Don't wear gloves shopping or out and about - HSE infection control experts warn

endofrainbow

I think I'm more concerned about her being referred to as the 'check out GIRL'....

Turtwig

Wibbs wrote: »

He's right about gloves to a large degree, but the same Cormican also stated with great confidence in early March that asymptomatic spread from a covid contact you were living with was of very low risk and you should go about your life as normally as possible nearly a month after the WHO flagged it as an infection route and both medical journals and mainstream media had reported specific cases. If that yahoo told me the sky was blue I'd look out a window to confirm.

This.
What I didn't like about it was he answered it in a very technical PR way. He actually didn't state anything incorrect. The risk was very low but that was because the individuals chance of coming into contact with a covid carrier was very low.

It was obvious that he was trying to reassure people but by conflating the two he did very much signal false information to the public. Even if it was technically correct. It just didn't sit comfortable with me.

SCOOP 64

i have a box of 100 disposal surgical gloves in the car which i have always used to go shopping, new pair every time i get out of the car to go in anywhere, now on the news it saids best not to ware them at all just hand washing will do ,so i have been doing it wrong all time:pac:

odyssey06

Turtwig wrote: »

This.
What I didn't like about it was he answered it in a very technical PR way. He actually didn't state anything incorrect. The risk was very low but that was because the individuals chance of coming into contact with a covid carrier was very low.
It was obvious that he was trying to reassure people but by conflating the two he did very much signal false information to the public. Even if it was technically correct. It just didn't sit comfortable with me.

Was it even correct at the time? Dubious.
Community transmisison had already started to occur at that point.

drunkmonkey

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

i have a box of 100 disposal surgical gloves in the car which i have always used to go shopping, new pair every time i get out of the car to go in anywhere, now on the news it saids best not to ware them at all just hand washing will do ,so i have been doing it wrong all time:pac:

Yea pretty much no need to do what you've been doing. I've some hand santiser spray in the drinks holder of the car. Give it a squirt before I go in as don't want to touch the ones in a store, when I get back in, I clean them again, rub the door handle where I closed it and once around the steering wheel and off I go.

What's really bugging me is if I buy a can or something the person wearing gloves usually grabs the can by the top where my lips will be going so have to sanatize that as well.
Got a can there earlier, girl was cleaning with her gloves, made one guy a roll with the gloves then came served me with them. She's kinda cute so I let it slide but gave it a good dousing with sanatizer before drinking it.
Should be a whistleblower line for breaches of cop on.

riffmongous

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Repeatedly washing your hands with disinfectant can be bad for the skin.

Exactly, it'll save your skin a lot of stress and allow you to sanitise more frequently if you wear them and actually just act like you weren't and follow all the usual guidelines... but yeah, I am sure the vast majority of people using them aren't doing this

Turtwig

odyssey06 wrote: »

Was it even correct at the time? Dubious.
Community transmisison had already started to occur at that point.

It had but the risk to any random person based on all the best information available to them at the time was low. It may have been higher than they originally thought but that's another matter.

Feisar

I’ve started wearing gloves going to do the shopping:

Wash hands
Drive to supermarket
Gloves on
Do shopping - absolutely no phone/face touching
Dump gloves on exiting
Drive home
Wash hands

I don’t see how gloving up isn’t a help.

drunkmonkey

Feisar wrote: »

I’ve started wearing gloves going to do the shopping:

Wash hands
Drive to supermarket
Gloves on
Do shopping - absolutely no phone/face touching
Dump gloves on exiting
Drive home
Wash hands

I don’t see how gloving up isn’t a help.

So your not washing your hands or sanatizing them after taking off your gloves and going straight to the car, that's a paddlin. You've broke one of the golden rules.

topmanamillion

Dymo wrote: »

Because the virus can lodge on handles of trolleys, handrails or steel. If a person is wearing rubber gloves that creates a barrier that stops the virus can getting in contact with your skin.

