Farage highlighting illegal migration chaos

Tell me how

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Apparently you don't know how debating works. I proved that gangs were terrorizing parts of Dublin. You disputed my sources so its now its on you to prove it didn't happen [which you can't because it made headlines all over the world]

Is this what you're talking about?

Article

Ireland has the third highest cocaine use in Europe. Seizures of the drug have gone up 800% in the last five years. "People get shot and we don't even hear about it. It just becomes commonplace - drug-related and part of a feud," said one community worker on Blanchardstown's sprawling estates, driving past landmarks of recent feuding. There are flowers at a tree where a young man bled to death after he was shot in the legs. At a parade of shops, another group of men were lined up and shot for stepping out of line. The local hospital is becoming expert at gunshot wounds - admissions have gone up fourfold in four years.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you equally as adamant that Saudis must allow open homosexuality and should allow numerous pubs be open and bacon to be made freely available in order to make westerners feel welcome?

Anyway, my point is, that no illegal immigrant should be made feel welcome. They are illegal. Migrants are a different kettle of fish but again, I don't think any host nation should change based on an influx of people who chose to move there.

A migrant should choose to move to a country they want to move to based on what they feel most fits their ideals. If they are moving from a country which they feel is inferior to one they are moving to, why the **** would they want to import their cultures beliefs.

because their culture's basic beliefs may not be the reason for their country being the way it is . a deliberate misinterpretation of them may very well be, but the culture and beliefs themselves may be perfectly fine, and where not so the laws in western countries generally cover them.

2u2me wrote: »

Here is racist xenophobe Bill Clinton in his state of the union speech of 1995. He was never a real president anyway!


Standing ovation from entire room.

C-NET

A time when the whole country could get behind him. What on earth has changed since.

what has changed is that unlike Bill Clintonwho simply wanted to enforce the law, certain politicians engage in rhetoric when it comes to immigrants in an attempt to whip up support for their actual agenda.

Cordell wrote: »

Last year Ireland had the first couple convicted because they performed a FGM on their girl, so clearly this adds to the evidence of why Europe needs more diversity.

no, it adds to the evidence that finally we may be taking fgm seriously and clamping down on it.
and clamp down hard on it we should.
some members of a group engaging in something does not mean the whole group are doing it.

BarnardsLoop

You "proved" Jack ****. A forum post and a blog post prove nothing, except that anyone can go on the internet and make things up. And if that's your proof, here's mine: it didn't happen. I'm just an anonymous user on a forum so my word should hold just as much weight, right?

If it made headlines all over the world, then I'm sure you'll have no problem linking to something from an actual news source.

end of the road

Mr. Karate wrote: »

He [and Hilary when she was a Senator] along with Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi all supported border control, including a wall [or a barrier of some sort as Hillary once put it] at one point. Shows you how phony the outrage against Trump for wanting to curb illegal immigration.

it's not about trump wanting to curb illegal immigration at all, it's about him spouting rhetoric to whip up his supporters.

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/coronavirus-or-not-african-migrants-push-on-toward-europe/

Coronavirus or not, still they wish to flood in. I'm so tired of this being an issue. Italy has enough to deal with, one would think having an organised, sensible immigration system would be one of the easier ones to solve. You literally have a great model to emulate in the form of Australia.

their model is just an extra layer of filtering, it doesn't completely remove immigrants who may be a problem for the country.
even with it, the australians have people in camps on island nations while they check them, often in conditions that make direct provision look like a luxury hotel, conditions which i believe they have been criticised for refusing to sort out, for a long time from as high up as the UN.
even if we replicated them we would still need our current systems so that we can at least check people out.

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Apparently you don't know how debating works. I proved that gangs were terrorizing parts of Dublin. You disputed my sources so its now its on you to prove it didn't happen [which you can't because it made headlines all over the world]

you didn't prove it. a forum post and a website trying to pass itself off as something else can reasonably be discounted as any sort of proof of anything, because the sources have enough information within their whole content to show that they cannot be relied on in any way.

Cordell

end of the road wrote: »

no, it adds to the evidence that finally we may be taking fgm seriously and clamping down on it.

