Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

Gregor Samsa

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Expected to isolate... no requirement, up to each person.

Mandatory quarantine is unenforceable under legislation.

"The minister also said earlier this week that while it is mandatory to fill out the form, making it mandatory for people to complete self-isolation is "tricky, legally".

Yeah, but you're giving the impression that the form just asks for your name and address. It goes a bit further than that in specifically mentioning self isolation and the prospect of being checked up on. Just posted it for full clarity so people can make up their own minds from the source, as opposed to people's interpretations. I'm not claiming that it enforces quarantine.

Micky 32

Looking at the form you have to tick a box if you’re exempt from “isollating”. I’m curious why that would be there if isolating isn’t even law.

Drumpot

stephenjmcd wrote: »

For the love of god, again...

Your signing a form telling them where your located in Ireland and where your coming from. I've seen the form, your not signing anything to say you'll be self isolating because it's not allowed under law.

It's a form with your details and your address, that's it.

There's fcuk all they can do if they check in and your not there. The gardai also dont have the resources to go around checking, it'll be a phone call if anything.

Again I'll repeat your not signing any form to say your self isolating, your giving your details, where you've come from and where you'll be residing in the country, that's it. Your declaring nothing about self isolating, it would need a completely different law.

It's not difficult to understand

We can all read the form https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/coronavirus/covid-19-passenger-locator-form.pdf

It effectively does the same job because if I’m reading that form before going to a country I’m asking the questions the I posted. I’m asking what this means:

• A member of An Garda Síochána who suspects that an offence has been committed may demand the name and address of the person who is suspected of committing the offence. Failure to comply with this demand or the production of a false name and/or address is an offence for which a person may be arrested.

If you are a Traveller to Ireland and you Check https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html

Arriving to Ireland from another country

By law, if you arrive in Ireland from any other country you will need to fill in a form called the Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form. You'll also be asked to self-isolate for 14 days.

Most people won’t be comforted by ˋit’s not really possible to be fined or sent to jail´ If you don’t self isolate . For most people if it floats, looks and sounds like a duck even if it’s technically not a duck, it’s a duck.

An Ciarraioch

As for the panic about arrivals at the airports, the CSO have released the air and sea travel stats for April, and numbers have declined by 99%, from 1.7m in 2019, to 16,000 in 2020 - an average of 520 per day between all airports, presumably virtually all Irish:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ast/airandseatravelstatisticsapril2020/

Even then, air only accounts for 12,000 passengers, or 400 per day.

MerlinSouthDub

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Interesting things to note after Stephen posted the ICU numbers on here last night:
1) CMO said 5 admissions but I think the total number in ICU decreased by 1? It seems to be 1 in 1 out atm.
2) Out of 48 cases in ICU 32 are being ventilated. This means that literally only the most serious are in ICU, and it’s likely they’ve been there for a while.

I don’t see the worry the CMO is on about.

Yep, there doesn't appear to be any substance to the worry he expressed yesterday. He just likes trying to scare us I think.

owlbethere

Did the ESRI look into the lockdown/restrictions and establish its causing misery for the vast majority of the population? What were their findings?

stephenjmcd

Drumpot wrote: »

We can all read the form https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/coronavirus/covid-19-passenger-locator-form.pdf

It effectively does the same job because if I’m reading that form before going to a country I’m asking the questions the I posted. I’m asking what this means:

• A member of An Garda Síochána who suspects that an offence has been committed may demand the name and address of the person who is suspected of committing the offence. Failure to comply with this demand or the production of a false name and/or address is an offence for which a person may be arrested.

If you are a Traveller to Ireland and you Check https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html

Arriving to Ireland from another country

By law, if you arrive in Ireland from any other country you will need to fill in a form called the Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form. You'll also be asked to self-isolate for 14 days.

Most people won’t be comforted by ˋit’s not really possible to be fined or sent to jail´ If you don’t self isolate . For most people It floats, looks and sounds like a duck even if it’s technically not a duck.

Grand suit yourself I'm finished explaining it.

There is nothing to stop someone coming into the country filling in the form and going out day to day about their business.

It is not an offense to not self isolate. You being asked not mandated.

Read it whatever you want those are the facts of it

Gregor Samsa

owlbethere wrote: »

Did the ESRI look into the lockdown/restrictions and establish its causing misery for the vast majority of the population? What were their findings?