Covid can't pass transdermially, if it could we'd all be cocooning and housebound getting our supplies air dropped once a month.
This sort of misinformation is why gloves and masks are absolutely pointless in the general population.

If the hands touch the mouthpiece of a mask it's contaminated and useless. If the mask doesn't seal to the bridge of the nose and around the face, it's nothing more than a wearable tissue and offers zero protection to the wearer.
If the mask becomes damp, it's useless for the wearer and people they come into contact with.

Even with mass advertising and education, the fact is there aren't enough masks for everyone in the country to use and dispose of them when they should.

There's a reason there's no uniform opinion on masks and gloves from national health authorities around the world. Some are willing to go down the "ah sure it's no harm wearing it if ye want" road others don't want to bullsh1t people.

Andrew00

Gloves don't work. Just wipe ur hands with anti bacterial wipes or gel when you get in the car.

In shops the staff could have the same pair of gloves on for over an hour

Wibbs

Turtwig wrote: »

This.
What I didn't like about it was he answered it in a very technical PR way. He actually didn't state anything incorrect. The risk was very low but that was because the individuals chance of coming into contact with a covid carrier was very low.

It was obvious that he was trying to reassure people but by conflating the two he did very much signal false information to the public. Even if it was technically correct. It just didn't sit comfortable with me.

Actually T if you check out the video he directly mentions living with a known covid contact and that it's low risk and they're not shedding enough virus until they start showing symptoms like and I jest not a "runny nose and sore throat". Now if he'd said this in January fair enough, we're learning about this pox on a near daily basis, but he was coming out with that howler in March, a month after the WHO warned about the risks and three months after sore throat and runny nose was known to be down the list of symptoms for this dose. That's our top "expert". Jesus. Then again another one was saying t'is only grand to visit the elderly in old folks homes not too long ago after we all saw the devastation in Italy as far as the elderly were concerned and where the first confirmed case of our own epidemic was found in such a home. That orange gobsh1te Trump ignores his experts, too often we would have been better served by following his lead, well with actual common sense attached.

Anyone that wears gloves must subconsciously (or consciously) think that the virus is absorbed through the skin. It is literally the only reason that they would be of any use. No glove wearer here can come up with a reason as to why wearing gloves are better than washing your hands with sanitiser and / or soap. In fact my understanding is that the virus lasts longer on rubber than on skin. Wearing gloves is just ridiculous, and given that most people don’t know how to wear them properly (ie. briefly and dispose of them) I would steer clear of anyone wearing gloves

Wibbs

topmanamillion wrote: »

Covid can't pass transdermially, if it could we'd all be cocooning and housebound getting our supplies air dropped once a month.
This sort of misinformation is why gloves and masks are absolutely pointless in the general population.

If the hands touch the mouthpiece of a mask it's contaminated and useless. If the mask doesn't seal to the bridge of the nose and around the face, it's nothing more than a wearable tissue and offers zero protection to the wearer.
If the mask becomes damp, it's useless for the wearer and people they come into contact with.

Even with mass advertising and education, the fact is there aren't enough masks for everyone in the country to use and dispose of them when they should.

There's a reason there's no uniform opinion on masks and gloves from national health authorities around the world. Some are willing to go down the "ah sure it's no harm wearing it if ye want" road others don't want to bullsh1t people.

No, again you completely miss the actual point about masks in an indoor shared public space. It's not about protection for the wearer, it is about protection from the wearer to another. Even a wet mask on someone's face reduces the spread of droplets from them to others.

This graphic illustrates this more clearly.



The anti mask thing has been politically led from a point of view of earlier supply issues of PPE to frontline health workers, it has little to do with the science and experiences of nations who brought them in, all of whom have lower cases than us and significantly lower deaths. And many if not most nations who also were against their use in the community are now rethinking that, especially as they get their countries back up and running. The US surgeon general went from "they're useless!" to "here's how you make an effective homemade one" in a matter of weeks.

topmanamillion

topmanamillion wrote: »

There's a reason there's no uniform opinion on masks and gloves from national health authorities around the world. Some are willing to go down the "ah sure it's no harm wearing it if ye want" road others don't want to bullsh1t people.

