Employer not reopening locker rooms after COVID

cletus

YakerK wrote: »

Some peoples hygiene standards obviously differ from mine! I've never had a workplace without shower facilities. My line of work has me moving between different companies' offices fairly regularly so I've seen my fair share of offices and I cycle in mostly and never had one that didn't have facilities. In my student days I previously worked on large farms and in retail and they always had also. Anyone I know who cycles or runs to work have shower and changing facilities. The quality varies, but 100% of workplaces I've worked had something, so certainly not a minority of places in my experience.

Not the point of this conversation though, I don't think the OPs request is in anyway unreasonable, and notwithstanding why they need to go in, I'd say it's a basic request and requirement for a workplace and with some accommodation on side of both the employer and employee (such as putting in place a queuing system and abiding by that), I can't see how this is a problem for any reasonable employer to facilitate.

You've been very lucky with your workplaces so.

Having worked in a variety of positions in a variety of industries, only two places have had showers, one of those is where I work now, and it has one shower cubicle for almost 100 members of staff.

The other was when I worked as a fitness instructor, so by default there were showers and changing rooms, bit that was a function of the business, rather than something supplied by the company for employees.

Hurrache

The only places I've worked in without showers were retail. All offices I've been in have had them. Not all initially but at least one installed one after requests by staff. In that place the cleaners started using the shower cubicle itself to store their boxes of toilet rolls, paper towels cleaning fluids etc and no matter how many times they returned in the evening to find them tossed out over the floor in the changing area they still never got the message not to do it.

plodder

Del2005 wrote: »

How do you propose that they sanitize the changing room between people? Its not just social distancing that a company has to implement its also enhanced cleaning of communal spaces and that will be difficult in most companies with showers.

Fair question, but what will companies do about toilet bowls for instance? There isn't likely to be any guarantee of enhanced cleaning there. Whatever cleaning is required could just be a quick spray of some cleaning agent and a wipedown by users themselves before or after use. I don't see why same can't be done in changing rooms.

The alternative for some people is going to be public transport, which could be even riskier.

Though I suspect the places with the best facilities are often the places best setup for work at home. I don't expect to be going back to the office for many months, so it's probably moot in my case.

magicbastarder

plodder wrote: »

Fair question, but what will companies do about toilet bowls for instance?

i suspect toilet bowls are not the problem. i'm not worried about catching something off a toilet bowl if it's not cleaned after someone else has used and flushed it; from what little i understand of this pox is that it'd be shared surfaces (door handles, loo handles, etc.) that everyone has to manhandle, which would be of greater concern.
i don't know if any research has been done into whether this thing is excreted in sweat. that'd be an interesting thing to learn.

Mercian Pro

From Professor Cormican, the HSE Lead on Infection Control:
Can the virus be transmitted through sweat?
We do not see sweat as important in terms of virus spread, to any significant degree. This virus is spread through touch and secretions from your eyes, nose and mouth. The biggest risk in a gym is probably through contact and touching surfaces.

blackbox

When I was younger I used to cycle to work in my work clothes.

I cycled at a pace that didn't get me into a lather of sweat.

There was no need for changing rooms.

If you want to use your bike for sweaty exercise rather than as a means of transport, do it after work.

backofthepack

Most people in my office that cycle wouldn't use the shower.
They'd have a full change of clothes and baby wipes etc.

Now in saying that i would still check with management if I were you. If there were only a handful of people requiring access then surely something could be arranged, after all the best way to combat the virus is soap and water.
I imagine you'd pose more of a risk using public transport.

magicbastarder

backofthepack wrote: »

Most people in my office that cycle wouldn't use the shower.
They'd have a full change of clothes and baby wipes etc.

is there a shower available?
choosing to use baby wipes and doing a full change of clothes, when there is a shower available, would be weird.

AndrewJRenko

blackbox wrote: »

If you want to use your bike for sweaty exercise rather than as a means of transport, do it after work.

Why?

Why wouldn't a decent employer provide showers to facilitate staff who what to do something useful with their commute time, instead of working up to their next heart attack? These facilities can be used by cyclists, by those who run for their commute, those who go for a run at lunchtime, those who want to shower before they head out on the tear straight from work. It's a fairly basic level of facility, and would incur much lower costs than the facilities and space usually dedicated to parking. That's a win-win.

