Farage highlighting illegal migration chaos

end of the road

DelaneyIn wrote: »

What are they fleeing from in France?

do they need to be specifically fleeing france?
anyway, tell me why i should be more annoyed about people wanting to seek a better life in britain all be it illegally, over farage heading out to dover on a non-essential trip when his country is in lockdown to no doubt push whatever agenda he is in all likely hood trying to push?

CtevenSrowder

splashuum wrote: »

It’s dangerous to make that sort of accusation. Pretty sad that the poster will not provide any proof.

Labelling anyone who questions immigration as racist is unfortunately par the course in modern political discourse. You're either fully onboard or a xenophobic racist.

Tell me how

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You stated this:



Now, back it up with evidence.

Don't know if this image appeared when I posted it on my last post.



Or here is the link

Another Link

Even his racism is class-bound. Mr. Farage’s problem is not just with immigrants, it seems, but with poor immigrants especially: those from Eastern Europe, or Muslim countries, or those with H.I.V. He has said he would be uncomfortable with Romanians as neighbors, but he married a woman from Germany.

What did he say about Romanians I hear you ask
Link

He added: "I was asked if a group of Romanian men moved in next to you, would you be concerned? And if you lived in London, I think you would be."

Eric Cartman

DelaneyIn wrote: »

What are they fleeing from in France?

a lack of automatic welfare payments.

end of the road

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Labelling anyone who questions immigration as racist is unfortunately par the course in modern political discourse. You're either fully onboard or a xenophobic racist.

nope, one can question immigration away all they like.
they can't simply spout whatever about immigrants unchallenged however.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

a lack of automatic welfare payments.

clearly a bad move then given they apparently don't get such in britain either.

dd973

DelaneyIn wrote: »

What are they fleeing from in France?

A 'foreign country' with a strong language, regulation, registration system and a sense of culture and an ethnocentric identity.

Nobody rocks up in England's bottomless diaspora of Luton's and Hounslow's walking around looking lost and trying to grope their way around in 'a foreign country', it's foreign to nobody and belongs to the world.

Even England doesn't exist as a proper nation state with a constitution and bill of rights, it's swallowed up and dissipated the by 19th Century U.K or 'Britishness', it suits the Brit Establishment for the English to assimilate and ubiquitise themselves with nebulous, sketchy Britishness.

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

Don't know if this image appeared when I posted it on my last post.



Or here is the link

Another Link


What did he say about Romanians I hear you ask
Link

Washington Post link is behind a paywall. None of the rest of it is racist.

Kidchameleon

Tell me how wrote: »

Don't know if this image appeared when I posted it on my last post.



Or here is the link

Another Link


What did he say about Romanians I hear you ask
Link

Youve sent me a load of links stating the obvious that Farage is against immigration. Firstly, he has no problem with controlled immigration and secondly, it is not racist to oppose immigration. Romanians are not a race for example. Muslims are not a race.


Again, could you provide a link that backs up your claim that Farage is "racist". Thanks.

CtevenSrowder

end of the road wrote: »

nope, one can question immigration away all they like.
they can't simply spout whatever about immigrants unchallenged however.

Oh you can question away no doubt. However you'll be very quickly labelled racist by some quarters almost instantly.

Tell me how

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Youve sent me a load of links stating the obvious that Farage is against immigration. Firstly, he has no problem with controlled immigration and secondly, it is not racist to oppose immigration. Romanians are not a race for example. Muslims are not a race.


Again, could you provide a link that backs up your claim that Farage is "racist". Thanks.

If you want to be pedantic and say that Muslims and Romanians are not inherently different races then that's fine.

You know as well as I do that the term is applied to anyone who inherently feels that someone who is different to them through a defined measure or that they project assumptions on the behaviors of an individual because of said defined measure and as a consequence people who belong to that group are of less importance or merit than the person making the judgement.

That withstanding, the start of this thread of the conversation was you asking for for a link to support the claim that Farage is xenophobic.

Tell me how wrote: »

Farage has used inflammatory imagery and words to more than support the view that he is xenohpobic

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Could you provide one example of that please to back it up. JUST ONE EXAMPLE. Thanks.

So, given what has been posted, are you willing to admit that in your view, he is not racist, but is xenophobic?

Hector Savage

Tell me how wrote: »

Would that be the xenophobic Douglas Murray?

