Enterprise: What idiots were running the show?

Inviere

AllForIt wrote: »

Enterprise is the only ST series I never watched. Iirc what put me off it was the female Vulcan's plastic surgery looking face and the ship bridge which seemed so claustrophobic, not much bigger than a broom cupboard. I didn't like the theme tune either, a bit Texan band like.

If someone can confirm it's better than Disco I'd consider giving it another try!

It's infinitely more watchable than the Michael Burnham show, give it a go, you might be surprised.

TheValeyard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Blame DS9 for that one. Trials and Tribble-ations made it canon that there were official times of ridgeless Klingons

Yeah but Enterprise made sense of that scene

AllForIt

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

A million times better

Inviere wrote: »

It's infinitely more watchable than the Michael Burnham show, give it a go, you might be surprised.

Cheers guys I'll give it a go. Seems it takes a while to get going so I'll persevere with it this time.

Inviere

AllForIt wrote: »

Cheers guys I'll give it a go. Seems it takes a while to get going so I'll persevere with it this time.

Some of the best tv shows to date have taken a while to get going. TNG, DS9, SG1, and so forth....obviously Enterprise isn't at their level, but it IS far better than the level of internet whinging makes it out to be. Start it, stick with it, don't skip any episode, & before long you'll be stuck into it.

pixelburp

Fair be warned AllForIt, seasons 1 and 2 of Enterprise are just bad, no caveats. Sci-fi often starts rough yes, but usually you'll see kernels of ideas or plots taking shape (eh Babylon 5), so even by that metric Enterprise flopped its first attempts. Season 1 was god-awful flailing about. Season 3 was much better, while Season 4 being the strongest - it was also the most fan service filled, being both a good and bad thing in the end.

beauf

Enterprise is a simpler show. Simplier stories more similar to the TOS or TNG. I think I watched it about a year or so after it came out, which is a long time ago. I like it then. People like more convoluted storylines these days so maybe it won't appeal to modern audience the same way.

That said I slogged my way through discovery and finally had enough and quit watching it.

AllForIt

beauf wrote: »

That said I slogged my way through discovery and finally had enough and quit watching it.

The reason I *think* I will quit with it by end of the current season, 1 to go currently, is because I know the personal build up to will just end in disappointment. So I don't see the point in getting excited about Disco S4 when I know that excitement is unfounded and going to waste.

Banana Republic 1

pixelburp wrote: »

Fair be warned AllForIt, seasons 1 and 2 of Enterprise are
just bad, no caveats. Sci-fi often starts rough yes, but usually you'll see kernels of ideas or plots taking shape (eh Babylon 5), so even by that metric Enterprise flopped its first attempts. Season 1 was god-awful flailing about. Season 3 was much better, while Season 4 being the strongest - it was also the most fan service filled, being both a good and bad thing in the end.

All seasons of discovery are garbage on the other hand.

pixelburp

beauf wrote: »

Enterprise is a simpler show. Simplier stories more similar to the TOS or TNG. I think I watched it about a year or so after it came out, which is a long time ago. I like it then. People like more convoluted storylines these days so maybe it won't appeal to modern audience the same way.

That said I slogged my way through discovery and finally had enough and quit watching it.

Naw, didn't watch it myself with modern sensibilities engaged, so think that's glib to say modern audiences can't deal with it; Enterprise was simply a muck show helmed by a producer long past a sell by date. Not without reason its strongest season came when a new producer took over but Season 1 in particular was bloody awful. Bad stories with threadbare characters, the stall set out terribly by that "decontamination scene" in the pilot and the obvious wankbait casting.

beauf

pixelburp wrote: »

Naw, didn't watch it myself with modern sensibilities engaged, so think that's glib to say modern audiences can't deal with it; Enterprise was simply a muck show helmed by a producer long past a sell by date. Not without reason its strongest season came when a new producer took over but Season 1 in particular was bloody awful. Bad stories with threadbare characters, the stall set out terribly by that "decontamination scene" in the pilot and the obvious wankbait casting.

In fairness there's been a string of eye candy in all Star Trek's, movies and TV series. Least in Discovery despite their use of leather etc. Remember 7 of 9 etc. There was hardly a great depth to the many of the characters in Star Trek. They pretty much all have one super power. Some moral, ethical or cultural dilemma solved by enlightened thinking. Or just whatever mood Janeway is in.

Banana Republic 1

pixelburp wrote: »

Naw, didn't watch it myself with modern sensibilities engaged, so think that's glib to say modern audiences can't deal with it; Enterprise was simply a muck show helmed by a producer long past a sell by date. Not without reason its strongest season came when a new producer took over but Season 1 in particular was bloody awful. Bad stories with threadbare characters, the stall set out terribly by that "decontamination scene" in the pilot and the obvious wankbait casting.