That’s not quite true. There’s a pretty uniform view on face coverings (rather than surgical masks, which are meant to be one time use and can’t be washed and should be prioritised for health workers). And face coverings will for sure form part of our future, when in crowded places like transport

odyssey06

Turtwig wrote: »

It had but the risk to any random person based on all the best information available to them at the time was low. It may have been higher than they originally thought but that's another matter.

I have to say, I don't have much confidence in experts who make public pronouncements on such inadequate 'best' information.

The 'best' information they had available did not support the weight he put on his statement. They weren't actively looking for the virus in the community, they were waiting for it to come to them so to speak.

I distinguish between 'active' and 'passive' statements by experts as in "We have no evidence of X" versus "We did a study Y and it showed X was not occurring". I am very dubious of the passive statements and experts who trade in same.

Turtwig

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually T if you check out the video he directly mentions living with a known covid contact and that it's low risk and they're not shedding enough virus until they start showing symptoms like and I jest not a "runny nose and sore throat". Now if he'd said this in January fair enough, we're learning about this pox on a near daily basis, but he was coming out with that howler in March, a month after the WHO warned about the risks and three months after sore throat and runny nose was known to be down the list of symptoms for this dose. That's our top "expert". Jesus. Then again another one was saying t'is only grand to visit the elderly in old folks homes not too long ago after we all saw the devastation in Italy as far as the elderly were concerned and where the first confirmed case of our own epidemic was found in such a home. That orange gobsh1te Trump ignores his experts, too often we would have been better served by following his lead, well with actual common sense attached.

Fck me!
This is why I've little confidence for the health and safety they'll publish for employers to follow. It'll be a crap shoot when people have to go back to work.

Regarding masks. Effective medical grade ones need to be preserved for health care staff and vulnerable individuals. Everyone else wears a mask to protect other people not themselves.
The confusion arises on that latter part when past studies, pre covid, have shown masks encourage riskier behavior. My position for now is everyone should wear something and priority groups should wear the proper masks. This has flip flopped a lot in the past eight weeks.

JJJJNR

are they fn crazy instead of telling people to stop wearing gloves they should be educating people on how to properly use them and dispose of them saying its not necessary is crazy and is exactly how a second wave will happen.

Corona viruses remain active on hard surfaces for 9 days, people are not showing symptoms and some people are, it only takes one person not wearing gloves to start a cluster, its too premature to be stigmatising people for taking care of themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGBAoaV__Do

odyssey06

Wibbs wrote: »

No, again you completely miss the actual point about masks in an indoor shared public space. It's not about protection for the wearer, it is about protection from the wearer to another. Even a wet mask on someone's face reduces the spread of droplets from them to others.

I wonder, similarly, if someone has the virus, let's say an asymptomatic carrier would wearing gloves while shopping or a bus reduce the amount of virus they shed onto surfaces \ objects they touch?

BrianD3

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone that wears gloves must subconsciously (or consciously) think that the virus is absorbed through the skin. It is literally the only reason that they would be of any use. No glove wearer here can come up with a reason as to why wearing gloves are better than washing your hands with sanitiser and / or soap.

That's assuming that hand sanitiser and soap are available before touching a known clean surface. If you can wear gloves in a "dirty" area (e.g a shop) and then remove them before touching your car keys, car door handle, steering wheel etc. then that is useful. I wear gloves when shopping and have a routine using gloves and have dirty and clean parts of the car..

Also, hands with gloves on can be sanitised with bleach. Bare hands - not so much. For much of this crisis hand sanitiser has not been readily available whereas bleach is readily available.

thenightman

Put gloves on before go into shop- shop- pay- pack- put gloves in bin. What's the problem with that? I've not had any of my skin come into direct contact with any surface in the shop and as an added bonus, the bright blue gloves have reminded me not to mindlessly scratch my nose or eyes.

