Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

ACitizenErased

Interesting things to note after Stephen posted the ICU numbers on here last night:
1) CMO said 5 admissions but I think the total number in ICU decreased by 1? It seems to be 1 in 1 out atm.
2) Out of 48 cases in ICU 32 are being ventilated. This means that literally only the most serious are in ICU, and it’s likely they’ve been there for a while.

I don’t see the worry the CMO is on about.

An Ciarraioch

The recovery numbers have finally been updated, so as of now, we have just over 1,000 active cases, down from 1,600 last week. Of course, complete elimination will be impossible as long as there are some daily positives, but difficult to see what would cause a spike before the opening of high streets in Phase 3.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Interesting things to note after Stephen posted the ICU numbers on here last night:
1) CMO said 5 admissions but I think the total number in ICU decreased by 1? It seems to be 1 in 1 out atm.
2) Out of 48 cases in ICU 32 are being ventilated. This means that literally only the most serious are in ICU, and it’s likely they’ve been there for a while.

I don’t see the worry the CMO is on about.

Yeah I was expecting a jump in ICU numbers after what he said. It's still at 48 for the day as it was 24hrs previously too, so long as it didn't rise exponential I wouldn't see that as a concern

Plumbthedepths

Uriel. wrote: »

How am I trying change the narrative?
So you're saying these private businesses who were paid and legally obliged to care for their residents have no responsibility?

The NHI asked for help repeatedly.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0526/1141575-nursing-homes/

blade1

stephenjmcd wrote: »

For the love of god, again...

Your signing a form telling them where your located in Ireland and where your coming from. I've seen the form, your not signing anything to say you'll be self isolating because it's not allowed under law.

It's a form with your details and your address, that's it.

There's fcuk all they can do if they check in and your not there. The gardai also dont have the resources to go around checking, it'll be a phone call if anything.

Again I'll repeat your not signing any form to say your self isolating, your giving your details, where you've come from and where you'll be residing in the country, that's it. Your declaring nothing about self isolating, it would need a completely different law.

It's not difficult to understand

Waste of paper/ink so?

Gregor Samsa

stephenjmcd wrote: »

For the love of god, again...

Your signing a form telling them where your located in Ireland and where your coming from. I've seen the form, your not signing anything to say you'll be self isolating because it's not allowed under law.

It's a form with your details and your address, that's it.

There's fcuk all they can do if they check in and your not there. The gardai also dont have the resources to go around checking, it'll be a phone call if anything.

Again I'll repeat your not signing any form to say your self isolating, your giving your details, where you've come from and where you'll be residing in the country, that's it. Your declaring nothing about self isolating, it would need a completely different law.

It's not difficult to understand

Just for full clarity, here's the form:

https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/coronavirus/covid-19-public-health-passenger-locator-form.pdf

it says:

All passengers arriving to Ireland from overseas are expected to self-isolate for 14 days on entry into the state. Self-isolation means staying indoors and completely avoiding contact with other people. This applies to all passengers, regardless of which country you have travelled from or your country of citizenship (i.e. including Irish citizens). You may be contacted during the 14 days following your arrival in Ireland to verify that you are self-isolating.

Further on down, there's a section about exemptions to self-isolating, and a section to claim under those exceptions.

I'm not sure if your argument hinges on the word "declaring" or not (the form does not use the word), but the form clearly does state that you're expected to self-isolate for 14 days, and that this can be checked up on. There's no mention of penalties for failing to do so.

Plumbthedepths

Eod100 wrote: »

Yeah Harris was asked on Prime Time the other night and said its difficult legally to make it mandatory but they're working on it apparently. A bit late in the day I think. Only real way would be by taking over airports at hotel and using them but not sure there'd be enough rooms and whether you'd legally be able to control people's movement like that.

It might interfere with free movement of people from EU say, not sure if public health law would be strong enough to allow it.

We didn't declare an emergency, so the horse has bolted. The quarantine is window dressing nothing more.

stephenjmcd

blade1 wrote: »

Waste of paper/ink so?

Yes and no.

If there was a reported case on a flight or somewhere in the airport then they've all your details there at hand for public health to get in touch.

Apart from that it's fairly pointless at this stage. Would have been more useful at the start

stephenjmcd

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Here's the form:

https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/coronavirus/covid-19-public-health-passenger-locator-form.pdf

it says:

Expected to isolate... no requirement, up to each person.

Mandatory quarantine is unenforceable under legislation and theres absolutely nothing that they can do to make sure you stay at home for 14 days.

"The minister also said earlier this week that while it is mandatory to fill out the form, making it mandatory for people to complete self-isolation is "tricky, legally".