Threadbare characters, bad stories, 25 gormless producers, that’s discovery.

De Bhál

pixelburp wrote: »

Naw, didn't watch it myself with modern sensibilities engaged, so think that's glib to say modern audiences can't deal with it; Enterprise was simply a muck show helmed by a producer long past a sell by date. Not without reason its strongest season came when a new producer took over but Season 1 in particular was bloody awful. Bad stories with threadbare characters, the stall set out terribly by that "decontamination scene" in the pilot and the obvious wankbait casting.

And the theme song, don't forget that travesty. Straight from the get go I was worried.

It was a better better show than Discovery though, imo. I would give Enterprise a rewatch, Discovery...never.

Stark

I've grown to somewhat like the theme song (at least the pre-jazzy version from the first two seasons). Especially the visuals with all the precursor ships leading up to the NX-01.

I think what annoyed me about it the first time round was it was a part of the whole "trying to be Star Trek for people who don't like Star Trek" thing they were going for at the time. They even dropped "Star Trek" from the name when it first aired, just going with "Enterprise".

Inviere

Stark wrote: »

I've grown to somewhat like the theme song (at least the pre-jazzy version from the first two seasons). Especially the visuals with all the precursor ships leading up to the NX-01.

I think what annoyed me about it the first time round was it was a part of the whole "trying to be Star Trek for people who don't like Star Trek" thing they were going for at the time. They even dropped "Star Trek" from the name when it first aired, just going with "Enterprise".

Largely agreed. The song isn't to everyone's liking, but I'm quite fond of the raspy vocals in it (was written by or for Rod Stewart iirc? The master of rasp!). The 'remix' version of it was a huge step back, but hey, it's a few seconds of music before the show starts....

AutoTuning

Singing theme tune... on Star Trek ... I think that sums it up.

It’s like Dawson’s Creek did Trek production.

Who thought that was a good idea? Did they have the producers of Home & Away as consultants?!

Discovery, for all its flaws, at least looks & sounds like sci-fi.

Inviere

AutoTuning wrote: »

Discovery, for all its flaws, at least looks & sounds like sci-fi.

Yeah the piercing lens flares, rooms so dark you can't see whats in them, toy ray gun laser sounds....all the hall marks of a modern great.

pixelburp

beauf wrote: »

In fairness there's been a string of eye candy in all Star Trek's, movies and TV series. Least in Discovery despite their use of leather etc. Remember 7 of 9 etc. There was hardly a great depth to the many of the characters in Star Trek. They pretty much all have one super power. Some moral, ethical or cultural dilemma solved by enlightened thinking. Or just whatever mood Janeway is in.

Curious what eye candy was in the Trek movies, unless you're talking about Khan / Ricardo Montalbán's glorious chest Only thing I can think of is a brief moment in Into Darkness when Carol Marcus strips to her undies. Beyond that I can't say the OG movies ever strayed into obvious pandering to the sexually repressed

I don't agree on the characters reduction though: Trek's best shows had a cast of characters you could at least describe a sketch of their persona; I'm on record as being very down on TNG's secondary cast but I could still tell you who LeForge or Crusher was and their generally aspects. Enterprise's cast barely had enough characterisation to go around. Ensign Mayweather possibly being the most egregious - even Harry Kim got more to work with than the latterday crewmember.

beauf

I'm not sure why you want to compare the movies with one series. But across the franchise it has always had eye caddy, 7 of 9 outfits for one. Carol Marcus is another jarring moment.

I'm sure if you google it you will find a galleries of babes across the decades.

pixelburp

beauf wrote: »

I'm not sure why you want to compare the movies with one series. But across the franchise it has always had eye caddy, 7 of 9 outfits for one. Carol Marcus is another jarring moment.

I'm sure if you google it you will find a galleries of babes across the decades.

You mentioned the movies, I was just wondering why you brought them up as I'd have said they generally shied away from pandering. I'm not pretending there has never been eye-candy - 7of9 is clearly there as a prototype to Enterprise - there's just a big creative difference between a generic romantic interest for the sake of an episode's plot, and a deliberate, quite cynical "please **** now" character like Enterprise's T'Pol; a decision made very obvious by that decontamination scene (to be fair, this room played a part throughout a bunch of episodes but it was borderline softcore beyond anything else Trek tended towards). Plenty of eye candy for sure, but as a for instance, it was rare TNG was overtly sexual either. Even the (in)famous Risa often came off curiously inert.