ED E

blackbox wrote: »

I cycled at a pace that didn't get me into a lather of sweat.

This.


Commute at commute pace, coffee with the club at club pace. If you don't use your commute as training you can get away grand without showers.

magicbastarder

what sort of pace can people maintain without breaking a sweat?

cL0h

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why wouldn't a decent employer provide showers to facilitate staff who what to do something useful with their commute time.

His employer has done that already. This is a temporary situation. OP has indicated he arrives to work in sweaty cycling specific clothing. He wants to continue to use facilities shared with other sweaty individuals to shower and change. This isn't about the rights of cyclists. It's about the employer making the best decision (in line with government advice) to reduce the spread of COVID-19.
There's plenty of people cohabiting with elderly and immuno-compromised who are dreading arriving back to work at all. I would urge OP to consider the common good and temporarily stop arriving to work in that manner with expectations of being facilitated. This isn't going to last forever. Suck it up.

ED E

I'm at 18-21kph for the whole journey including stops at lights, Fit doesnt autopause like Strava.

AndrewJRenko

cL0h wrote: »

His employer has done that already. This is a temporary situation. OP has indicated he arrives to work in sweaty cycling specific clothing. He wants to continue to use facilities shared with other sweaty individuals to shower and change. This isn't about the rights of cyclists. It's about the employer making the best decision (in line with government advice) to reduce the spread of COVID-19.
There's plenty of people cohabiting with elderly and immuno-compromised who are dreading arriving back to work at all. I would urge OP to consider the common good and temporarily stop arriving to work in that manner with expectations of being facilitated. This isn't going to last forever. Suck it up.

There is no Government advice to close shower rooms. How does closing the shower room reduce spread? If he now spends 10 minutes at the bathroom sink with baby wipes, is that better or worse for reducing spread? If he spends five minutes in a toilet cubicle, brushing off the sides of the cubicle and the toilet seat, is that better or worse for reducing spread?

What's happened here is that someone who doesn't cycle or run or use the shower room made a quick and easy decision without thinking it through.

Staying fit and healthy is an important factor in ensuring the population at large can fight off infection when it does hit. The ability to build exercise into your daily commute is an important factor in staying fit and healthy. Suck that up.

P_1

magicbastarder wrote: »

what sort of pace can people maintain without breaking a sweat?

Panier rack and keep it around 20kph, no sweat and you'll still get in there quicker than you would driving. If we want to get a proper cycling culture we should look to what the Danes and Dutch do.

Essentially a road bike is like a sportscar, most societies don't cater for sportscars. There's more to life than going fast 😉

P_1

magicbastarder wrote: »

what sort of pace can people maintain without breaking a sweat?

Panier rack and keep it around 20kph, no sweat and you'll still get in there quicker than you would driving. If we want to get a proper cycling culture we should look to what the Danes and Dutch do.

Essentially a road bike is like a sportscar, most societies don't cater for sportscars. There's more to life than going fast 😉

B.A._Baracus

iwillhtfu wrote: »

What the vast majority of cyclists that commute by bike and don't have showers/locker rooms do. Suck it up and use a sink if you must

I don't think OP is to concerned about the merits of cycling to work I just think it's inconvenient for him.

Well said.
Topped off brilliantly by the ever true inconvenient.

Op, there's thousands out of work right now. They'd gladly take your job and your salary. They wouldn't care about having some shower room and they'd laugh at you.

Realise this is nothing.

EC1000

bingobars wrote: »

ill also have to address the drying of my gear which would be part of my query

Ah here! Whatever about using facilities and wiping surfaces after you use them, you cannot expect your employer to solve the issue of you drying your sweaty gear.

In previous work places where I used communal showers, the stench of other people's gear drying in the changing rooms was always a major turn off.

If you are going to use communal areas, there should be a "leave no trace" policy when you are finished.

TheBoyConor

What people seem oblivious to is that years ago, I'm talking 40/50/60 years ago vast throngs of people cycled and walked to work. Very very few of them had showers or any sort of fancy facility of any kind. But they just got on with it without complaining. It wasn't looked upon as the trendy way of eco-hipsters or athletes keeping records of their weekly athletic performance statistics - it was just what had to be done if you wanted to be able to eat a dinner that evening.