Micky 32

blade1 wrote: »

Waste of paper/ink so?

Not really because if you get the virus from travelling they would be able to trace it to you if a cluster broke out and get it under control quicker, it’s mainly for contact tracing.

Gregor Samsa

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Expected to isolate... no requirement, up to each person.

Mandatory quarantine is unenforceable under legislation.

"The minister also said earlier this week that while it is mandatory to fill out the form, making it mandatory for people to complete self-isolation is "tricky, legally".

Yeah, but you're giving the impression that the form just asks for your name and address. It goes a bit further than that in specifically mentioning self isolation and the prospect of being checked up on. Just posted it for full clarity so people can make up their own minds from the source, as opposed to people's interpretations. I'm not claiming that it enforces quarantine.

Micky 32

Looking at the form you have to tick a box if you’re exempt from “isollating”. I’m curious why that would be there if isolating isn’t even law.

Drumpot

stephenjmcd wrote: »

For the love of god, again...

Your signing a form telling them where your located in Ireland and where your coming from. I've seen the form, your not signing anything to say you'll be self isolating because it's not allowed under law.

It's a form with your details and your address, that's it.

There's fcuk all they can do if they check in and your not there. The gardai also dont have the resources to go around checking, it'll be a phone call if anything.

Again I'll repeat your not signing any form to say your self isolating, your giving your details, where you've come from and where you'll be residing in the country, that's it. Your declaring nothing about self isolating, it would need a completely different law.

It's not difficult to understand

We can all read the form https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/coronavirus/covid-19-passenger-locator-form.pdf

It effectively does the same job because if I’m reading that form before going to a country I’m asking the questions the I posted. I’m asking what this means:

• A member of An Garda Síochána who suspects that an offence has been committed may demand the name and address of the person who is suspected of committing the offence. Failure to comply with this demand or the production of a false name and/or address is an offence for which a person may be arrested.

If you are a Traveller to Ireland and you Check https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html

Arriving to Ireland from another country

By law, if you arrive in Ireland from any other country you will need to fill in a form called the Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form. You'll also be asked to self-isolate for 14 days.

Most people won’t be comforted by ˋit’s not really possible to be fined or sent to jail´ If you don’t self isolate . For most people if it floats, looks and sounds like a duck even if it’s technically not a duck, it’s a duck.

An Ciarraioch

As for the panic about arrivals at the airports, the CSO have released the air and sea travel stats for April, and numbers have declined by 99%, from 1.7m in 2019, to 16,000 in 2020 - an average of 520 per day between all airports, presumably virtually all Irish:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ast/airandseatravelstatisticsapril2020/

Even then, air only accounts for 12,000 passengers, or 400 per day.

MerlinSouthDub

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Interesting things to note after Stephen posted the ICU numbers on here last night:
1) CMO said 5 admissions but I think the total number in ICU decreased by 1? It seems to be 1 in 1 out atm.
2) Out of 48 cases in ICU 32 are being ventilated. This means that literally only the most serious are in ICU, and it’s likely they’ve been there for a while.

I don’t see the worry the CMO is on about.

Yep, there doesn't appear to be any substance to the worry he expressed yesterday. He just likes trying to scare us I think.

owlbethere

Did the ESRI look into the lockdown/restrictions and establish its causing misery for the vast majority of the population? What were their findings?

stephenjmcd

Drumpot wrote: »

We can all read the form https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/coronavirus/covid-19-passenger-locator-form.pdf

It effectively does the same job because if I’m reading that form before going to a country I’m asking the questions the I posted. I’m asking what this means:

• A member of An Garda Síochána who suspects that an offence has been committed may demand the name and address of the person who is suspected of committing the offence. Failure to comply with this demand or the production of a false name and/or address is an offence for which a person may be arrested.

If you are a Traveller to Ireland and you Check https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html

Arriving to Ireland from another country

By law, if you arrive in Ireland from any other country you will need to fill in a form called the Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form. You'll also be asked to self-isolate for 14 days.

Most people won’t be comforted by ˋit’s not really possible to be fined or sent to jail´ If you don’t self isolate . For most people It floats, looks and sounds like a duck even if it’s technically not a duck.

Grand suit yourself I'm finished explaining it.

There is nothing to stop someone coming into the country filling in the form and going out day to day about their business.

It is not an offense to not self isolate. You being asked not mandated.

Read it whatever you want those are the facts of it

Gregor Samsa

owlbethere wrote: »

Did the ESRI look into the lockdown/restrictions and establish its causing misery for the vast majority of the population? What were their findings?