Great, as we should. Finally, like.

end of the road wrote: »

some members of a group engaging in something does not mean the whole group are doing it.

Of course, I never implied otherwise.
But let's not forget the topic of this particular conversation: the claim that diversity is positive. For now, with this clamping down on these savage practices Europe seems to struggle to make diversity neutral.

CtevenSrowder

We've yet to see any evidence of the claim that diversity is a benefit to society.

splashuum

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

We've yet to see any evidence of the claim that diversity is a benefit to society.

Shocking

Tell me how

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

We've yet to see any evidence of the claim that diversity is a benefit to society.

You can continue to say that you don't think the benefit outweighs the negative, personally, I really don't care at this point.
But you can't just simply state something now when you have already responded to posts outlining just some of the benefits.

bmc58

splashuum wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1374875846051725

Farage is very recently going hammer and tongs in highlighting the major illegal migration scandal in the UK. He released a startling video showing the true extent of what is going on in the UK right now. The fact that small babies being brought on to these boats is scary. Even if some of these people qualified as refugees, one can only claim refugee status in the first safe country you come to, many boats stop in France first but then travel to the UK afterwards.
France is a safe country so it really is peculiar. Criminal gangs are running these operations and without the likes of Farage this scandal would continue to go on un-noticed.

France is not as safe as you think.Some parts of Paris(I think) and other cities are no go areas for the police now.They are run by gangs of migrants and are left to their own devices.

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

You can continue to say that you don't think the benefit outweighs the negative, personally, I really don't care at this point.
But you can't just simply state something now when you have already responded to posts outlining just some of the benefits.

Yes I mean benefit on a balance, doesn't everyone in this discussion? You have given one (as long as it's distinct from cultural practices). There have been more counter examples to the idea that diversity is simply a benefit however. Diversity was given as a benefit to society of taking in refugees and allowing in illegal immigrants. The evidence of diversity being a benefit of doing this has not been shown.

bmc58

Deleted User wrote: »

TL;DR

Nigel Farage is a xenophobic ****.

He's a cute hoor.He hates the EU so much he's decided out of spite to just keep his EU pension.That's courage for you and standing up for your principles.

olestoepoke

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

We've yet to see any evidence of the claim that diversity is a benefit to society.

I think some groups bring plenty of benefit to society. The Indian people in the UK and other countries seem to thrive and are generally well accepted by most. I'm guessing mainly for their ability to embrace their new country. The Irish in the USA are the same. The problem is groups that refuse to be part of society and even go as far to reject the laws of the country for something like Sahria law. I don't care what colour your skin is, I do care about your attitude toward a society that has been hundreds of years in the making.

CtevenSrowder

olestoepoke wrote: »

I think some groups bring plenty of benefit to society. The Indian people in the UK and other countries seem to thrive and generally well accepted by most. I'm guessing mainly for their ability to embrace their new country. The Irish in the USA are the same. The problem is groups that refuse to be part of society and even go as far to reject the laws of the country for something like Sahria law. I don't care what colour your skin is, I do care about your attitude toward a society that has been hundreds of years in the making.

Yes, integration is the key. However I would make the argument that in order to enable integration to happen immigration numbers must be kept minimal so as to prevent clusters of people from the same regions gathering together and continuing as if they were in their own country (which is natural). This is particularly worrisome if the people are from areas of the World were the rights of some are far below what we have, or don't exist at all.

Integrating to me means essentially becoming culturally Irish, moulding yourself to our society, accepting the law of our land and the protections that certain groups here have. But this is not diversity (the first two in particular).

Tell me how

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Yes I mean benefit on a balance, doesn't everyone in this discussion? You have given one (as long as it's distinct from cultural practices). There have been more counter examples to the idea that diversity is simply a benefit however. Diversity was given as a benefit to society of taking in refugees and allowing in illegal immigrants. The evidence of diversity being a benefit of doing this has not been shown.

The vast number of people from different cultures, when they travel to a new location, assimilate without issue, form relationships, have families etc.
Both parties often celebrate elements of their culture whether that be food, music, dance, art, national days of celebration, religion etc and most people feel fulfilled with this new experience.

