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Garda brutality in Clonmel April 2020

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13567…10

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    #62
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Dude displays the same sort of short fuse and anger personality as these cops do.


    Hi Johnny, still licking your wounds? Nice of you to drop by.


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    #63
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    If you resist the Police when they try to put handcuffs on you are they not allowed to use some sort of physical force against you? There must be rules and guidelines controlling the application of handcuffs?


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    #64
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,673 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Yurt! wrote: »
    You're last post was arguing in favour of authoritarianism. Robocop was quite literally a satire of people clamouring for a police state. There's no hyperbole here. You're arguing in favour of assault.

    Can I ask you, who has license to beat the cr*p out of you and under what circumstance?

    You are looking at it from the wrong direction. It's not about who has the right, more who as their rights removed. IMHO yer man in the vid should have his rights suspended and therefore the Gardaí would be in a position to administer some pain compliance.

    In my utopia the video would have vindicated the Gardaí.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #65
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    There is a lot of talk here about civil rights but nothing about civil responsibilities


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yurt! wrote: »
    No-one has a license to beat up a prone person on the ground like that. Not you, not I, not Charlie Flanagan, not Drew Harris or Judge from Wanderly Wagon.

    Patience or their Garda badge doesn't come into it. If they can't effect an arrest without committing a fairly brutal assault, they're in the wrong line of work - end of story.

    Sometimes I think people would like to live in Argentina in the 1970s. Common sense as you say yourself.

    You didn't answer my question.

    And you're deflecting from my post. I didn't say that the Gardai had license to beat someone like that.

    As for living in Argentina, I live in China where the Police have serious freedom to do whatever they want to other people. It wasn't for that reason I chose to live there. I've lived in many countries (Russia, Thailand, etc) where the Police are far more brutal than Ireland.

    TBH street crime in China is extremely rare, especially violent crime. It still happens, but it's not done anywhere that there are police.. and there's a police booth on every street corner. I'd still prefer Ireland, hands down, as a place to live and raise children.

    So, let me ask again. If you were going to be arrested in Ireland, would you resist arrest there? Or would you comply and make your case at the station?


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    #67
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Deleted User wrote: »

    So, let me ask again. If you were going to be arrested in Ireland, would you resist arrest there? Or would you comply and make your case at the station?

    I don't need to answer your question to be frank and I don't see what your hypothesis has to do with the video at hand. I've never been arrested and honestly couldn't tell you how I'd react, and really, neither could you if you were arrested.

    In the discreet circumstances of the video, there is very little mitigating evidence for these Gardai.

    In any country with rule of law (as opposed to rule by law), which thankfully Ireland is, an assault on a prone person is illegal and punishable under the law.

    That goes for Murty tracksuit bottoms with the baggie of heroin, and Johnny buzzcut straight out of Templemore.


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    #68
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yurt! wrote: »
    I don't need to answer your question to be frank and I don't see what your hypothesis has to do with the video at hand. I've never been arrested and honestly couldn't tell you how I'd react, and really, neither could you if you were arrested.

    Ahh another deflection. Fine. Whatever. I'll leave you to your outrage.


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    #69
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ahh another deflection. Fine. Whatever. I'll leave you to your outrage.


    Ah give over Klaz.

    Believe it or not, AGS are trained how to arrest obstructive individuals and resistors without committing a dangerous assault. I, and many others will have seen this in action on the streets of Ireland I'm sure.

    These guys were caught rotten laying into a prone individual with closed fists. It's illegal under the law and with very good reason.

    I'm not sure why you're even bothering or what point you're trying to make.


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    #70
    statesaver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭statesaver


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Era we saw first hand in the North how that works out.

    You comparing a low level sectarian civil war to this ?


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    #71
    cml387
    Registered Users Posts: 8,446 ✭✭✭cml387


    Regardless of the ins and outs, the window from which the video was shot is easily identifiable. So the occupants would want to watch their step in future I would say.