That's a loaded question if ever I saw one

A quick look at esri.ie reveals that they published this today:

https://www.esri.ie/news/irish-economy-faces-largest-recession-in-history-as-lockdown-takes-its-toll

fr336

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

As for the panic about arrivals at the airports, the CSO have released the air and sea travel stats for April, and numbers have declined by 99%, from 1.7m in 2019, to 16,000 in 2020 - an average of 520 per day between all airports, presumably virtually all Irish:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ast/airandseatravelstatisticsapril2020/

Even then, air only accounts for 12,000 passengers, or 400 per day.

They declined by 99% because the airlines cancelled 99% of flights due to a national lockdown. And even if they hadn't people would have found it hard to get out of their own country due to worldwide lockdowns.

GazzaL

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Expected to isolate... no requirement, up to each person.

Mandatory quarantine is unenforceable under legislation and theres absolutely nothing that they can do to make sure you stay at home for 14 days.

"The minister also said earlier this week that while it is mandatory to fill out the form, making it mandatory for people to complete self-isolation is "tricky, legally".

If you are transiting to the North, what's the point in filling out the address then?

The whole thing is a big "**** YOU" to tourism and business.

Drumpot

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Grand suit yourself I'm finished explaining it.

There is nothing to stop someone coming into the country filling in the form and going out day to day about their business.

It is not an offense to not self isolate.

Read it whatever you want those are the facts of it

You don’t need to explain it, just understand that most will interpret it that you might get fined if you don’t isolate When you come here. Why people would want to goto another country and Belligerently not do what it’s authority’s are asking ( self isolate) is another thing.

Micky 32

Drumpot wrote: »

We can all read the form https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/coronavirus/covid-19-passenger-locator-form.pdf

It effectively does the same job because if I’m reading that form before going to a country I’m asking the questions the I posted. I’m asking what this means:

• A member of An Garda Síochána who suspects that an offence has been committed may demand the name and address of the person who is suspected of committing the offence. Failure to comply with this demand or the production of a false name and/or address is an offence for which a person may be arrested.
.

That’s for not signing the locator form or giving false info.

Plumbthedepths

GazzaL wrote: »

The whole thing is a big "**** YOU" to tourism and business.

It will be dropped before the end of Summer, when commonsense makes an appearance again.

stephenjmcd

Drumpot wrote: »

You don’t need to explain it, just understand that most will interpret it that you might get fined if you don’t isolate When you come here. Why people would want to goto another country and Belligerently not do what it’s authority’s are asking ( self isolate) is another thing.

Well I did need to explain it as you were saying it was mandatory

Drumpot

Micky 32 wrote: »

That’s for not signing the locator form or giving false info.

But that’s how most will read it. I get what Stephen is saying, some of you don’t seem to get that it doesn’t matter if it’s not law if most people aren’t sure. Reading that form alone is daunting.

Most people follow the laws and guidelines. The only reason this may need to be made law is for the few c^nts who think they should be able to do what they want and will ruin it for everyone else to suit themselves.

stephenjmcd

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It will be dropped before the end of Summer, when commonsense makes an appearance again.

It lapses on 18th June. Could potentially be a new government by then.

With European countries gearing towards the 15th for a restart of travel and a sense of come July most countries will be open for business then it won't last long here

stephenjmcd

Drumpot wrote: »

But that’s how most will read it. I get what Stephen is saying, some of you don’t seem to get that it doesn’t matter if it’s not law if most people aren’t sure. Reading that form alone is daunting.

Most people follow the laws and guidelines. The only reason this may need to be made law is for the few c^nts who think they should be able to do what they want and will ruin it for everyone else to suit themselves.

Yes reading the form would be daunting, but outside of a contact tracing use it's quite pointless at the moment.

Would have been handy to have it back in March.

But it's like saying law at the moment is dont go beyond 5k, that's openly being flouted.

Drumpot

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well I did need to explain it as you were saying it was mandatory

That’s fair, but most people will read it like I did. That was the Irish times, not a rag paper and i thought the signing and isolating were linked.

Plumbthedepths

Drumpot wrote: »

But that’s how most will read it. I get what Stephen is saying, some of you don’t seem to get that it doesn’t matter if it’s not law if most people aren’t sure. Reading that form alone is daunting.

Most people follow the laws and guidelines. The only reason this may need to be made law is for the few c^nts who think they should be able to do what they want and will ruin it for everyone else to suit themselves.

They won't be able to make it law, as it contravenes the freedom of movement , an EU law. Even Harris knows this.

stephenjmcd

Drumpot wrote: »

That’s fair, but most people will read it like I did. That was the Irish times, not a rag paper and i thought the signing and isolating were linked.

No worries and I can see how most people will take it as that