That's a loaded question if ever I saw one

A quick look at esri.ie reveals that they published this today:

https://www.esri.ie/news/irish-economy-faces-largest-recession-in-history-as-lockdown-takes-its-toll

fr336

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

As for the panic about arrivals at the airports, the CSO have released the air and sea travel stats for April, and numbers have declined by 99%, from 1.7m in 2019, to 16,000 in 2020 - an average of 520 per day between all airports, presumably virtually all Irish:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ast/airandseatravelstatisticsapril2020/

Even then, air only accounts for 12,000 passengers, or 400 per day.

They declined by 99% because the airlines cancelled 99% of flights due to a national lockdown. And even if they hadn't people would have found it hard to get out of their own country due to worldwide lockdowns.

GazzaL

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Expected to isolate... no requirement, up to each person.

Mandatory quarantine is unenforceable under legislation and theres absolutely nothing that they can do to make sure you stay at home for 14 days.

"The minister also said earlier this week that while it is mandatory to fill out the form, making it mandatory for people to complete self-isolation is "tricky, legally".

If you are transiting to the North, what's the point in filling out the address then?

The whole thing is a big "**** YOU" to tourism and business.

Drumpot

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Grand suit yourself I'm finished explaining it.

There is nothing to stop someone coming into the country filling in the form and going out day to day about their business.

It is not an offense to not self isolate.

Read it whatever you want those are the facts of it

You don’t need to explain it, just understand that most will interpret it that you might get fined if you don’t isolate When you come here. Why people would want to goto another country and Belligerently not do what it’s authority’s are asking ( self isolate) is another thing.

Micky 32

Drumpot wrote: »

We can all read the form https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/coronavirus/covid-19-passenger-locator-form.pdf

It effectively does the same job because if I’m reading that form before going to a country I’m asking the questions the I posted. I’m asking what this means:

• A member of An Garda Síochána who suspects that an offence has been committed may demand the name and address of the person who is suspected of committing the offence. Failure to comply with this demand or the production of a false name and/or address is an offence for which a person may be arrested.
.

That’s for not signing the locator form or giving false info.

Plumbthedepths

GazzaL wrote: »

The whole thing is a big "**** YOU" to tourism and business.

It will be dropped before the end of Summer, when commonsense makes an appearance again.

stephenjmcd

Drumpot wrote: »

You don’t need to explain it, just understand that most will interpret it that you might get fined if you don’t isolate When you come here. Why people would want to goto another country and Belligerently not do what it’s authority’s are asking ( self isolate) is another thing.

Well I did need to explain it as you were saying it was mandatory

Drumpot

Micky 32 wrote: »

That’s for not signing the locator form or giving false info.

But that’s how most will read it. I get what Stephen is saying, some of you don’t seem to get that it doesn’t matter if it’s not law if most people aren’t sure. Reading that form alone is daunting.

Most people follow the laws and guidelines. The only reason this may need to be made law is for the few c^nts who think they should be able to do what they want and will ruin it for everyone else to suit themselves.

stephenjmcd

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It will be dropped before the end of Summer, when commonsense makes an appearance again.

It lapses on 18th June. Could potentially be a new government by then.

With European countries gearing towards the 15th for a restart of travel and a sense of come July most countries will be open for business then it won't last long here

stephenjmcd

Drumpot wrote: »

But that’s how most will read it. I get what Stephen is saying, some of you don’t seem to get that it doesn’t matter if it’s not law if most people aren’t sure. Reading that form alone is daunting.

Most people follow the laws and guidelines. The only reason this may need to be made law is for the few c^nts who think they should be able to do what they want and will ruin it for everyone else to suit themselves.

Yes reading the form would be daunting, but outside of a contact tracing use it's quite pointless at the moment.

Would have been handy to have it back in March.

But it's like saying law at the moment is dont go beyond 5k, that's openly being flouted.

Drumpot

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well I did need to explain it as you were saying it was mandatory

That’s fair, but most people will read it like I did. That was the Irish times, not a rag paper and i thought the signing and isolating were linked.

Plumbthedepths

Drumpot wrote: »

But that’s how most will read it. I get what Stephen is saying, some of you don’t seem to get that it doesn’t matter if it’s not law if most people aren’t sure. Reading that form alone is daunting.

Most people follow the laws and guidelines. The only reason this may need to be made law is for the few c^nts who think they should be able to do what they want and will ruin it for everyone else to suit themselves.

They won't be able to make it law, as it contravenes the freedom of movement , an EU law. Even Harris knows this.

stephenjmcd

Drumpot wrote: »

That’s fair, but most people will read it like I did. That was the Irish times, not a rag paper and i thought the signing and isolating were linked.

