Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

growleaves

Strumms wrote: »

The purpose of social distancing was to flatten the curve. To enable the health service and country to cope with the onslaught and fallout from it.

In the main it’s worked. Without it the country would be fücked.

Social distancing is responsible, it won’t last years, restrictions are already being lifted.

Some voices in the media and mainstream politics and on this site have called for years-long social distancing, and multiple years-long lockdowns. It may not happen but is wrong and dangerous to ask for this.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

False. Not getting into a theological debate but some Christians e.g. believe that God is not omnipotent but can influence the universe in positive but limited ways. It doesn't follow logically that God is responsible for deaths/ bad things that happen.

That's handy, he can take credit when it suits, but none of the blame. Sweet deal

Strumms

growleaves wrote: »

False. Not getting into a theological debate but some Christians e.g. believe that God is not omnipotent but can influence the universe in positive but limited ways. It doesn't follow logically that God is responsible for deaths/ bad things that happen.

The is no logic in religion whatsoever. You can view responses in this thread including the recent one to attempt to shut down discussion as disagreeing with a god bod might be seen as ‘offensive’. If you believe in God and looking to thank him for saving people, that he’s responsible for everything, he can take responsibility for covid, misery and deaths.

ELM327

wadacrack wrote: »

Just respect someone's beliefs. No Need to bring that up

God creates the virus
God's virus kills millions


God then mitigates the actions of the virus and is a hero?


LOL (replace God with yahweh, allah, buddha, whatever, this isnt a discrimination post)

Boggles

Fantastic, a debate about God.

I'm out of here.

Strumms

growleaves wrote: »

Some voices in the media and mainstream politics and on this site have called for years-long social distancing, and multiple years-long lockdowns. It may not happen but is wrong and dangerous to ask for this.

Meanwhile many of Catholic ‘faith’ are lobbying and have been going back weeks, to remove restrictions, open churches for regular services as the fate of the wellbeing and its citizens hung in the balance. It was more important to listen to the voices in their heads as opposed to expert medical and social advice available.

owlbethere

caveat emptor wrote: »

This would explain a lot. It has a fvcking invisibility cloak.

“ Coronavirus uses same strategy as HIV to dodge immune response, Chinese study finds”


https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3086177/coronavirus-uses-same-strategy-hiv-dodge-immune-response-chinese

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1265479011314139138?s=21

Thank you for this. Populations in the west have been sold the idea that this virus is a flu type of illness. I came around to the idea in the early days that this is not a flu. Its a new viral infection that can cause flu like symptoms. I came around to the idea that this is our generation of a new infectious disease like polio or measles.

The reason for the lockdowns around the world was to slow the spread of this new infection so that the science and medical professionals can catch up with this and try and understand it. Nobody should be in any rush out to resume what life was like before and go out in public and crowds of people. We should continue to be careful and cautious.

Widdensushi

Strumms wrote: »

Meanwhile many of Catholic ‘faith’ are lobbying and have been going back weeks, to remove restrictions, open churches for regular services as the fate of the wellbeing and its citizens hung in the balance. It was more important to listen to the voices in their heads as opposed to expert medical and social advice available.

No, like most businesses they want to start earning again

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

That's handy, he can take credit when it suits, but none of the blame. Sweet deal

It's more coherent than glomming assumptions from classical theology onto scriptures that don't mention them.

People who are upset by belief that an all-powerful God sanctions suffering and misery should be happy to be told there is a different way of thinking about it.

Personally I am sceptical of the cult that wants to subordinate all our lives to R numbers and which asserts a metaphysical belief in lockdown.

owlbethere

People have very little to worry about to get upset about Leo meeting his friends in the park. It looks as if they kept some distance away and who realistically carries a measure tape or metre stick to measure some metres? Just keep a reasonable distance away from people who are not in your household.

growleaves

Strumms wrote: »

Meanwhile many of Catholic ‘faith’ are lobbying and have been going back weeks, to remove restrictions, open churches for regular services as the fate of the wellbeing and its citizens hung in the balance. It was more important to listen to the voices in their heads as opposed to expert medical and social advice available.

Since you've put faith in quotation marks are you saying that these Catholics are really atheists, or that Catholicism is not a faith but a proven fact?

stephenjmcd

owlbethere wrote: »

Thank you for this. Populations in the west have been sold the idea that this virus is a flu type of illness. I came around to the idea in the early days that this is not a flu. Its a new viral infection that can cause flu like symptoms. I came around to the idea that this is our generation of a new infectious disease like polio or measles.