Yeah he must be xenophobic because he isn't fully on board with the open border madness.

Kidchameleon

Tell me how wrote: »

If you want to be pedantic and say that Muslims and Romanians are not inherently different races then that's fine.

You know as well as I do that the term is applied to anyone who inherently feels that someone who is different to them through a defined measure or that they project assumptions on the behaviors of an individual because of said defined measure and as a consequence people who belong to that group are of less importance or merit than the person making the judgement.

You said that he is literally racist. You said you had heard him say things that are racist. I asked you many times to back up that assertion. You did not.
Firstly, will you admit that he is not racist?

Tell me how wrote: »

That withstanding, the start of this thread of the conversation was you asking for for a link to support the claim that Farage is xenophobic.

So, given what has been posted, are you willing to admit that in your view, he is not racist, but is xenophobic?

I'd be willing to do that but I would firstly need to hear what your exact definition of "xenophobic" is?

Tell me how

Hector Savage wrote: »

Yeah he must be xenophobic because he isn't fully on board with the open border madness.

Why is it that people (and their supporters) who publish works on the issues of integration between communities and how particular groups, cultures or religions are inherently troublesome have an issue with being called xenophobes?

The dictionary definition which is

a person having a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

I mean, if the shoe fits.....

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

Why is it that people (and their supporters) who publish works on the issues of integration between communities and how particular groups, cultures or religions are inherently troublesome have an issue with being called xenophobes?

The dictionary definition which is



I mean, if the shoe fits.....

Has Douglas Murray said that Muslims, for example, are "inherently" troublesome. Have you read any of his books? How does one question immigration and the ability of some to integrate effectively in your opinion without crossing into being a "racist, xenophobe etc."?

Tell me how

Kidchameleon wrote: »

You said that he is literally racist. You said you had heard him say things that are racist. I asked you many times to back up that assertion. You did not.
Firstly, will you admit that he is not racist?

I said, in my view, he is racist. I stand by that view. It is an opinion and I am entitled to have it.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I'd be willing to do that but I would firstly need to hear what your exact definition of "xenophobic" is?

Not my definition, a dictionary definition according to google.

a person having a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

Glad you see you finally accepting that Nigel falls in to this category. Would you class yourself as a xenophobe?

Tell me how

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Has Douglas Murray said that Muslims, for example, are "inherently" troublesome. Have you read any of his books?

I've listened to him speak and read some articles from him.

Why would I read one of his books, when I disagree with the views of his which I have heard?

Kidchameleon

Tell me how wrote: »

I said, in my view, he is racist. I stand by that view. It is an opinion and I am entitled to have it.

Your wrong though. Your opinion is misinformed as you have been shown. You can continue to go on in ignorance if you wish.

Tell me how wrote: »

Glad you see you finally accepting that Nigel falls in to this category. Would you class yourself as a xenophobe?

Well now, don't be putting words in my mouth, that's not how debate works. Under the definition of xenophobe you have given I would say that Farage does NOT fall into that category. I say that because, he is against large scale immigration and not against immigration from any particular demographic.

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

I've listened to him speak and read some articles from him.

Why would I read one of his books, when I disagree with the views of his which I have heard?

Maybe you should read his books as they spell out peoples positions better that any interview or article can. Anyway, when has he claimed that certain groups of people are "inherently" troublesome?

dd973

Douglas Murray is a creepy oleaginous pseudo intellectual bellend, it's odd how many LGBT people are into that Libertarian Right Wing stuff, I know people's sexual identity and their politics aren't necessarily the same but I'd have thought being part of a minority would posit them more towards the Left.

suicide_circus

Tell me how wrote: »

Why would I read one of his books, when I disagree with the views of his which I have heard?

Why would you only read books written by people you agree with? Seems kind of limiting

end of the road

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Oh you can question away no doubt. However you'll be very quickly labelled racist by some quarters almost instantly.

not for simply questioning you won't.

Hector Savage wrote: »

Yeah he must be xenophobic because he isn't fully on board with the open border madness.

that likely wouldn't be the reason no, as there seems to be very few people actually on board with open borders.

PCeeeee

dd973 wrote: »

Douglas Murray is a creepy oleaginous pseudo intellectual bellend, it's odd how many LGBT people are into that Libertarian Right Wing stuff, I know people's sexual identity and their politics aren't necessarily the same but I'd have thought being part of a minority would posit them more towards the Left.