No worries and I can see how most people will take it as that

Drumpot

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

They won't be able to make it law, as it contravenes the freedom of movement an EU law. Even Harris knows this.

Im not so sure anything is off the table. Look at countries closing borders as things got bad, it became everybody for themselves. If there is a second wave they will have to look at longer term solutions. A country being able to shut its borders is surely one.

If Europe had closed itself to Italy in feb, would things if been as bad?

fr336

NDWC wrote: »

Headline on rte: "South Korea fears second wave as new cases spike"

To clarify, that's a massive 79 new cases in a country of 50 MILLION PEOPLE.

Fearmongering like that from our national broadcaster is truly shameful. No wonder so many people are scared stiff.

Really don't see your point. At all. Due to these cases South Korea is pulling the shutters down again in certain areas. RTE are reporting that. Have you ever heard of exponential growth? Places like South Korea (and the health professionals in Ireland and everywhere else) are fearful of getting back in a situation as in March where those 79 cases snowball into something much bigger and the following deaths. I find your 50 million population>79 cases comparison pointless. So what? This was always the case. Corona was never going to take down 50 million or even a million in one country. The question is how many deaths you think is fine? In a small country like Ireland is that 10,000? 20,0000? 50,0000? More? In a larger country like the UK population 65 million what is acceptable? 500,000? Why not just admit that RTE aren't scaremongering, you just want the country open and that's that? Just like you probably didn't want it closed in March. It was "just the flu". Apologies if I'm wrong, all these "stop scaring posts" are blurring into one for me.

Plumbthedepths

Drumpot wrote: »

Im not so sure anything is off the table. Look at countries closing borders as things got bad, it became everybody for themselves. If there is a second wave they will have to look at longer term solutions. A country being able to shut its borders is surely one.

If Europe had closed itself to Italy in feb, would things if been as bad?

Countries closed borders after declaring an emergency which is allowed under EU law. We didn't so we have to follow the law and inform the commission of lifting of restrictions in line with the rest of Europe.
As I said Harris is aware of the rules, his mandatory rules on isolation are meaningless and open to challenge, most likely illegal if they attempt to enforce them.

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

It lapses on 18th June. Could potentially be a new government by then.

With European countries gearing towards the 15th for a restart of travel and a sense of come July most countries will be open for business then it won't last long here

Would be great if all countries tested people on entry. Not sure how quick results could be or whether it would be possible to test at mass scale but maybe for next few weeks at least.

Drumpot

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Countries closed borders after declaring an emergency which is allowed under EU law. We didn't so we have to follow the law and inform the commission of lifting of restrictions in line with the rest of Europe.
As I said Harris is aware of the rules, his mandatory rules on isolation are meaningless and open to challenge, most likely illegal if they attempt to enforce them.

But if for example another EU country has a savage outbreak like Italy, there will be pressure to amend these rules. Different countries decided when they thought it was an emergency. I would argue that the laws that govern movement within Europe are not fit for purpose when a virus is spreading.

Drumpot

Eod100 wrote: »

Would be great if all countries tested people on entry. Not sure how quick results could be or whether it would be possible to test at mass scale but maybe for next few weeks at least.

I believe Iceland will be doing this.

fr336

Love how the UK is always banging on about "world beating" this, world beating that. This time in terms of testing. Surprise surprise it is far from world beating. Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so, guys.

Plumbthedepths

Drumpot wrote: »

But if for example another EU country has a savage outbreak like Italy, there will be pressure to amend these rules. Different countries decided when they thought it was an emergency. I would argue that the laws that govern movement within Europe are not fit for purpose when a virus is spreading.

Any suggestions from parliament that they going to amend the rules you believe are unfit?

Drumpot

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Any suggestions from parliament that they going to amend the rules you believe are unfit?

I was responding to your comments that I was interpreting as suggesting that an EU country cannot legally enforce the self isolation rules on another person from the EU visiting their country.

If it is illegal for a country to bring in rules that it feels are appropriate for its protection during a pandemic/emergency, then these are the ones that need to be reviewed. Part of the issue with the outbreak was the incompetently slow response of individual countries and the EU as a unit.

All these laws were made with most likely no consideration for this sort of scenario. Like most things in western democracies, they are reactive, not extremely pro active at addressing potential disasters and seldom have the correct measures/laws in place to deal with said disasters.

Onesea

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Theres no quarantine when entering Ireland. Its mandatory to fill in the locator form and that's it.

Will messege the embassy and tell them they are wrong so

Plumbthedepths

Drumpot wrote: »

I was responding to your comments that I was interpreting as suggesting that an EU country cannot legally enforce the self isolation rules on another person from the EU visiting their country.