The reason for the lockdowns around the world was to slow the spread of this new infection so that the science and medical professionals can catch up with this and try and understand it. Nobody should be in any rush out to resume what life was like before and go out in public and crowds of people. We should continue to be careful and cautious.

Why are people still actually listening to this Eric lad, he's been called out by multiple academics on Twitter during this as basically being a spoofer. Hardly a reliable source for information

davedanon

growleaves wrote: »

False. Not getting into a theological debate but some Christians e.g. believe that God is not omnipotent but can influence the universe in positive but limited ways. It doesn't follow logically that God is responsible for deaths/ bad things that happen.

Sort of God-Lite, then?

Kermit.de.frog

South Korea reports 40 new cases, it's highest rise for 50 days, all but 4 in the capital.

Mexico has 501 deaths yesterday, a new record for them.

Brazil recorded over 1,000 new deaths yesterday and has been warned it's toll could rise 5 fold by August. Latin America is getting the full belt of COVID mixed with winter and is a worrying sign of what could happen in the northern hemisphere again in the Autumn. From Bolivia to Peru to Chile the situation is deteriorating quickly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52815845?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5ece04479893d70677f9880e%26Brazil%20death%20toll%20%27could%20increase%20five-fold%27%262020-05-27T08%3A16%3A22.812Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:54abbe44-aa0b-4da3-82ed-9874dc7961ef&pinned_post_asset_id=5ece04479893d70677f9880e&pinned_post_type=share

South Africa's surging cases also point to the seasonal migration the CDC has been warning about.

Positive news is that in Europe those countries that are trying to open still have the virus under control which will be a relief.

Rob A. Bank

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

A lot more than 40... But they have managed to stop the virus in it's tracks.

"After partiers with the coronavirus went to nightclubs, South Korea found and tested 46,000 exposed people.

More than 160 people tested positive and were isolated and treated accordingly.

By May 18, the country's new daily domestic cases had dropped back to nine."

https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-contact-tracing-helped-control-nightclub-outbreak-2020-5?r=US&IR=T

They do so through both tracing of people's movements and other personal data, and the apparent national attitude around not being responsible for harming someone else

Here if you were to base our national attitude on the posters in the relaxation of restrictions thread and some in this thread, we've a national fu*k everyone else attitude, I won't be tracked and I won't be controlled by a vaccine for a hoax pandemic according to the other fruitcakes on the internet.

caveat emptor

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Why are people still actually listening to this Eric lad, he's been called out by multiple academics on Twitter during this as basically being a spoofer. Hardly a reliable source for information

Yeah but he is not the source. The source is the study.

Here’s a different scientist and the link to the study.

Why do you dismiss something someone says or points you to because you essentially don’t like them. ‘He’s been called out?’

Like seriously major Chinese study finding this information. It isn’t peer reviewed so yeah it might turn out to be wrong.

Maybe god will make the study be wrong? Who knows? I don’t and you certainly don’t.

https://twitter.com/nanogenomic/status/1265409177855225860?s=21

owlbethere

owlbethere wrote: »

Thank you for this. Populations in the west have been sold the idea that this virus is a flu type of illness. I came around to the idea in the early days that this is not a flu. Its a new viral infection that can cause flu like symptoms. I came around to the idea that this is our generation of a new infectious disease like polio or measles.

The reason for the lockdowns around the world was to slow the spread of this new infection so that the science and medical professionals can catch up with this and try and understand it. Nobody should be in any rush out to resume what life was like before and go out in public and crowds of people. We should continue to be careful and cautious.

And realistic - we cannot maintain the enhanced level of restrictions we currently have, and continue to have a viable society. At some point we have to accept that we live with the virus, and that should be sooner rather than later. Monitor, control where possible, but move on

stephenjmcd

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah but he is not the source. The source is the study.

Here’s a different scientist and the link to the study.

Why do you dismiss something someone says or points you to because you essentially don’t like them. ‘He’s been called out?’

Like seriously major Chinese study finding this information. It isn’t peer reviewed so yeah it might turn out to be wrong.

Maybe god will make the study be wrong? Who knows? I don’t and you certainly don’t.

https://twitter.com/nanogenomic/status/1265409177855225860?s=21

Thanks, all well and good one study, lets see if its peer reviewed and backed up with further studies.

