Garda brutality in Clonmel April 2020

HerrKuehn

upupup wrote: »

Not much talk of this "Brutality" around clonmel.Its just anti-gardai-internet people need something to complain about.

nothing to see here in clonmel.move on:)

Well I am definitely not anti-gardai. It certainly isn't "Brutality" more like stupidity. The guy will probably get a payout because of the severe PTSD he is suffering.

hatrickpatrick

The context is entirely irrelevant. The guy is subdued, the Gardai are still beating him. That is wrong. Case closed.

It utterly depresses me to see people suggesting that police brutality can be justified based on prior events. The job of the police is not to punish wrongdoing, ever. That's for the courts.

upupup

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The context is entirely irrelevant. The guy is subdued, the Gardai are still beating him. That is wrong. Case closed.

It utterly depresses me to see people suggesting that police brutality can be justified based on prior events. The job of the police is not to punish wrongdoing, ever. That's for the courts.

He is not subdued when we gets the punches,he is in the process of being subdued.they get the handcuffs on him after the punches which proves the punches allowed a safer arrest for all involved

Strumms

upupup wrote: »

He is not subdued when we gets the punches,he is in the process of being subdued.they get the handcuffs on him after the punches which proves the punches allowed a safer arrest for all involved

For ALL involved ? I doubt the guy being arrested feels that way and many of us who watch the video would agree. It’s not a reasonable level of force, it’s not a required level of force. The Gardai also seem to be doing a great job of getting in each other’s way. While the guy is resisting being cuffed, the three muppets are bumping into each other, and seemingly doing as good a job in preventing him being cuffed then he is.

bucketybuck

smelly sock wrote: »

Here is the rub of it,

That could be any of us beinv treated like that in the video.

Horse****. That could never be any of us being treated like that, because the vast majority of people will never be resisting arrest in the middle of the street in the early hours.

This is no case of "There but for the grace of god go I", the guy was not in the wrong place at the wrong time and it would not have happened to me if I had been there instead of him.

upupup

Strumms wrote: »

For ALL involved ? I doubt the guy being arrested feels that way and many of us who watch the video would agree. It’s not a reasonable level of force, it’s not a required level of force. The Gardai also seem to be doing a great job of getting in each other’s way. While the guy is resisting being cuffed, the three muppets are bumping into each other, and seemingly doing as good a job in preventing him being cuffed then he is.

Do you believe that you would do a better job cuffing him?
Should the Gardai wait for as long as it takes for him to comply?
and if they wait what happens to any other emergency call that may come in?

A few good punches and the cuffs went on,job done.They guy on the ground had the choice of "nice and gentle" arrest or "painfull" arrest.

Please be "nice and gentle" to the our criminals and law breakers or we will be outraged!!!:D

colm_mcm

Strumms wrote: »

For ALL involved ? I doubt the guy being arrested feels that way and many of us who watch the video would agree. It’s not a reasonable level of force, it’s not a required level of force. The Gardai also seem to be doing a great job of getting in each other’s way. While the guy is resisting being cuffed, the three muppets are bumping into each other, and seemingly doing as good a job in preventing him being cuffed then he is.

For the majority involved.

Vizzy

colm_mcm wrote: »

For the majority anyone who matters involved.

Fixed that there for ya colm

Strumms

upupup wrote: »

Do you believe that you would do a better job cuffing him?
Should the Gardai wait for as long as it takes for him to comply?
and if they wait what happens to any other emergency call that may come in?

A few good punches and the cuffs went on,job done.They guy on the ground had the choice of "nice and gentle" arrest or "painfull" arrest.

Please be "nice and gentle" to the our criminals and law breakers or we will be outraged!!!:D

Did I say I’d do a better job ? I can comment as can anyone on boards.ie with say an opinion on anything even say a sporting performance, if I was critical of Diego Costa would you still come out with... “ do you believe you’d do a better job ? “.

Nice and gentle ? How about professional and law abiding, reasonable and appropriate force, that will do me. Whatever character traits or indeed the lack of them that the guy face down possessed or otherwise he is still not entitled to be assaulted. He was a criminal? Perhaps, perhaps not, that generally comes when you are convicted as opposed to apprehended.

