Employer not reopening locker rooms after COVID

manlad

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There is no Government advice to close shower rooms. How does closing the shower room reduce spread? If he now spends 10 minutes at the bathroom sink with baby wipes, is that better or worse for reducing spread? If he spends five minutes in a toilet cubicle, brushing off the sides of the cubicle and the toilet seat, is that better or worse for reducing spread?

What's happened here is that someone who doesn't cycle or run or use the shower room made a quick and easy decision without thinking it through.

Staying fit and healthy is an important factor in ensuring the population at large can fight off infection when it does hit. The ability to build exercise into your daily commute is an important factor in staying fit and healthy. Suck that up.

Unfortunately some people treat showers like toilet bowls. Closing them reduces any additional risks as that is all that can be done. Its an added risk, an additional place for a virus to spread easier. They are not critical spaces right now and most companies globally have take this approach.

TheBoyConor

CramCycle wrote: »

Just to throw a spanner in the works, some of us sweat profusely doing SFA, it is just the way some of us operate.

Well then they need to see a doctor about it. That is a medical condition.

I know a fella like that. A fit enough guy, not a slouch by any means. Any activity that takes any more effort than an leisurly stroll and the sweat would be literally pissing out through him as if he had a pint of water thrown at him.

Unfortunately some people treat showers like toilet bowls. Closing them reduces any additional risks as that is all that can be done. Its an added risk, an additional place for a virus to spread easier. They are not critical spaces right now and most companies globally have take this approach.

You are right unfortunately. I experienced a "waffle stomper" before it was ever a meme or thing. I remember being in a shower cubicle and getting the distinct smell of **** wafting over from the line of cubicles. It being a place that involved a lot of mud and dirt I considered it might just be that until I then noticed a few fragments of what was clearly shít running into the aco-drain that was running along the wall along the back of the line of shower cubicles.

blackbox

CramCycle wrote: »

Just to throw a spanner in the works, some of us sweat profusely doing SFA, it is just the way some of us operate.

So nothing to do with cycling...

plodder

What people seem oblivious to is that years ago, I'm talking 40/50/60 years ago vast throngs of people cycled and walked to work. Very very few of them had showers or any sort of fancy facility of any kind.

Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE

CramCycle

blackbox wrote: »

So nothing to do with cycling...

Well, cycling is not everyones normal mode of exercise. I can tip along at a fair auld pace and not sweat a drop but someone who doesn;'t use those muscle groups regularly might find even moderate / low levels of cycling sweat inducing. It may be a few weeks of commuting before this changees, so, something to do with cycling.

Is it really that hard to imagine some people sweat when not puttnig in a hard effort. What about summer time, minimal effort on a warm day will cause sweating, even while walking.

Personally i don't care, I shower in the evenings and mornings, rarely needed a shower at work. On those days I could use tissue and deodorant, but all in all its not a necessity for me. Some people might want one though, even if they take all the tiem in the world on the way in. For some their bag on their back will cause sweating while cycling.

magicbastarder

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I know a fella like that. A fit enough guy, not a slouch by any means. Any activity that takes any more effort than an leisurly stroll and the sweat would be literally pissing out through him as if he had a pint of water thrown at him.

it's not a member of the royal family, by any chance?

magicbastarder

CramCycle wrote: »

What about summer time, minimal effort on a warm day will cause sweating, even while walking.

for me, i suspect i'd need to keep it below 15km/h on a warm day to not sweat.

that said, these are unusual times, and whether showers in workplaces should be open is not everyone's highest priority, unsurprisingly.
i know if i was using a shower and then later found that someone who had been in the contagious phase of covid19, had used it just before me, i'd not be comfortable at all.

out of curiosity, is it in building regs now, or possibly standard architectural practice, to include showers by default in new office builds?
our building was completed i think 18 years ago and the shower facilities are good and in the original build. a bike cage was put in on day one also, but the drying room was a later addition - though probably 10 years ago. it's a large office building to be fair, probably with a capacity for one and a half thousand people.