That is an example of a benefit of diversity.

The counter examples listed above are cases of misbehavior or criminal activity carried out by a small number of new arrivals. Such behaviour is in no way to be excused, but it would be like Australia wanting to stop all Irish migrants because of gangs who were running paving and roofing scams.

Galwayguy35

Tell me how wrote: »

The vast number of people from different cultures, when they travel to a new location, assimilate without issue, form relationships, have families etc.
Both parties often celebrate elements of their culture whether that be food, music, dance, art, national days of celebration, religion etc and most people feel fulfilled with this new experience.

That is an example of a benefit of diversity.

The counter examples listed above are cases of misbehavior or criminal activity carried out by a small number of new arrivals. Such behaviour is in no way to be excused, but it would be like Australia wanting to stop all Irish migrants because of gangs who were running paving and roofing scams.

Bit of a difference between legally going to a country and contributing in a positive way by working and paying taxes compared to arriving on a boat with nothing to offer and expecting that country to everything for them.

Britain, Spain and italy will always be plagued with illegals because of their geographical location, traditionally we were fortunate in that we weren't an easy county to get to but that is changing now.

munstermagic11

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Using your logic, the actions of our Church (child sexual abuse) add to the evidence that Europe needs more diversity. Do the actions of a few define the majority?

Some serious amount of channeled anger on here. It's all the foreigners fault for issues in their own lives.

No, the logic would be that we needed to reform our need for religious tolerance which dictated our laws.

Importing people whose religions are even more archaic and adapting our society and tolerance to their beliefs in order to accommodate them is not a great idea.

Ireland suffered greatly from our ****ty religious background, let's not tolerate any more.

What a ridiculous argument.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

You can continue to say that you don't think the benefit outweighs the negative, personally, I really don't care at this point.
But you can't just simply state something now when you have already responded to posts outlining just some of the benefits.

Would you like the world to be a homogeneous group where everything is diluted?

Should gay marriage be allowed in Muslim countries?
Should alcohol be freely available in Muslim countries?
Should people be allowed to marry multiple people in Ireland?
Should we allow genital mutilation?

Tell me exactly where your tolerance for diversity starts and ends.

As I have stated, diversity is not a positive of illegal immigration. It is a natural evolution due to legal immigration and of other cultures immersing and adapting to their host country.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you like the world to be a homogeneous group where everything is diluted?

Should gay marriage be allowed in Muslim countries?
Should alcohol be freely available in Muslim countries?
Should people be allowed to marry multiple people in Ireland?
Should we allow genital mutilation?

Tell me exactly where your tolerance for diversity starts and ends.

As I have stated, diversity is not a positive of illegal immigration. It is a natural evolution due to legal immigration and of other cultures immersing and adapting to their host country.

Who are you to demand me to tell you anything 'exactly'?
All of us can choose to post here or not.

In terms of your 'should' questions.
I'm not sure how these questions are relevant to anything? Have I suggested in any way that these practices should be encouraged?

Should Gay marriage be allowed? Yes? But it's not so long since it wasn't allowed in Ireland either.
Were you equally aghast at many US states still having laws against homosexual acts up until 17 years ago?
Should people be allowed to marry multiple people in Ireland? I'm not sure. If all people in the marriage are aware of each other, do you think they shouldn't? Can't say I care one way or another. There are already open relationships, single parent households etc
As for genital mutilation. I'm not sure. I certainly wouldn't be in favor of it being carried out on females but what about boys? Again, are you equally aghast at the Jewish communities practicing of circumcision, or is only the predominantly muslim practice of FGM which disgusts you.

Finally you are moving the goalposts in saying now that diversity is not a positive of illegal immigration when before the argument was that diversity is not of any benefit.

One last thing.
Do you think that any of the people who come to Ireland as asylum seekers are fleeing persecution, hardship risk of death in their home country?
Do you think these people should be refused the opportunity to build a life in Ireland.