Banana Republic 1

pixelburp wrote: »

You mentioned the movies, I was just wondering why you brought them up as I'd have said they generally shied away from pandering. I'm not pretending there has never been eye-candy - 7of9 is clearly there as a prototype to Enterprise - there's just a big creative difference between a generic romantic interest for the sake of an episode's plot, and a deliberate, quite cynical "please **** now" character like Enterprise's T'Pol; a decision made very obvious by that decontamination scene (to be fair, this room played a part throughout a bunch of episodes but it was borderline softcore beyond anything else Trek tended towards). Plenty of eye candy for sure, but as a for instance, it was rare TNG was overtly sexual either. Even the (in)famous Risa often came off curiously inert.

To me risa always seemed like whore island.T pol to me seemed to have and eating disorder. The where into nipples on enterprise. Didn’t Data have a donkey dick or at least that was what was established after the Tasha yar incident

beauf

pixelburp wrote: »

You mentioned the movies, I was just wondering why you brought them up as I'd have said they generally shied away from pandering. I'm not pretending there has never been eye-candy - 7of9 is clearly there as a prototype to Enterprise - there's just a big creative difference between a generic romantic interest for the sake of an episode's plot, and a deliberate, quite cynical "please **** now" character like Enterprise's T'Pol; a decision made very obvious by that decontamination scene (to be fair, this room played a part throughout a bunch of episodes but it was borderline softcore beyond anything else Trek tended towards). Plenty of eye candy for sure, but as a for instance, it was rare TNG was overtly sexual either. Even the (in)famous Risa often came off curiously inert.

I would say T'Pol character is extremely similar to 7 of 9.

AutoTuning

Every Star Trek series has an emotionally stunted character, except Discovery where even the computers have a good cry and speak in whispery tones every so often.

beauf

AutoTuning wrote: »

Every Star Trek series has an emotionally stunted character, except Discovery where even the computers have a good cry and speak in whispery tones every so often.

Seemed apt.

https://imgur.com/gallery/HVZnkX0

Sleepy

Theme tune aside, I have to say, I liked Enterprise when I finally got around to watching it a couple of years back. The intro visuals were actually really good imo, just mute the caterwalling redneck theme and give the show the time it needs to grow. By the third season, when it starts to make proper use of arc story-telling rather than the earlier "adventure of the week" format, it really gets good imo.

AutoTuning

Just dub the theme tune over with this. I find it really adds to it and is almost less jarring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD22a4APsCg

_Kaiser_

pixelburp wrote: »

Fair be warned AllForIt, seasons 1 and 2 of Enterprise are just bad, no caveats. Sci-fi often starts rough yes, but usually you'll see kernels of ideas or plots taking shape (eh Babylon 5), so even by that metric Enterprise flopped its first attempts. Season 1 was god-awful flailing about. Season 3 was much better, while Season 4 being the strongest - it was also the most fan service filled, being both a good and bad thing in the end.

Ah I dunno. I would have agreed with your assessment on S1 & S2 originally but having rewatched it in recent weeks here there's some decent episodes in there too. Yes, there's a lot of duds but I skipped less than I watched.

S3 (as I said above) has a few poor/filler ones early on, but builds solidly from about halfway through till the end.

S4 is a step up. I didn't actually mind the Space Nazis as it wrapped up the TCW in a way that was obviously meant to remove that shackle from the show but still in a way that made sense. They did the same with the Vulcan animosity theme later on in the season, and I've just watched the first of the Terra Prime 2-parter and am finding that I really wish the show and it's ongoing threads had been allowed to go on.

I'll skip the god-awful finalé though. THat was an insult to the show, actors and fans all-round.

_Kaiser_

beauf wrote: »

Enterprise is a simpler show. Simplier stories more similar to the TOS or TNG. I think I watched it about a year or so after it came out, which is a long time ago. I like it then. People like more convoluted storylines these days so maybe it won't appeal to modern audience the same way.

That said I slogged my way through discovery and finally had enough and quit watching it.

Spot on.. and I likewise stopped watching Discovery after S2 but from what I've read I haven't missed anything! Picard I stuck with for the season but I likewise won't be going back.

Enterprise - even as the weakest of the "original" shows - is still better than either of those newer efforts.

Lower Decks however, was a great surprise after a ropey start. That one I am actually looking forward to!

AutoTuning

Honestly thought Picard was a very weak show. I like Picard the character from TNG and Patrick Stewart but it’s just not a great show. It has a very Disney vibe to it.

It risks actually damaging the legacy of the character.

Evade

pixelburp wrote: »

Curious what eye candy was in the Trek movies

Kim Cattrall exists. Had Leonard Nimoy not been such a stickler we would have seen some NSFW pictures set on the bridge of the Enterprise.

Banana Republic 1

pixelburp wrote: »

Curious what eye candy was in the Trek movies, unless you're talking about Khan / Ricardo Montalbán's glorious chest

There was a rumour that Kurtzmann wants to cast Dev Pattel as Khan