Hurrache

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Op, there's thousands out of work right now. They'd gladly take your job and your salary. They wouldn't care about having some shower room and they'd laugh at you.

Realise this is nothing.

What a dumb argument. Sure he should be thankful he even has legs.

CramCycle

Hurrache wrote: »

What a dumb argument. Sure he should be thankful he even has legs.

Indeed, nothing like an impending recession to bring out the race to the bottom types. I can't wait for the employers reps to come out saying minimum wage is holding us back, people should be glad to have a job at all type posts.

AndrewJRenko

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Well said.
Topped off brilliantly by the ever true inconvenient.

Op, there's thousands out of work right now. They'd gladly take your job and your salary. They wouldn't care about having some shower room and they'd laugh at you.

Realise this is nothing.

Ah sure, what about the poor starving babies in Africa who'd gladly take the dole from those thousands out of work? Are we really going to play the 'luxury' game to show who's worst off? It really has nothing to do with the issue in hand.

P_1 wrote: »

Panier rack and keep it around 20kph, no sweat and you'll still get in there quicker than you would driving. If we want to get a proper cycling culture we should look to what the Danes and Dutch do.

Essentially a road bike is like a sportscar, most societies don't cater for sportscars. There's more to life than going fast ��

People are different. I sweat walking up two flights of stairs. What works for you doesn't work for everybody. Stop designing for yourself - design for everybody.

EC1000 wrote: »

Ah here! Whatever about using facilities and wiping surfaces after you use them, you cannot expect your employer to solve the issue of you drying your sweaty gear.

In previous work places where I used communal showers, the stench of other people's gear drying in the changing rooms was always a major turn off.

If you are going to use communal areas, there should be a "leave no trace" policy when you are finished.

Really? Employers can't be expected to provide drying space?

You might want to tell those companies who design, build and sell products designed to do exactly this
https://total-locker-service.com/Heated-locker.php
Presumably they managed to find a market of employers who realise it is to their benefit to support their staff to stay fit and healthy.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

What people seem oblivious to is that years ago, I'm talking 40/50/60 years ago vast throngs of people cycled and walked to work. Very very few of them had showers or any sort of fancy facility of any kind. But they just got on with it without complaining. It wasn't looked upon as the trendy way of eco-hipsters or athletes keeping records of their weekly athletic performance statistics - it was just what had to be done if you wanted to be able to eat a dinner that evening.

If you have 20km to go, why does it have to be a sweaty frenzy. It is only a sweaty affair if you make it one. Could you not just leave 15 or 20 minutes earlier and go at a more relaxed pace so you don't be dripping in sweat when you get in? Bear in mind that not having to take a shower would mostly make up for the longer cycle time owing ot going at a slower rate. Wear light clothing also so you avoid sweating and are kept chilled by the air flow.

You should be making a distinction between functional cycling to get work and athletic cycling as exercise.

I cycle to and from work most days. On the way in I take it nice and handy so I am not sweaty. Sometimes when I go home I go faster because I don't mind being sweaty when I get home and I can take a shower at my leisure.

People don't know how handy they have it nowadays, even considering covid. If you were alive in the 1950s you'd know all about it with TB rampant around the country. I suggest you check yourself.

They didn't have flush toilets in most houses in the 1950s, so presumably you're happy to give up your loo and go dig a hole in your garden instead?
Again, just because you choose not to use these facilities does not mean they are important for other people.

manlad wrote: »

Unfortunately some people treat showers like toilet bowls. Closing them reduces any additional risks as that is all that can be done. Its an added risk, an additional place for a virus to spread easier. They are not critical spaces right now and most companies globally have take this approach.

They are absolutely critical if you want to keep people off public transport.

Macy0161

I would think there's far more risk to the OP, and therefore his work colleagues, if he was forced onto public transport rather than from the shower room.