I'm sceptical of anything that comes from china for quite obvious reasons

owlbethere

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah but he is not the source. The source is the study.

Here’s a different scientist and the link to the study.

Why do you dismiss something someone says or points you to because you essentially don’t like them. ‘He’s been called out?’

Like seriously major Chinese study finding this information. It isn’t peer reviewed so yeah it might turn out to be wrong.

Maybe god will make the study be wrong? Who knows? I don’t and you certainly don’t.

https://twitter.com/nanogenomic/status/1265409177855225860?s=21

Some comments there in twitter saying the virus has potential to hide in cells like herpes. I suppose its still too early to go and establish that but still have to be careful going forward.

owlbethere

A hiv infection can cause a flu like illness in some people after exposure. Then other people don't show any flu like symptoms and can still have hiv. They can carry hiv with them for years and not know it and then it causes trouble in the body and aids.

With the recent reporting on the twitter, could this virus turn out to be the same? Some people are experiencing a long tail illness. Other people don't have any symptoms. Could asymptomatic people of this infection face a future with health problems from this virus?

caveat emptor

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Thanks, all well and good one study, lets see if its peer reviewed and backed up with further studies.

I'm sceptical of anything that comes from china for quite obvious reasons

Yeah fair one. I was sceptical to see stories of the Chinese ‘bat woman’ saying ‘there are much worse viruses to come’

What’s they are really saying indirectly is

- this virus was natural
- it didn’t get leaked from lab

The timing is also suspicious with the Australian researchers coming out and saying this virus is perfectly adapted to infect humans. I’m not convinced yet either. Why wouldn’t they just let the lab be audited ? Job done. Bearing in mind they were the only lab to be studying this specific kind etc.

I also see that with pandemic raging there’ll be no ‘Arab spring’ in Hong Kong or mainland China for some time.

growleaves

DubInMeath wrote: »

They do so through both tracing of people's movements and other personal data, and the apparent national attitude around not being responsible for harming someone else

Here if you were to base our national attitude on the posters in the relaxation of restrictions thread and some in this thread, we've a national fu*k everyone else attitude, I won't be tracked and I won't be controlled by a vaccine for a hoax pandemic according to the other fruitcakes on the internet.

I have a friend who is South Korean. They have sedition laws too, can get very heavy-handed. They have strike-breakers as well.

Ireland used to be regarded as qualitatively different to authoritarian societies. We're not peas in a pod with Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, China.

The CDC think the virus death rate may be as low, outside of nursing as homes, as 0.1 per cent. Yet you're clamouring for a totalitarian society of constant tracking of all people? Mad. Seems to be little desire to be free among people any more.

Do you want each individual monitored so we can track their CO2 emissions as well?

seamus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Brazil recorded over 1,000 new deaths yesterday and has been warned it's toll could rise 5 fold by August. Latin America is getting the full belt of COVID mixed with winter and is a worrying sign of what could happen in the northern hemisphere again in the Autumn. From Bolivia to Peru to Chile the situation is deteriorating quickly.

South America is unfortunately going to be a mess because of the psycho in Brazil. They're all relatively poor countries who would have difficulty dealing with the situation anyway. But the largest country in the region, which also happens to be right in the middle and borders nearly all of them, is doing absolutely nothing to try and stem the virus. Because its leader is using it to kill off the poor.

So unless the rest of S.A. close their borders, they haven't a hope of keeping it at bay. But they probably don't have the resources to do that effectively.

South Africa's surging cases also point to the seasonal migration the CDC has been warning about.

South Africa is very complicated. The wealth divide is off the charts, and their health system is a bit like if the HSE was being run by Americans. Their public system has 90% of the patients and 20% of the doctors.

It's almost like two distinct countries; wealthy South Africa will deal with the virus no problem, poor South Africa is completely unprepared for it.

There's not really enough data at the moment to establish a Winter/Summer narrative around outbreaks. There may certainly be a level of correlation; as in it started in Europe in Spring and is declining as Summer approaches, while increasing in the Southern Hemisphere as Winter approaches.

But there are also other factors, distance being a big one. The outbreak started in places close to eachother (and/or that see a lot of travel) and has taken time to reach further away regions.

Australia and New Zealand may to a certain extent be good barometers in this respect. If they manage to keep a lid on it into Winter, then we know that even if there is a seasonal aspect to it, that public health measures work to suppress it. But if they lose control despite public health measures, then we need to consider a different approach.