Tell me how

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Bit of a difference between legally going to a country and contributing in a positive way by working and paying taxes compared to arriving on a boat with nothing to offer and expecting that country to everything for them.

Britain, Spain and italy will always be plagued with illegals because of their geographical location, traditionally we were fortunate in that we weren't an easy county to get to but that is changing now.

Do you think that everyone who has come to Ireland illegally is doing so with nothing to offer and is expecting the country to provide everything for them?

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Who are you to demand me to tell you anything 'exactly'?
All of us can choose to post here or not.

In terms of your 'should' questions.
I'm not sure how these questions are relevant to anything? Have I suggested in any way that these practices should be encouraged?

Should Gay marriage be allowed? Yes? But it's not so long since it wasn't allowed in Ireland either.
Were you equally aghast at many US states still having laws against homosexual acts up until 17 years ago?
Should people be allowed to marry multiple people in Ireland? I'm not sure. If all people in the marriage are aware of each other, do you think they shouldn't? Can't say I care one way or another. There are already open relationships, single parent households etc
As for genital mutilation. I'm not sure. I certainly wouldn't be in favor of it being carried out on females but what about boys? Again, are you equally aghast at the Jewish communities practicing of circumcision, or is only the predominantly muslim practice of FGM which disgusts you.

Finally you are moving the goalposts in saying now that diversity is not a positive of illegal immigration when before the argument was that diversity is not of any benefit.

One last thing.
Do you think that any of the people who come to Ireland as asylum seekers are fleeing persecution, hardship risk of death in their home country?
Do you think these people should be refused the opportunity to build a life in Ireland.

I think I am a person asking someone to be specific about their opinion on a discussion board. Don't come across as someone high and mighty as if I am being egregious in asking that. **** sake. Get a grip. Offended that I ask for specifics?

Yes, I am hugely against circumcisions for purely religious purposes and have actually been called anti-Semitic for saying so. If given the chance, I would vote for it to be made illegal.

I would be opposed to multiple marriages as it would have knock on effects in inheritance and child welfare issues as well as opening the door to tax implications and marriages of convenience.

And yes, I was aghast about homosexuality being illegal and was very happy when that changed. I would hate to see even more archaic views being imported.

And again, no goalpost was moved. I said diversity can and should only happen when done through legal immigration where it happens naturally and not as a result of forced tolerance of a host nation to adapt to the migrant.

And to answer your last questions, yes anyone who flees to Ireland as a refugee as someone who is in fear of their life should be vetted and should apply for refugee status. If given refugee status, they should not expect the values they had in the country which tried to kill them should be applicable and therefore should have absolutely no issue in completely integrating. If any aspect of life in Ireland doesn't suit them or they want Ireland to adapt to their belief, they should perhaps move to a different country as a refugee. One which is more aligned to their way of life (which they are fleeing apparently)

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

And to answer your last questions, yes anyone who flees to Ireland as a refugee as someone who is in fear of their life should be vetted and should apply for refugee status. If given refugee status, they should not expect the values they had in the country which tried to kill them should be applicable and therefore should have absolutely no issue in completely integrating. If any aspect of life in Ireland doesn't suit them or they want Ireland to adapt to their belief, they should perhaps move to a different country as a refugee. One which is more aligned to their way of life (which they are fleeing apparently)

So have you any evidence that this is not happening? Comprehensive evidence, not just a single outlier.

Because other than that, it seems that you should be pretty happy with the Irish situation both in terms of who is applying to get asylum status, how their case is heard and how they live their lives in Ireland if granted the right to stay.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

So have you any evidence that this is not happening? Comprehensive evidence, not just a single outlier.

Because other than that, it seems that you should be pretty happy with the Irish situation both in terms of who is applying to get asylum status, how their case is heard and how they live their lives in Ireland if granted the right to stay.

What comprehensive evidence would be suitable for you? I have anecdotal evidence and I'm sure I could find some stats on how illegal immigration is being flaunted but that is not my point.

I stated my opinions on diversity from illegal immigrants is not a positive.

I already said I am happy for legal migrants and refugees to be granted access once they have gone through vetting and proper channels.