I'm not aware of evidence that showers are particularly rampant at spreading covid19, and they would certainly better for general hygiene than the toilet cubicle anyway.

tbh the criticism just seems like another angle to have a go at people who cycle.

magicbastarder

i wouldn't say that. i'd say it's just purely risk aversion. note that the gyms are not reopening either, it's not just cyclists who have their access to some workplace facilities curtailed.
they just don't want transmission taking place on the premises, and since it's unknown whether it's possible in that context (yes, there's no evidence that showers are a particularly rampant context for transmission, but that's because there's probably no evidence either way), so they're playing it safe.

forcing staff onto public transport may in theory be increasing the risk - we don't know - but the key thing is that if it does, it's happening on someone else's property. it's a pontius pilate (pun intended) from the employer, if you look a it cynically (as you might have good cause to)

YakerK

There is a big difference between a gym and shower facilities though. One is purely a luxury item for recreation, the other is to allow people to get to work. It may also serve to facilitate recreation, but it's primary purpose is to facilitate getting to work in what (as a few have pointed out) is a much less likely means to spread Covid than alternative.

Daroxtar

OK, The virus is spread through exhaled water droplets. The shower is 5 minutes of you breathing, snorting, spluttering and whatever else you do in there with steam swirling and spreading all around the bathroom area. Do you think your capacity as an asymptomatic carrier to pass the virus to your colleagues is in anyway increased by using a shower in your office?

YakerK

Daroxtar wrote: »

OK, The virus is spread through exhaled water droplets. The shower is 5 minutes of you breathing, snorting, spluttering and whatever else you do in there with steam swirling and spreading all around the bathroom area. Do you think your capacity as an asymptomatic carrier to pass the virus to your colleagues is in anyway increased by using a shower in your office?

I'm not sure why you think that people spend their time in shower snorting and spluttering. Quite bizarre.

You've also just made up conditions that you think would spread the virus which have no basis. The steam from the shower is not the same as the exhaled water droplets that spreed the virus.

If anything the hot and humid condition of a shower may help limit the virus spreading (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(20)30106-6/fulltext) as does the fact that washing is well known as one of the most important ways of slowing/preventing spread.

So I think if anything ones ability to spread virus is likely decreased by using a shower in the office.

Daroxtar

YakerK wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think that people spend their time in shower snorting and spluttering. Quite bizarre.

You've also just made up conditions that you think would spread the virus which have no basis. The steam from the shower is not the same as the exhaled water droplets that spreed the virus.

If anything the hot and humid condition of a shower may help limit the virus spreading (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(20)30106-6/fulltext) as does the fact that washing is well known as one of the most important ways of slowing/preventing spread.

So I think if anything ones ability to spread virus is likely decreased by using a shower in the office.

So are you saying there's no such thing as convection or expired moisture droplet dispersion? You also believe nobody has ever coughed, cleared their throat or exhaled while in the shower, especially after being out on the bike? Now that's really bizarre.

YakerK

Daroxtar wrote: »

So are you saying there's no such thing as convection or expired moisture droplet dispersion? You also believe nobody has ever coughed, cleared their throat or exhaled while in the shower, especially after being out on the bike? Now that's really bizarre.

I'm saying there's absolutely no evidence at all that the scenario is in anyway likely to spread Coronavirus and some evidence to suggest that it may inhibit its spread.

You've just made up this to suggest showers as dangerous and introduced a coughing, snorting, spluttering cyclist into a shower as a strawman.

CapnHex

I'm not back in the office yet, and won't be until June at the earliest. I hadn't considered that the showers and lockerroom might be off limits. I was looking forward to my commute again, rather than the extra hour in bed! Generally, I like to shower in work, but others with similar commutes just use deodorant, so I guess I could get away with it. It's the helmet hair that might be hard to live with. Is there an adult equivalent to baby wipes, maybe the water wipes are less scented? My real problem is that I need a proper office chair for working from home.

Daroxtar

YakerK wrote: »

I'm saying there's absolutely no evidence at all that the scenario is in anyway likely to spread Coronavirus and some evidence to suggest that it may inhibit its spread.