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    #72
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Brings me back to the good old days of a bar of soap in a sock, a guy in secondary school told me he was brought to the station and, he got the bar of wet soap in a sock beating.
    This was back in 1993, he got it a few times.
    A bauld fckr he was, just a cheeky lad no fear of the cops. I think he had that condition called Congenital insensitivity.

    A right dare devil, he'd be stabbing himself with a compass into his hand out of boredom.
    As a kid he seen no problem with jumping off a tree...

    I remember he was on his Raleigh burner, peddling like fck, remember trying to cycle fast on one of those... well the chain snapped he went straight over his teeth hit the kirb...

    He got up, spat out two teeth and said am I bleeding...

    He's doing ok now, got into drinking and drug's clean and sober 15 year's...


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    #73
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 18,018 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    They're not though. Every representative body is in favour of them.

    Think there can be no more excuses, body cams needed ASAP.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #74
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    It looks fairly unprofessional when they started to strike the man.
    But if they wanted to harm him they could have easily done far worse, they seemed to be doing the minimum necessary to force the man to allow himself to be cuffed.
    Better training in restraints and holds would be a solution.


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    #75
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    Think there can be no more excuses, body cams needed ASAP.

    I don't think it's the Garda who object to bodycams, it's the Council for Civil Liberties who do.


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    #76
    Panthro
    Registered Users Posts: 14,807 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    I'd say Gemma ó Doherty rubbed one out watching that vid.


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    #77
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,810 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    It looks fairly unprofessional when they started to strike the man.
    But if they wanted to harm him they could have easily done far worse, they seemed to be doing the minimum necessary to force the man to allow himself to be cuffed.
    Better training in restraints and holds would be a solution.

    There are people on here with a LOT more experience than me, but holds and locks are only effective if the restrained person effectively goes limp or if you are willing to tear ligaments or break bones, and I can imagine the uproar if AGS started breaking out blood chokes and kneebars


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    #78
    AnMuinteoirOg
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭AnMuinteoirOg


    Fritzbox wrote: »
    I don't think it's the Garda who object to bodycams, it's the Council for Civil Liberties who do.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-body-cameras-could-breach-privacy-rights-iccl-warns-1.4067927


    https://www.thejournal.ie/extremely-problematic-civil-liberties-body-calls-for-a-hault-on-plans-to-introduce-body-cams-for-gardai-4871983-Oct2019/


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    #79
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    It looks fairly unprofessional when they started to strike the man.
    But if they wanted to harm him they could have easily done far worse, they seemed to be doing the minimum necessary to force the man to allow himself to be cuffed.
    Better training in restraints and holds would be a solution.

    People tend to be better behaved while they are aware they are being recorded or watch. Ever notice how modern hotels have mirrors in the rear of reception?


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    #80
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,672 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    Think there can be no more excuses, body cams needed ASAP.

    And a free licence to use tasers and pepper spray if lads resist. At the first sign of resistance if that lads was pepper sprayed and then tasered a single guard would handcuff him

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #81
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    a brutal beating that was not


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    #82
    dd973
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dd973


    Huge misunderstanding, it was a plain clothes Guard, who'd ate something that went down the wrong way, they were trying to clear his airways.


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    #83
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    And a free licence to use tasers and pepper spray if lads resist. At the first sign of resistance if that lads was pepper sprayed and then tasered a single guard would handcuff him

    have you heard of the hand cuffs made by H&K? They are hinged and are harder to get out of but if you are left in the for a prolonged period of time they do do permanent damage to the wrist.


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    #84
    utyh2ikcq9z76b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭utyh2ikcq9z76b


    It's excessive, they have went beyond restraint


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Harmless beating to make the prisoner comply. No weapons, no kicks. I had worse


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    #86
    FitzElla
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭FitzElla


    The guy was resisting arrest, the fact that 3 of them couldn't restrain him gives an idea of how much fight he was putting up. Sure it doesn't look pretty, but that is the hard end of the job. The strikes were all to the legs/body and are controlled. Without knowing the full circumstances and what led up to the video I would be slow to jump to conclusions.