If it is illegal for a country to bring in rules that it feels are appropriate for its protection during a pandemic/emergency, then these are the ones that need to be reviewed. Part of the issue with the outbreak was the incompetently slow response of individual countries and the EU as a unit.

All these laws were made with most likely no consideration for this sort of scenario. Like most things in western democracies, they are reactive, not extremely pro active at addressing potential disasters and seldom have the correct measures/laws in place to deal with said disasters.

My only response is Ireland did not declare an emergency which would have allowed us impose the restrictions Harris and co want to impose now. We didn't so they contravene EU law on freedom of movement. We have started to lift restrictions so too late to declare an emergency.
I have no more to say on the matter as it's off topic.

ZX7R

NDWC wrote: »

Headline on rte: "South Korea fears second wave as new cases spike"

To clarify, that's a massive 79 new cases in a country of 50 MILLION PEOPLE.

Fearmongering like that from our national broadcaster is truly shameful. No wonder so many people are scared stiff.

Terrible heading to the article and they don't expect anymore new cases from the cluster after today as they have done full contact tracing

Micky 32

fr336 wrote: »

Really don't see your point. At all. Due to these cases South Korea is pulling the shutters down again in certain areas. RTE are reporting that. Have you ever heard of exponential growth? Places like South Korea (and the health professionals in Ireland and everywhere else) are fearful of getting back in a situation as in March where those 79 cases snowball into something much bigger and the following deaths. I find your 50 million population>79 cases comparison pointless. So what? This was always the case. Corona was never going to take down 50 million or even a million in one country. The question is how many deaths you think is fine? In a small country like Ireland is that 10,000? 20,0000? 50,0000? More? In a larger country like the UK population 65 million what is acceptable? 500,000? Why not just admit that RTE aren't scaremongering, you just want the country open and that's that? Just like you probably didn't want it closed in March. It was "just the flu". Apologies if I'm wrong, all these "stop scaring posts" are blurring into one for me.

fr336 wrote: »

Love how the UK is always banging on about "world beating" this, world beating that. This time in terms of testing. Surprise surprise it is far from world beating. Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so, guys.

You should be able to enjoy the doom and gloom drooling and frothing at the mouth for longer so, enjoy ;-)

owlbethere

https://connachttribune.ie/uhg-nurse-battles-for-her-life-in-icu-180/

A young nurse in UHG in ICU. She's looks like a beautiful lady. It's so sad. Hopefully she will pull through and makes a recovery.

I don't want to use this as some sort of a point scoring football but I will say, if it wasn't for the lockdown, this virus would have spread more throughout society and we would have seen more of this - young adults in hospital and ICU.

MD1990

fr336 wrote: »

Love how the UK is always banging on about "world beating" this, world beating that. This time in terms of testing. Surprise surprise it is far from world beating. Just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so, guys.

Find it very odd that who love it that the Uk are trying to proclaim they are now doing well.

Its very sad how badly the UK have done.

Plumbthedepths

owlbethere wrote: »

https://connachttribune.ie/uhg-nurse-battles-for-her-life-in-icu-180/

if it wasn't for the lockdown, this virus would have spread more throughout society and we would have seen more of this - young adults in hospital and ICU.

This is nothing more than guesswork on your behalf. The evidence of who it affects is readily available elderly and those with underlying conditions are the victims of this virus.

Micky 32

MD1990 wrote: »

Find it very odd that who love it that the Uk are trying to proclaim they are now doing well.

Its very sad how badly the UK have done.

They are doing a lot better, their deaths have dropped significantly over the last month.

Sweet.Science

owlbethere wrote: »

https://connachttribune.ie/uhg-nurse-battles-for-her-life-in-icu-180/

A young nurse in UHG in ICU. She's looks like a beautiful lady. It's so sad. Hopefully she will pull through and makes a recovery.

I don't want to use this as some sort of a point scoring football but I will say, if it wasn't for the lockdown, this virus would have spread more throughout society and we would have seen more of this - young adults in hospital and ICU.