If you have 20km to go, why does it have to be a sweaty frenzy. It is only a sweaty affair if you make it one. Could you not just leave 15 or 20 minutes earlier and go at a more relaxed pace so you don't be dripping in sweat when you get in? Bear in mind that not having to take a shower would mostly make up for the longer cycle time owing ot going at a slower rate. Wear light clothing also so you avoid sweating and are kept chilled by the air flow.

You should be making a distinction between functional cycling to get work and athletic cycling as exercise.

I cycle to and from work most days. On the way in I take it nice and handy so I am not sweaty. Sometimes when I go home I go faster because I don't mind being sweaty when I get home and I can take a shower at my leisure.

People don't know how handy they have it nowadays, even considering covid. If you were alive in the 1950s you'd know all about it with TB rampant around the country. I suggest you check yourself.

CramCycle

Just to throw a spanner in the works, some of us sweat profusely doing SFA, it is just the way some of us operate.

manlad

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There is no Government advice to close shower rooms. How does closing the shower room reduce spread? If he now spends 10 minutes at the bathroom sink with baby wipes, is that better or worse for reducing spread? If he spends five minutes in a toilet cubicle, brushing off the sides of the cubicle and the toilet seat, is that better or worse for reducing spread?

What's happened here is that someone who doesn't cycle or run or use the shower room made a quick and easy decision without thinking it through.

Staying fit and healthy is an important factor in ensuring the population at large can fight off infection when it does hit. The ability to build exercise into your daily commute is an important factor in staying fit and healthy. Suck that up.

Unfortunately some people treat showers like toilet bowls. Closing them reduces any additional risks as that is all that can be done. Its an added risk, an additional place for a virus to spread easier. They are not critical spaces right now and most companies globally have take this approach.

TheBoyConor

CramCycle wrote: »

Just to throw a spanner in the works, some of us sweat profusely doing SFA, it is just the way some of us operate.

Well then they need to see a doctor about it. That is a medical condition.

I know a fella like that. A fit enough guy, not a slouch by any means. Any activity that takes any more effort than an leisurly stroll and the sweat would be literally pissing out through him as if he had a pint of water thrown at him.

Unfortunately some people treat showers like toilet bowls. Closing them reduces any additional risks as that is all that can be done. Its an added risk, an additional place for a virus to spread easier. They are not critical spaces right now and most companies globally have take this approach.

You are right unfortunately. I experienced a "waffle stomper" before it was ever a meme or thing. I remember being in a shower cubicle and getting the distinct smell of **** wafting over from the line of cubicles. It being a place that involved a lot of mud and dirt I considered it might just be that until I then noticed a few fragments of what was clearly shít running into the aco-drain that was running along the wall along the back of the line of shower cubicles.

blackbox

CramCycle wrote: »

Just to throw a spanner in the works, some of us sweat profusely doing SFA, it is just the way some of us operate.

So nothing to do with cycling...

plodder

What people seem oblivious to is that years ago, I'm talking 40/50/60 years ago vast throngs of people cycled and walked to work. Very very few of them had showers or any sort of fancy facility of any kind.

Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE

CramCycle

blackbox wrote: »

So nothing to do with cycling...

Well, cycling is not everyones normal mode of exercise. I can tip along at a fair auld pace and not sweat a drop but someone who doesn;'t use those muscle groups regularly might find even moderate / low levels of cycling sweat inducing. It may be a few weeks of commuting before this changees, so, something to do with cycling.

Is it really that hard to imagine some people sweat when not puttnig in a hard effort. What about summer time, minimal effort on a warm day will cause sweating, even while walking.

Personally i don't care, I shower in the evenings and mornings, rarely needed a shower at work. On those days I could use tissue and deodorant, but all in all its not a necessity for me. Some people might want one though, even if they take all the tiem in the world on the way in. For some their bag on their back will cause sweating while cycling.

magicbastarder

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I know a fella like that. A fit enough guy, not a slouch by any means. Any activity that takes any more effort than an leisurly stroll and the sweat would be literally pissing out through him as if he had a pint of water thrown at him.

it's not a member of the royal family, by any chance?

magicbastarder

CramCycle wrote: »

What about summer time, minimal effort on a warm day will cause sweating, even while walking.

for me, i suspect i'd need to keep it below 15km/h on a warm day to not sweat.

that said, these are unusual times, and whether showers in workplaces should be open is not everyone's highest priority, unsurprisingly.
i know if i was using a shower and then later found that someone who had been in the contagious phase of covid19, had used it just before me, i'd not be comfortable at all.

out of curiosity, is it in building regs now, or possibly standard architectural practice, to include showers by default in new office builds?
our building was completed i think 18 years ago and the shower facilities are good and in the original build. a bike cage was put in on day one also, but the drying room was a later addition - though probably 10 years ago. it's a large office building to be fair, probably with a capacity for one and a half thousand people.