Same in work. I deal with various people and handle documents and use computer & keyboards that others have used and don't have the opportunity to wash my hands every 2 minutes. We also are quite low on sanitiser at the moment. Gloves remind me not to touch my face until I've washed my hands or had an opportunity to sanitise them. I've been doing this since March and haven't yet been infected, so I think I'll carry on with it.

Charles Babbage

topmanamillion wrote: »

People's use of gloves is a complete joke.
I've yet to see anyone wearing them appropriately.

In shops, they're touching trolleys, shelves, counters and any other surface imaginable. Then invariably the phone comes out of their pocket, up to their face or they just touch their face directly with the glove.

Good handwashing technique is immeasurably more useful than gloves which are just giving people a false sense of security.
Wash your hands before going to the shop or other public areas.
A bottle of hand gel in the car. And wash the hands again when you get home.
Keep your dirty hand away from your face and hair.

Leave the phone in your pocket for essential use when out and about.
And give it a good wipe when you get home and any other time you think it might need one.

It's not rocket science.

yes, but why are supermarkets not required to have handwashing facilities, outside if needs be, appropriate to the number of people visiting?

Wibbs

odyssey06 wrote: »

I wonder, similarly, if someone has the virus, let's say an asymptomatic carrier would wearing gloves while shopping or a bus reduce the amount of virus they shed onto surfaces \ objects they touch?

I'm not so sure O. If they wear them correctly maybe, but even then not so much. Human skin is designed to bugger pathogens right up. With the flu virus it doesn't last long on human skin before it gets fecked up. It "lives" a lot longer on latex. Now coronaviruses are bastards as they're less delicate because of their coating, but I'd bet the farm that if you put covid19 on human skin it might take hours to fall apart, but it would certainly last a lot longer on plastic/rubber. IIRC it's a few days on that kinda surface.

There have been a few studies on handwashing and they found that it alone didn't reduce risk of transmission, but with masks on as well it upped the success of both. Now this was indoors with families who had one member sick with flu, so how applicable to the "real world" of everyday life is up for grabs.

My personal opinion is that the virus "lives" and is produced in the airways and it's through the same airways it infects. You can't catch it directly through the skin of the hands, you only get it if you touch a surface with the virus and then transfer it to your mouth or nose into the airways, but the primary source is still the airways. The two metre rule(which I've also not yet seen any science to back that particular distance up. I certainly wouldn't want to be standing just two metres away from someone actively coughing or sneezing) is designed to keep your airways and their airways as far away as is considered safe to be.

So of all the "barrier" methods to preventing infection from and to people which is more logical to target, the hands or the airways? Distancing already does this, washing of hands does this even more indirectly, but covering the airway openings in everyone in an enclosed public space directly hits this pathway at source and at target. And yet we're being told it isn't much use. Except of course if you're already symptomatic or living with someone who is, then we're told they "magically" become effective. It's clearly an illogical contrary nonsense. Observe the diff in a cough between someone wearing a mask and someone not, and that's a basic surgical mask with a flimsy seal to the face(if it'll bloody load...).



Kinda like if a couple don't wanna get pregnant. Distancing would be like no wobbly bits in contact and ye sort each other out... Washing hands is like the pullout method, masks are like wearing a condom. Not 100% effective, but.. If you pullout and wear a blob on the knob, that effectiveness goes up.

I swear I've not been drinking. Yet...

Away With The Fairies

JJJJNR wrote: »

are they fn crazy instead of telling people to stop wearing gloves they should be educating people on how to properly use them and dispose of them saying its not necessary is crazy and is exactly how a second wave will happen.

Corona viruses remain active on hard surfaces for 9 days, people are not showing symptoms and some people are, it only takes one person not wearing gloves to start a cluster, its too premature to be stigmatising people for taking care of themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGBAoaV__Do

It takes one person not wearing gloves to start a cluster??? Wtf is this? So many people don't wear gloves properly... It's not the people not wearing gloves starting clusters... Not saying people who wear gloves are starting clusters either... But not wearing gloves, we're not starting clusters... Gloves don't make people invisible.