Crazy how it affects certain ethnic groups more than others

Deeper Blue

fr336 wrote: »

Really don't see your point. At all. Due to these cases South Korea is pulling the shutters down again in certain areas. RTE are reporting that. Have you ever heard of exponential growth? Places like South Korea (and the health professionals in Ireland and everywhere else) are fearful of getting back in a situation as in March where those 79 cases snowball into something much bigger and the following deaths. I find your 50 million population>79 cases comparison pointless. So what? This was always the case. Corona was never going to take down 50 million or even a million in one country. The question is how many deaths you think is fine? In a small country like Ireland is that 10,000? 20,0000? 50,0000? More? In a larger country like the UK population 65 million what is acceptable? 500,000? Why not just admit that RTE aren't scaremongering, you just want the country open and that's that? Just like you probably didn't want it closed in March. It was "just the flu". Apologies if I'm wrong, all these "stop scaring posts" are blurring into one for me.

Hi Dr Tony

fr336

Micky 32 wrote: »

You should be able to enjoy the doom and gloom drooling and frothing at the mouth for longer so, enjoy ;-)

Yeah I'm really enjoying it. Before all this I mainly posted on Aviation and Aircraft. Guess what? There's hardly any planes. So I have an interest in aviation, you'd assume I'd want planes in the air right? I also have other interests outside the house. But you know it all, I just want everything locked down forever blah blah blah blah. If there's a second wave, I'll hope you'll take responsibility for the lost lives and economic damage (depression).

fr336

NDWC wrote: »

Hi Dr Tony

Hi President Trump

fr336

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

This is nothing more than guesswork on your behalf. The evidence of who it affects is readily available elderly and those with underlying conditions are the victims of this virus.

Well you'd know all about guesswork. I guess if there wasn't a lockdown we'd have exactly the same amount of young people dying and in intensive care. Nothing to see here folks.

Micky 32

fr336 wrote: »

Yeah I'm really enjoying it. Before all this I mainly posted on Aviation and Aircraft. Guess what? There's hardly any planes. So I have an interest in aviation, you'd assume I'd want planes in the air right? I also have other interests outside the house. But you know it all, I just want everything locked down forever blah blah blah blah. If there's a second wave, I'll hope you'll take responsibility for the lost lives and economic damage (depression).

You should research more before posting scaremongering shyte. The Uk deaths are down to half of what they were and the South Korea 79 cases are now isolated and don’t expect any more new cases from that cluster.

fr336

owlbethere wrote: »

https://connachttribune.ie/uhg-nurse-battles-for-her-life-in-icu-180/

A young nurse in UHG in ICU. She's looks like a beautiful lady. It's so sad. Hopefully she will pull through and makes a recovery.

I don't want to use this as some sort of a point scoring football but I will say, if it wasn't for the lockdown, this virus would have spread more throughout society and we would have seen more of this - young adults in hospital and ICU.

It's not politics to want to save lives and the economy. This is like wartime - it should be above politics.

fr336

Micky 32 wrote: »

You should research more before posting scaremongering shyte. The Uk deaths are down to half of what they were and the South Korea 79 cases are now isolated and don’t expect any more new cases from that cluster.

It's called progress and proceeding with caution. You are the complete opposite end. Tell me, did you agree with locking down at all?

Drumpot

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My only response is Ireland did not declare an emergency which would have allowed us impose the restrictions Harris and co want to impose now. We didn't so they contravene EU law on freedom of movement. We have started to lift restrictions so too late to declare an emergency.
I have no more to say on the matter as it's off topic.

I was just responding to your question, you brought up legality within EU

Micky 32

fr336 wrote: »

It's called progress and proceeding with caution. You are the complete opposite end. Tell me, did you agree with locking down at all?

To be honest i haven’t thought much about it because the lockdown hasn’t affected me at all, i’m out and about as normal thanks to my line of work. In fact i drove 50km from my home today and it was legal.

No, your posts dwell on doom and gloom. Posting scaremongering posts that we’re all gonna die isn’t about progress and proceding with caution

Plumbthedepths

fr336 wrote: »

Well you'd know all about guesswork. I guess if there wasn't a lockdown we'd have exactly the same amount of young people dying and in intensive care. Nothing to see here folks.

Stupid response tbh.

fr336

Micky 32 wrote: »

To be honest i haven’t thought much about it because the lockdown hasn’t affected me at all, i’m out and about as normal thanks to my line of work. In fact i drove 50km from my home today and it was legal.

No, your posts dwell on doom and gloom. Posting scaremongering posts that we’re all gonna die isn’t about progress and proceding with caution

WHERE have I said all going to die? Even at its worst Corona wouldn't get a million of the population. How much is acceptable to you? 50,000? 100,000?

fr336

Good news, people! The UK now has the most excess deaths in the WORLD. On the plus side, it remains the 5th largest economy in the world. It's also a really lovely sunny day here. I'm feeling really positive about how things are going and look forward to getting the country back to work and prospering.