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    #87
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    AnMuinteoirOg wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-body-cameras-could-breach-privacy-rights-iccl-warns-1.4067927


    https://www.thejournal.ie/extremely-problematic-civil-liberties-body-calls-for-a-hault-on-plans-to-introduce-body-cams-for-gardai-4871983-Oct2019/


    The Irish Council of Civil Liberties are a strange bunch, seemingly only concerned about Civil Liberties when it coincides with their right-on worldview and the interests of those they represent. For instance last year their 8-point published policy wishlist included Hate Speech Laws at No. 2, along with re-writing the Electoral Act, intended to prevent foreign money from impacting on Irish politics, at No. 8. Neither seem to be appropriate positions for an organisation ostensibly established to protect our civil liberties.


    Previous campaigns reflected their tendency to act as a lobbying group for the legal profession, as a body founded and headed by lawyers. For example in 2011 they lined up with the Bar Council and the Law Society to campaign for a no vote in the 30th Amendment, which proposed giving the Oireachtas powers of investigation similar to those held by the legislature in other democracies, which would be at the expense of the Courts and the Legal Profession by usurping their ability to run very lucrative, protracted, inconsequential tribunals on such matters.


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    #88
    the dark phantom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭the dark phantom


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    You imply that potentially any of us could have been the guy on the ground, that we live in some dystopian world where the guards randomly pick people to beat down for no reason.

    And it just isn't true.

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, I have no sympathy at all for some guy getting a few digs from the guards because I can be very confident that he wasn't just picked at random.

    Twenty two years ago on the neighbouring street Ard Na Greine, a Canadian tourist was badly beaten section 3 style by a local Garda, A big strapping Kerry man, He got sacked but strangely enough ended up back in the Gardaí after the Canadian didn't come back to give evidence in the appeal, working in Youghal now and is a sergeant. That case was on the local county newspaper I remember reading it.. Another common tactic is to charge the person they assaulted with assault as to deflect from themselves.


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    #89
    Granadino
    Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭Granadino


    the dark phantom wrote: »


    What do ye think of this ?

    Would love to see rest of video, and how this clip came to be.


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    #90
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,488 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    the dark phantom wrote: »
    Twenty two years ago on the neighbouring street Ard Na Greine, a Canadian tourist was badly beaten section 3 style by a local Garda, A big strapping Kerry man, He got sacked but strangely enough ended up back in the Gardaí after the Canadian didn't come back to give evidence in the appeal, working in Youghal now and is a sergeant. That case was on the local county newspaper I remember reading it.. Another common tactic is to charge the person they assaulted with assault as to deflect from themselves.

    And? So?

    One case from 22 years ago in which no mention is made of why that tourist came to the guards attention in the first place, just what is your point here?


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    #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Ah give over Klaz.

    No, I don't think I will.

    When someone is arrested by the Gardai, the logical (common sense) is to oblige them. They are the authority of the State regarding the law, and there should be some respect given to them for that. If I was to be arrested, I would have faith in the law, because I obey the laws. If I haven't, and I am arrested, then I deserve to be arrested... Resisting the Gardai when they're doing their duty is just stupid.

    And I don't feel like making all manner of excuses for people who have potentially broken the law. Oblige the Gardai, get cuffed, and proceed to the Garda Station. That's the reasonable and logical process. Resisting is not.

    I asked you a simple question, which you have chosen not to answer... Fine. It doesn't make your stance any more reasonable though.
    Believe it or not, AGS are trained how to arrest obstructive individuals and resistors without committing a dangerous assault. I, and many others will have seen this in action on the streets of Ireland I'm sure.

    These guys were caught rotten laying into a prone individual with closed fists. It's illegal under the law and with very good reason.

    I'm not sure why you're even bothering or what point you're trying to make.

    You're obviously not trying very hard to understand because you're focusing entirely on the idea of Police brutality, ignoring anything that might interfere with that brutality being a fact.

    And the truth is that I don't condone the violence within the video. But then, I don't condone resisting arrest either. And yes, I have been arrested twice before, didn't resist, and was cleared of the charges when interviewed at the station. The reasonable approach to being arrested.


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