Frankly the odd thing here is thinking that sexual identity is a good means of positioning someone on the political spectrum.

Tell me how

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your wrong though. Your opinion is misinformed as you have been shown. You can continue to go on in ignorance if you wish.

Why do you think I am wrong? Is it purely on the basis of you valuing your opinion above my own?

Care to enlighten me with some links to remove the ignorance's which you feel I possess but you don't?

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Well now, don't be putting words in my mouth, that's not how debate works. Under the definition of xenophobe you have given I would say that Farage does NOT fall into that category. I say that because, he is against large scale immigration and not against immigration from any particular demographic.

I didn't put any words in your mouth. You said it yourself.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I'd be willing to do that but I would firstly need to hear what your exact definition of "xenophobic" is?

CtevenSrowder

PCeeeee wrote: »

Frankly the odd thing here is thinking that sexual identity is a good means of positioning someone on the political spectrum.

Ironically his last book dealt with this very issue!

CtevenSrowder

end of the road wrote: »

not for simply questioning you won't.



that likely wouldn't be the reason no, as there seems to be very few people actually on board with open borders.

Oh but you will. Douglas Murray has done it and Tell Me How has called him xenophobic. Still waiting for the evidence of how he is.

Tell me how

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Maybe you should read his books as they spell out peoples positions better that any interview or article can. Anyway, when has he claimed that certain groups of people are "inherently" troublesome?

Maybe you will refuse to believe it because he didn't use the word 'inherently'

Link

“While everyone should remember this is a minority of people who would do such an atrocious act, it nevertheless obviously comes from Islam. It’s a problem that comes from Islam.”

On reading his books? Why should I? I have heard enough of his philosophy to form an opinion as to what a full book of it would be like. You're not going to eat a full meal if you take a taste and find it unpalatable.

end of the road

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Oh but you will. Douglas Murray has done it and Tell Me How has called him xenophobic. Still waiting for the evidence of how he is.

generally in my experience, only if you are actually one will you be called such, whereas if you aren't one you won't be called such.

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

Maybe you will refuse to believe it because he didn't use the word 'inherently'

Link



On reading his books? Why should I? I have heard enough of his philosophy to form an opinion as to what a full book of it would be like. You're not going to eat a full meal if you take a taste and find it unpalatable.

What is xenophobic about that? There are British Muslims too, and less religion would be good in general imo. Regardless, he is talking about a religion not about "people from other countries", which is the definition of xenophobia that you gave earlier. If he'd said the same thing about Catholicism no doubt you'd be fully supportive. He's even correctly prefaced what he has said with it's a minority.

You strike me as one of these people that is desperate to portray those you don't agree with as these awful people so you can forever claim the moral victory, as "winning" debates based on fact, logic and reason is something you struggle to do. You've failed to provide any evidence for any of the spurious claims you've made about both Farage and Murray. Is Sam Harris a xenophobe too in your opinion?

Tell me how

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

What is xenophobic about that? There are British Muslims too, and less religion would be good in general imo. Regardless, he is talking about a religion not about "people from other countries", which is the definition of xenophobia that you gave earlier. If he'd said the same thing about Catholicism no doubt you'd be fully supportive. He's even correctly prefaced what he has said with it's a minority.

This is using the same tactic as Kidchameleon was at earlier. Trying to ask one question and then argue that the answer is wrong for a different question.

I was asked to give an example of where he suggested some groups were inherently troublesome. I showed how he indicated that Muslim groups are possessed by a value which is troublesome and now you are saying that that doesn't prove he is xenophobic.

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

You strike me as one of these people that is desperate to portray those you don't agree with as these awful people so you can forever claim the moral victory, as "winning" debates based on fact, logic and reason is something you struggle to do. You've failed to provide any evidence for any of the spurious claims you've made about both Farage and Murray. Is Sam Harris a xenophobe too in your opinion?

I don't care about 'winning' any debate, least not with people who have proven time and again that they are not for changing.
I see the influence that some people such as Farage, Murray and others have on the world and I think it is of a more negative nature than positive and we have seen how that is not for the good of society in broad terms.

And why should I sit back and let them, or posters on boards express their opinion without countering it where I disagree with it?

suicide_circus

countries need borders.

borders need to be guarded.

these truths are self evident.