Onesea

Over the next two weeks expect to see a stack of airlines go belly up. Mainly the larger legacy airlines.

bb1234567

Hector Savage wrote: »

Concerning here in Spain, bars are open to reduced capacity, but terraces seem packed, I have seen bars down by the beach and terraces packed - tables not spaced out or every 2nd one empty either .

It's funny everyone walking on the street is wearing a mask then they sit down in big groups with no masks on a patio and have beers ....

Also the active cases are rising again, they were on a downward trend for weeks now .... a bit worrying ...





https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

I think that it would take another while for eased restrictions to have a noticeable impact on case numbers ?

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

I have a friend who is South Korean. They have sedition laws too, can get very heavy-handed. They have strike-breakers as well.

Ireland used to be regarded as qualitatively different to authoritarian societies. We're not peas in a pod with Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, China.

The CDC think the virus death rate may be as low, outside of nursing as homes, as 0.1 per cent. Yet you're clamouring for a totalitarian society of constant tracking of all people? Mad. Seems to be little desire to be free among people any more.

Do you want each individual monitored so we can track their CO2 emissions as well?

What has C02 emissions got to do with covid?

As for clamouring for a totalitarian society, well done on missing the context, but not surprised.

caveat emptor

Here's a study on Epidemiologic Clues to Bioterrorism. It's appearing increasingly likely we are living through another Cold War. Countries involved spend billions annually on this capability. The features of this disease are very suspicious.

The features of naturally occurring outbreaks have a certain amount of predictability in terms of consistency with previous occurrences, or at least biological plausibility.
However, with a deliberately introduced outbreak or infection among a population, this predictability is minimized.
In this paper, the authors propose some epidemiologic clues that highlight features of outbreaks that may be suggestive of bioterrorism.
They also describe briefly the general process of involvement of agencies at various levels of government, public health and non-public health,
depending on the extent of an outbreak or level of suspicion.

I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
Harry Emerson Fosdick

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497515/pdf/12690063.pdf



More general info on this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_warfare#cite_note-80

owlbethere

Deleted User wrote: »

And realistic - we cannot maintain the enhanced level of restrictions we currently have, and continue to have a viable society. At some point we have to accept that we live with the virus, and that should be sooner rather than later. Monitor, control where possible, but move on

Yeah, we might as well be a realistic as possible. A suggestion that was put out was to section off society. Keep older people cocooned and send the younger adults out the door to work.


Fcuk that sh1te down to the ground. Our government can go royally Fcuk themselves if that's the road they will send us on. Send the young adults out the door to work to face disease and to earn a wage that doesn't pay a rent or a mortgage. Fcuk that sh1te.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

South Korea reports 40 new cases, it's highest rise for 50 days, all but 4 in the capital.

Mexico has 501 deaths yesterday, a new record for them.

Brazil recorded over 1,000 new deaths yesterday and has been warned it's toll could rise 5 fold by August. Latin America is getting the full belt of COVID mixed with winter and is a worrying sign of what could happen in the northern hemisphere again in the Autumn. From Bolivia to Peru to Chile the situation is deteriorating quickly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52815845?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5ece04479893d70677f9880e%26Brazil%20death%20toll%20%27could%20increase%20five-fold%27%262020-05-27T08%3A16%3A22.812Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:54abbe44-aa0b-4da3-82ed-9874dc7961ef&pinned_post_asset_id=5ece04479893d70677f9880e&pinned_post_type=share

South Africa's surging cases also point to the seasonal migration the CDC has been warning about.

Positive news is that in Europe those countries that are trying to open still have the virus under control which will be a relief.

Why would seasonality of virus outbreaks in equatorial regions follow those in temperate climates?

weldoninhio

Boggles wrote: »

We ain't Denmark.

They were first to close up.

They have 40% of our cases and a third of our deaths.

They just did it better then everyone else and continue to do so.

One very simple example of what they did was increase the volume of buses and trains when everyone else was decreasing them.

There is a reason Denmark is considered one of the best countries in the world to live.

But in terms of this virus, they also have this.

Statens Serum Institut

A world class well funded infectious disease institute that is 120 years old.

The virus does't recognise countries or borders. The virus doesn't decide to be more contagious in one country. The fact is our R0 is lower than Denmarks.