All of a sudden that would become the default stance of his colleagues too, “caught one up to no good, so we hit him multiple times”.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

For ALL involved ? I doubt the guy being arrested feels that way and many of us who watch the video would agree. It’s not a reasonable level of force, it’s not a required level of force. The Gardai also seem to be doing a great job of getting in each other’s way. While the guy is resisting being cuffed, the three muppets are bumping into each other, and seemingly doing as good a job in preventing him being cuffed then he is.

Sign up and show them how it should be done.

I presume of course that you have the legal knowledge and restraint technique training needed to comment?

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The context is entirely irrelevant. The guy is subdued, the Gardai are still beating him. That is wrong. Case closed.

It utterly depresses me to see people suggesting that police brutality can be justified based on prior events. The job of the police is not to punish wrongdoing, ever. That's for the courts.

Irony.

You have found them guilty based on an edited clip and either any training it experience in the chosen field.

Are you this quick to tell your doctor and mechanic how it should be done.?

Strumms

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Sign up and show them how it should be done.

I presume of course that you have the legal knowledge and restraint technique training needed to comment?

I don’t but I certainly have access to those who do.

Sign up ? I don’t think you can ‘sign up’

walshb

the dark phantom wrote: »

What do ye think of this ?

I don’t condone brutality, but the world these days has been watered down and blurred beyond belief..

Remember water protests? Gardaí doing their jobs and moving people along like handling children and being accused of brutality whilst having phones stuck in their faces!

walshb

circadian wrote: »

People complaining about brutality are probably the same folks that would be calling for some sort of vigilante justice in retaliation to some unsavoury act.

This in a nutshell...

But god forbid the people charged with keeping us all safe dare to use any kind of force.........

upupup

Strumms wrote: »

Did I say I’d do a better job ? I can comment as can anyone on boards.ie with say an opinion on anything even say a sporting performance, if I was critical of Diego Costa would you still come out with... “ do you believe you’d do a better job ? “.

Nice and gentle ? How about professional and law abiding, reasonable and appropriate force, that will do me. Whatever character traits or indeed the lack of them that the guy face down possessed or otherwise he is still not entitled to be assaulted. He was a criminal? Perhaps, perhaps not, that generally comes when you are convicted as opposed to apprehended.

All of a sudden that would become the default stance of his colleagues too, “caught one up to no good, so we hit him multiple times”.

"professional and law abiding, reasonable and appropriate force" will work in most cases but not all cases so what do the gardai do?
Wait for him to comply?no,that's not going to work.
Hit him gently or just 1 good punch?no,as this could go on for hours.

The gardai gave him a few good belts which some will call assault but most will see it as an essential tactic to get the cuffs on and get the situation under control.
I'v been arrested a few times in my younger wilder days and never got a belt because I complied.Its a choice we all have, put on the cuffs and come to the station peacefully or we will force the cuffs on you.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t but I certainly have access to those who do.

Sign up ? I don’t think you can ‘sign up’

So, you don't.

And yes, you do sign up. You sign a contract. Feel free to apply and do so then in a few years you will be able to show them all that they are doing wrong.

Odhinn

upupup wrote: »

"professional and law abiding, reasonable and appropriate force" will work in most cases but not all cases so what do the gardai do?
Wait for him to comply?no,that's not going to work.
Hit him gently or just 1 good punch?no,as this could go on for hours.

The gardai gave him a few good belts which some will call assault but most will see it as an essential tactic to get the cuffs on and get the situation under control.
I'v been arrested a few times in my younger wilder days and never got a belt because I complied.Its a choice we all have, put on the cuffs and come to the station peacefully or we will force the cuffs on you.

There was no sign of yer man in the video resisting the cuffs at all.

tayto lover

Odhinn wrote: »

There was no sign of yer man in the video resisting the cuffs at all.

There was. Look at it again.

upupup

Odhinn wrote: »

There was no sign of yer man in the video resisting the cuffs at all.