Saw a lady outside the shop with gloves on and smoking a fag. Touching her mouth with every puff... Went into the shop afterwards. Her spit all over her gloves with each puff... And then to go into the shop afterwards without changing gloves. Absolutely disgusting and passing on her germs to everything she touched in the shop.

Check out people wearing gloves and they don't sanitize the belt between customers or change gloves. They're only transferring germs from the groceries from the lady above smoking and passing it on to the next person wearing the same pair of gloves.

Edit: watched the video and she took her gloves off and said her hands were clean... No they weren't... You take gloves off and you still have to wash/sanitize hands.

JJJJNR

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

It takes one person not wearing gloves to start a cluster??? Wtf is this? So many people don't wear gloves properly... It's not the people not wearing gloves starting clusters... Not saying people who wear gloves are starting clusters either... But not wearing gloves, we're not starting clusters... Gloves don't make people invisible.

Saw a lady outside the shop with gloves on and smoking a fag. Touching her mouth with every puff... Went into the shop afterwards. Her spit all over her gloves with each puff... And then to go into the shop afterwards without changing gloves. Absolutely disgusting and passing on her germs to everything she touched in the shop.

Check out people wearing gloves and they don't sanitize the belt between customers or change gloves. They're only transferring germs from the groceries from the lady above smoking and passing it on to the next person wearing the same pair of gloves.

Edit: watched the video and she took her gloves off and said her hands were clean... No they weren't... You take gloves off and you still have to wash/sanitize hands.

If you watched the video she says sanitise/wash your hands before you put the gloves on, why would you need to sanitise after using clean gloves.

Away With The Fairies

JJJJNR wrote: »

If you watched the video she says sanitise/wash your hands before you put the gloves on, why would you need to sanitise after using clean gloves.

Because gloves aren't clean after you use them. You can contaminate hands when taking gloves off.

This is exactly why people think they're invisible with their gloves on.

JJJJNR

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Because gloves aren't clean after you use them. You can contaminate hands when taking gloves off.

This is exactly why people think they're invisible with their gloves on.

The inside of gloves are clean when you use them if your hands are already clean.. or does that not compute with you..there is a right and wrong way to take gloves off.. jasus wept were fkd with the the HSE telling people not to wear them because they haven't bothered to EDUCATE people on how to do it correctly. Why I don't know but I will continue to wear them properly because I researched the topic and know how to use them properly. instead of making smart remarks how about telling the people you see how to use them might save a life.

SouthWesterly

I wear gloves going shopping in Lidl
Put on my sanitiser before the gloves
Use the sanitiser in Lidl on the gloves and then spray down the trolley handle.
Spay my hands and off I shop. One hand on trolley, the other for shopping.
I sanitise my gloves leaving the shop.

Hrududu

I was in the chemists earlier, and while I was paying I asked if they had any masks. They did so I asked for one. Everything was behind the counter and I wasn’t really paying attention, she put one in the paper bag from the shop and off I trotted. When I got home and opened the bag the mask was loose inside. No packaging. It seemed a little...unhygienic?

Away With The Fairies

JJJJNR wrote: »

The inside of gloves are clean when you use them if your hands are already clean.. or does that not compute with you..there is a right and wrong way to take gloves off.. jasus wept were fkd with the the HSE telling people not to wear them because they haven't bothered to EDUCATE people on how to do it correctly. Why I don't know but I will continue to wear them properly because I researched the topic and know how to use them properly. instead of making smart remarks how about telling the people you see how to use them might save a life.

I know how to use gloves. I'm not talking about the inside of gloves. The outside of the gloves are dirty. You can contaminate hands when taking them off. Even doctors and nurses wash their hands after taking off their gloves. It's to minimise the risk of contamination. Wash hands, put on gloves, take gloves off and wash hands again. That is actually the correct way of using gloves so don't talk about researching because that video is not the correct way to use gloves.