectory. So question is was the chest strap not accurate or is it how strava is presenting the graph ?

I will say that I’m not chasing times . I’m building up miles slowly to hopefully gain consistency with my running and to that end I’m happy with 80/20 HR zones.

skyblue46 · 17-05-2020 1:17pm

Yeah, today's looks like it should. Is that generally how the other two looked on Connect and Runalyze?

Casey78 · 17-05-2020 1:20pm

Lazare wrote: »

Curious about this. Are you saying this method gave you a HR @ lactate threshold?

How accurate do you think it is?

I ask because I base all my training around my LT heart rate, got an accurate reading of it via a clinical test in Feb. Would be interested in testing it again towards the end of the summer to see if I need to make any adjustments.

This is a good article on it.
Yes it's for triathletes but the same principles apply.

https://beginnertriathlete.com/mobile/Article.html?articleId=633

Lazare · 17-05-2020 1:23pm

I can understand how the TT may give you a max HR, but can't understand how it can give you a LT HR.

I know my LT HR to be 145bpm, well it was in Feb, may be a couple of beats away from that now, but if I ran 30 min flat out today the average HR for the final 20 mins or so would be in the 170s. My max is 178.

Lazare · 17-05-2020 1:27pm

Casey78 wrote: »

This is a good article on it.
Yes it's for triathletes but the same principles apply.

https://beginnertriathlete.com/mobile/Article.html?articleId=633

After a 15 minute warm-up of easy running, finish with a few quick 20 seconds bursts to get your heart rate in the correct training zone.

The 30 minute TT begins.
At 10 minutes into the test, hit the 'Lap' button on your heart rate monitor, to get the average heart rate over the final 20 minutes of the test.
The average for the final 20 minutes is your Lactate Threshold or LT.
You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had.

I still can't understand how that can give you your LT rate.

Casey78 · 17-05-2020 2:07pm

Lazare wrote: »

I can understand how the TT may give you a max HR, but can't understand how it can give you a LT HR.

I know my LT HR to be 145bpm, well it was in Feb, may be a couple of beats away from that now, but if I ran 30 min flat out today the average HR for the final 20 mins or so would be in the 170s. My max is 178.

If your HR average for 20 mins was in the 170s and your Max HR is only 178 then would that not mean you would be in Zone 5 for nearly all the 20mins?. Didn't think that would be possible.
From anything I read you shouldn't be able last more than a few mins in Zone 5 if you are truly in Zone 5.

To use a chest strap or not ?

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