Hurrache

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Op, there's thousands out of work right now. They'd gladly take your job and your salary. They wouldn't care about having some shower room and they'd laugh at you.

Realise this is nothing.

What a dumb argument. Sure he should be thankful he even has legs.

CramCycle

Hurrache wrote: »

What a dumb argument. Sure he should be thankful he even has legs.

Indeed, nothing like an impending recession to bring out the race to the bottom types. I can't wait for the employers reps to come out saying minimum wage is holding us back, people should be glad to have a job at all type posts.

AndrewJRenko

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Well said.
Topped off brilliantly by the ever true inconvenient.

Op, there's thousands out of work right now. They'd gladly take your job and your salary. They wouldn't care about having some shower room and they'd laugh at you.

Realise this is nothing.

Ah sure, what about the poor starving babies in Africa who'd gladly take the dole from those thousands out of work? Are we really going to play the 'luxury' game to show who's worst off? It really has nothing to do with the issue in hand.

P_1 wrote: »

Panier rack and keep it around 20kph, no sweat and you'll still get in there quicker than you would driving. If we want to get a proper cycling culture we should look to what the Danes and Dutch do.

Essentially a road bike is like a sportscar, most societies don't cater for sportscars. There's more to life than going fast ��

People are different. I sweat walking up two flights of stairs. What works for you doesn't work for everybody. Stop designing for yourself - design for everybody.

EC1000 wrote: »

Ah here! Whatever about using facilities and wiping surfaces after you use them, you cannot expect your employer to solve the issue of you drying your sweaty gear.

In previous work places where I used communal showers, the stench of other people's gear drying in the changing rooms was always a major turn off.

If you are going to use communal areas, there should be a "leave no trace" policy when you are finished.

Really? Employers can't be expected to provide drying space?

You might want to tell those companies who design, build and sell products designed to do exactly this
https://total-locker-service.com/Heated-locker.php
Presumably they managed to find a market of employers who realise it is to their benefit to support their staff to stay fit and healthy.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

What people seem oblivious to is that years ago, I'm talking 40/50/60 years ago vast throngs of people cycled and walked to work. Very very few of them had showers or any sort of fancy facility of any kind. But they just got on with it without complaining. It wasn't looked upon as the trendy way of eco-hipsters or athletes keeping records of their weekly athletic performance statistics - it was just what had to be done if you wanted to be able to eat a dinner that evening.

If you have 20km to go, why does it have to be a sweaty frenzy. It is only a sweaty affair if you make it one. Could you not just leave 15 or 20 minutes earlier and go at a more relaxed pace so you don't be dripping in sweat when you get in? Bear in mind that not having to take a shower would mostly make up for the longer cycle time owing ot going at a slower rate. Wear light clothing also so you avoid sweating and are kept chilled by the air flow.

You should be making a distinction between functional cycling to get work and athletic cycling as exercise.

I cycle to and from work most days. On the way in I take it nice and handy so I am not sweaty. Sometimes when I go home I go faster because I don't mind being sweaty when I get home and I can take a shower at my leisure.

People don't know how handy they have it nowadays, even considering covid. If you were alive in the 1950s you'd know all about it with TB rampant around the country. I suggest you check yourself.

They didn't have flush toilets in most houses in the 1950s, so presumably you're happy to give up your loo and go dig a hole in your garden instead?
Again, just because you choose not to use these facilities does not mean they are important for other people.

manlad wrote: »

Unfortunately some people treat showers like toilet bowls. Closing them reduces any additional risks as that is all that can be done. Its an added risk, an additional place for a virus to spread easier. They are not critical spaces right now and most companies globally have take this approach.

They are absolutely critical if you want to keep people off public transport.