Do I think Ireland is too LAX on illegal immigration? Yes. I think that there should be an absolute zero tolerance policy. If you enter the country illegally, you should be sent back to where you came. if a refugee, you should be assessed and vetted and questioned as to why you didn't go to the nearest safe country. Anything other than that is too lax.

What's your view?

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

Who are you to demand me to tell you anything 'exactly'?
All of us can choose to post here or not.

In terms of your 'should' questions.
I'm not sure how these questions are relevant to anything? Have I suggested in any way that these practices should be encouraged?

Should Gay marriage be allowed? Yes? But it's not so long since it wasn't allowed in Ireland either.
Were you equally aghast at many US states still having laws against homosexual acts up until 17 years ago?
Should people be allowed to marry multiple people in Ireland? I'm not sure. If all people in the marriage are aware of each other, do you think they shouldn't? Can't say I care one way or another. There are already open relationships, single parent households etc
As for genital mutilation. I'm not sure. I certainly wouldn't be in favor of it being carried out on females but what about boys? Again, are you equally aghast at the Jewish communities practicing of circumcision, or is only the predominantly muslim practice of FGM which disgusts you.

Finally you are moving the goalposts in saying now that diversity is not a positive of illegal immigration when before the argument was that diversity is not of any benefit.

One last thing.
Do you think that any of the people who come to Ireland as asylum seekers are fleeing persecution, hardship risk of death in their home country?
Do you think these people should be refused the opportunity to build a life in Ireland.

The debate has always been framed around illegal immigration:

Kidchameleon wrote: »

One illegal immigrant is too much

Tell me how wrote: »

Yeah?
Why?

And why now?
In these countries?

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Yeah



They are a burden on taxpayers and a security risk



It has always been that way IMHO



IMHO, no country should have to deal with illegals, send them straight back from whence they came would be my motto

Tell me how wrote: »

You could argue that everything is a burden on taxpayers if you view it simply as money out without considering what they can bring.

There are benefits from supporting migrants, particularly refugees.

• Diversity
• Skills which many of them possess and could use to contribute to the country they go to.
• Cultural experiences
• In many instances, as a recognition for the damage that was done to their country by the government and military of the country they are travelling to.
• Empathy for a shared cultural experience of not being safe in your home country.

I hope you recognize how lucky you are to live in a country in which you feel safe and have adequate opportunities to live life as you wish.

Thankfully most people do, and have an understanding of the hardships which others are continually enduring.

Cordell

Tell me how wrote: »

predominantly muslim practice of FGM

It's not a muslim practice and it has nothing to do with islam. It's mostly an African cultural practice, and as it happens most counties that have it are muslim, but not all - Kenya for example.

And yes, both MGM and FGM should be banned, but FGM is much much worse, because of its justifications and the physical disability it produces.

Mr. Karate

Tell me how wrote: »

Do you think that everyone who has come to Ireland illegally is doing so with nothing to offer and is expecting the country to provide everything for them?

75% of the "refugees" that came arrived in Germany when that "Refugee crisis" started in 2015 are still on the dole. I think its very safe to say that other European Countries fell for this scam are averaging similar numbers as well.

BarnardsLoop

Oh hey, you're back!

Do you have any proof yet about "parts of Dublin have been taken over"? Or are you just going to continue to promulgate racist bolloxology?

Galwayguy35

Tell me how wrote: »

Do you think that everyone who has come to Ireland illegally is doing so with nothing to offer and is expecting the country to provide everything for them?

Yeah I do.

They should do it legally or stay where they are.

Anyone who enters a country illegally should be given no preference and should be immediately deported.

"Illegal".

Against the law.

10000maniacs

biko wrote: »

Are you for fully open borders?
If not then you might just be someone else's xenophobic ****

I don't like Farage's bigoted politics, but I wish people would stop sticking "phobia" or "phobic" at the end of words to label people.
Some people want to give various ideas human rights by appending "phobia" or "phobic" to these ideas and shut down discussion.

2u2me

10000maniacs wrote: »

I don't like Farage's bigoted politics,

What do you mean by this?