They get his hands behind his back @1.07 but can't get the cuffs on so they use force and the cuffs go on.It was his choice to do it the hard way or the easy way

smelly sock

bucketybuck wrote: »

Horse****. That could never be any of us being treated like that, because the vast majority of people will never be resisting arrest in the middle of the street in the early hours.

This is no case of "There but for the grace of god go I", the guy was not in the wrong place at the wrong time and it would not have happened to me if I had been there instead of him.

I'd disagree. After seeing what AGS are capable of in terms of corruption, dishonesty and criminalty id argue that any of us could end up a victim of this.

The guy is more than likely a scrote but the Gardai are not judge and jury. That camt be considered reasonable force.

smelly sock

upupup wrote: »

They get his hands behind his back @1.07 but can't get the cuffs on so they use force and the cuffs go on.It was his choice to do it the hard way or the easy way

They bet him whilst holding him down.

One things for sure, these lads cannot be accused of being soft on crime.

upupup

smelly sock wrote: »

They bet him whilst holding him down.

They can not let him go.
They can not get the cuffs on.
They do what needs to be done to get the cuffs on.

If this was garda brutality then he would have got a beating AFTER the cuffs go on.The video ends after the cuffs go on which suggests nothing else happened.Job done,let's go back to the station for tea and biscuits.

LillySV

They should be issued with good thick batons to ensure they do a good job on troublesome scum who cause bother

end of the road

upupup wrote: »

They can not let him go.
They can not get the cuffs on.
They do what needs to be done to get the cuffs on.

If this was garda brutality then he would have got a beating AFTER the cuffs go on.The video ends after the cuffs go on which suggests nothing else happened.Job done,let's go back to the station for tea and biscuits.

not necessarily, brutality can come in a number of possible forms.

walshb

end of the road wrote: »

not necessarily, brutality can come in a number of possible forms.

True..

But for any police force to work, a certain level of force is required.

Law and order is D first and most important part of any society.....nothing else can work if we do not have it.

I don't know what it's like in every country, but our force would be one of the most passive I'd imagine....

There are times where they really need to be a lot more firm, without needing to be barbaric or brutal. Just firm.

If the people didn't respect the law, then the law cannot work. No need to fear it, but there is absolutely a need to respect it...

And of course, onus should be on the people to respect...you want to be a smart arse, troublesome, uncooperative and problematic when a garda is trying to do his/her job, then be prepared to face consequences.....and rightly so.

tayto lover

From looking at that video which doesn’t show what happened before for some reason???? the Garda used exactly the amount of force required.
When the hand cuffs were on the force stopped.

end of the road

walshb wrote: »

True..

But for any police force to work, a certain level of force is required.

Law and order is D first and most important part of any society.....nothing else can work if we do not have it.

I don't know what it's like in every country, but our force would be one of the most passive I'd imagine....

There are times where they really need to be a lot more firm, without needing to be barbaric or brutal. Just firm.

If the people didn't respect the law, then the law cannot work. No need to fear it, but there is absolutely a need to respect it...

And of course, onus should be on the people to respect...you want to be a smart arse, troublesome, uncooperative and problematic when a garda is trying to do his/her job, then be prepared to face consequences.....and rightly so.

more modern rather then passive.
the certain levels of force they can use will be within whatever procedures which they must work within, i doubt punching someone on the ground, who going on the video at least could have been cuffed easily, will be within them however.
the law can work whether people respect it or not, people breaking the law aren't respecting it and yet people are caught and convicted up and down the country on a daily basis.
being a smartarse is a non-issue really, shouldn't happen but nothing to really bother about hence generally it looks to be felt that no consequences are required, for the rest, the relevant laws and their proscribed punishments are the consequences.

colm_mcm

Odhinn wrote: »

There was no sign of yer man in the video resisting the cuffs at all.

Do you think the officer was just really bad at putting them on, that’s why it took so long?

Edgware

LillySV wrote: »

They should be issued with good thick batons to ensure they do a good job on troublesome scum who cause bother

"Because they stand on a wall and say "Nothing's going to hurt you tonight, not on my watch"