You've just made up this to suggest showers as dangerous and introduced a coughing, snorting, spluttering cyclist into a shower as a strawman.

I made up convection and expired moisture droplet dispersion and the prospect of coughing or exhalition in a shower to suit my own agenda.

Good lad.

Going back to an earlier point, in 25 years working on construction I've been on approximately 3, possibly 4, sites that had shower facilities.
Last week I did the online Covid induction course necessary to return to work in construction.
Guess what?
At the end of the day you are to remove work clothes, change into your other clothes, go home and wash your work clothes and then shower AT HOME to help prevent the spread of coronavirus. I'll take my advice from the professionals, not someone who is clearly irked at the prospect of not having a shower at work.

Biker79

@AndrewJRenko - I see from your typical Bolshevik propaganda that the virus hasn't beaten you yet.

plodder

Maybe showers at work could be used so long as there's no more coughing, spluttering or breathing than in the rest of the office. Would that work?

I'd accept construction sites are obviously different, and it's not the practice for construction workers to shower on site (for obvious reasons).

magicbastarder

i'm used to taking cold showers after my spin into work, but if you're the type who favours hot showers, is steam not an expectorant?

and what weepsie said.

Lumen

I see the multinationals are continuing to suck the entitled snowflakes out of the employment pool.

Very public spirited of them! :pac:

plodder

Weepsie wrote: »

It's an extra area to clean, and it will have to be cleaned with even greater regularity as you can near guarantee people are not going to clean a shower area after themselves because

(A) they want to dry and change
(B) they've changed already and don't want to go back in to clean.
(C)they think it's someone else's responsibility to clean after them regardless of the circumstances

What I suggested was that people could spray down surfaces they are using before or after using them. Before probably makes more sense. I don't see why a shower area itself needs to be cleaned more than usual though. With all the soapy water sloshing around, it's probably the safest place in the building.

Biker79

Lumen wrote: »

I see the multinationals are continuing to suck the entitled snowflakes out of the employment pool.

Very public spirited of them! :pac:

In wish they would ' suck off ' to Siberia for some self isolation.

Preferably with no internet access :pac:

EC1000

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Really? Employers can't be expected to provide drying space?

You might want to tell those companies who design, build and sell products designed to do exactly this
https://total-locker-service.com/Heated-locker.php
Presumably they managed to find a market of employers who realise it is to their benefit to support their staff to stay fit and healthy.

You seem to suggest that I am in disagreement with you - quite the contrary. I'd take every car out of our towns and city centres if I could! However, the OP needs to pick his battles and I would suggest that this is not the time to ask an employer to start forking out for new equipment. Nothing to stop him/her from bringing spare gear for the journey home for the moment.

AndrewJRenko

EC1000 wrote: »

You seem to suggest that I am in disagreement with you - quite the contrary. I'd take every car out of our towns and city centres if I could! However, the OP needs to pick his battles and I would suggest that this is not the time to ask an employer to start forking out for new equipment. Nothing to stop him/her from bringing spare gear for the journey home for the moment.

Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick. I'd broadly agree with you that this isn't the time to be asking for more stuff.

Drying space isn't that unusual, and doesn't have to be fancy lockers. It is really just space to hang wet stuff, whether raingear or a used towel so that it can dry out. It's crazy to have cyclists and runners required to bring the same soggy wet towel home every day. A bit of drying space makes far more sense.

magicbastarder

worth a mention that in our place, in order to build the drying/storage room (used by cyclists, runners, and motorcyclists) required sacrificing maybe 4 or 5 parking spaces. typically, i'd have seen maybe 60 bikes in the bike cage during the day last summer, and i don't know how many people came in on motorbikes, but my assumption is that the loss of 5 parking spaces was easily offset by the extra people using alternatives to get into the building.

it has to be pointed out though, that our building is 200m from a luas stop, so many people use public transport to get in too.

ED E

Bike cages/sheds are gonna be SOOOOO oversubscribed when things open up again.