Small Claims Court Thread

dory

All written by Paddy19

As of 25 May:
Aer Lingus are paying up within a few days of the 15 calendar day limit.

Ryanair seem to be disputing all SCC claims, so chargeback maybe a better option.

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If your flight is cancelled you are entitled to a cash refund in 7 days per EU261 8 1 a.

The small claims process is one way to get your money back from a travel company registered in Ireland.

It costs 25 Euro which is non refundable and non claimable.

The small claims process is no more difficult than creating an account on eBay or Amazon,
it is designed to be simple to use. No requirement for a solicitor or be fluent in legalese.

Best part is the company must reply within 15 calendar days.
If they don't reply you win the case.
Companies normally just pay up if they know they will loose.
If they decide to defend the case they have to retain an expensive solicitor.
If the case goes to court you have to attend the court. Your expenses are not allowed. The Airline expenses are not not allowed either.

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Guide

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The small claims process is very straight forward:

https://www.csol.ie/ccms/welcome.html

1. Create an account.
2. Open a New Case.
3. Add Claimant (that's you) details.
4. Add Respondent details that's the company.
5. Add Case Details. Keep it very simple, flight cancelled, booking ref number, passenger names, flight details and the total cost of the complete booking. Note: Refund for all flights and all passengers on booking. Note: Reference # or screenshot date for refund request.

Don't worry about submitting documents at this stage.

6. Submit Claim.
7. Check under Events to make sure Claim Submitted shows on the listing.
8. You will get an email
"Courts Service - Notification Case Not Initiated"
This email will have a link for paying the 25 Euro.
9. Once the Registrar sends the claim to the company the events status will show as "Claim Issued."
10. If the airline does not respond within 15 calendar days you win the case. The airline may dispute the claim and request documents. You can email the documents to the Registrar and ask him to send them to the airline.

11. The airline can then pay up or dispute the claim. For a disputed claim you then have a choice to drop the case or request a court date. You have top be prepared to attend the court personally.
Expenses for court appearances are not allowable.

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It's generally intuitive except they have the blue Add Claimant, Add Respondent and Edit Case Details,
are three quarters way up the page. You if you get stuck check those buttons.

Critical you get the airlines official titles and CRO number correct.

CRO Number:
9215
Aer Lingus Limited
Dublin Airport Dublin

104547
RYANAIR DESIGNATED ACTIVITY COMPANY
RYANAIR DUBLIN OFFICE
AIRSIDE BUSINESS PARK
SWORDS
CO. DUBLIN

You can track your claim by logging into the online account and watch the 15 day countdown!

Unlike the airlines they even supply an email address for support sccadmin@courts.ie.

Be great is people could let us know how they get on with the process and when they get the money!

Galego

Anyone has heard back yet?

And question.

Can you add multiples flights in the same claim?

I booked the return flight separately.

irelandspurs

Galego wrote: »

Anyone has heard back yet?

And question.

Can you add multiples flights in the same claim?

I booked the return flight separately.

5 more days left on my claim. I add 2 reservation numbers for seperate flights in my claim.

paddy19

Galego wrote: »

Anyone has heard back yet?

And question.

Can you add multiples flights in the same claim?

I booked the return flight separately.

Aer Lingus questioned the refund request even thought I included their case number.

Then the paid up!

Maximum claim is €2,000 so can include multiple claims as long as your under this limit.

Make sure you include the email from Aer Lingus confirming your refund request.

Good luck, keep us updated on how you get on.

michellie

I have 2 flights. dub to lanzarote with aerlingus 24th June and lanzarote to dub with Ryanair on 8th July. I'm assuming I have to wait until those dates to apply for this?

paddy19

michellie wrote: »

I have 2 flights. dub to lanzarote with aerlingus 24th June and lanzarote to dub with Ryanair on 8th July. I'm assuming I have to wait until those dates to apply for this?

If the airline officially cancels (not "sold out") before the fly date then you can claim.

Aer Lingus only tend to officially cancel within 3 days of the flight.
Ryanair give about 2 weeks notice.

Proof of cancellation is not usually an issue but no harm to include
a screenshot.

michellie

paddy19 wrote: »

If the airline officially cancels (not "sold out") before the fly date then you can claim.

Aer Lingus only tend to officially cancel within 3 days of the flight.
Ryanair give about 2 weeks notice.

Proof of cancellation is not usually an issue but no harm to include
a screenshot.

Thank you Paddy, you're great help.

MAJJ

We moved fights from March to October flying to London City airport for a quick transfer. Are Lingus changes destination airport to Heathrow. Is this allowed?

Sorry just realised this in the SCC thread, please ignore or mod please move

VG31

MAJJ wrote: »

We moved fights from March to October flying to London City airport for a quick transfer. Are Lingus changes destination airport to Heathrow. Is this allowed?

This happened to me as well. You can request a refund with the form online.

https://www.aerlingus.com/support/forms/disrupted-flight-refund-form/

Beersmith

Do you think its worth chancing putting two claimants on the same claim? Eg husband and wife have sets of different flights booked?

paddy19

MAJJ wrote: »

We moved fights from March to October flying to London City airport for a quick transfer. Are Lingus changes destination airport to Heathrow. Is this allowed?

Sorry just realised this in the SCC thread, please ignore or mod please move

No worries.
Martin Lewis has a full explanation here.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-changes/

Pauliedragon

Not sure how it might apply to the scc but several European governments including our own are lobbying the EU to suspend the law that requires airlines to give refunds on cancelled flights but to allow them to give vouchers instead.

paddy19

Beersmith wrote: »

Do you think its worth chancing putting two claimants on the same claim? Eg husband and wife have sets of different flights booked?

I'd try it.

Make the claimant husband and wife.

Worst that happens is the Registrar will tell you it's a no no before you spend your €25.

paddy19

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Not sure how it might apply to the scc but several European governments including our own are lobbying the EU to suspend the law that requires airlines to give refunds on cancelled flights but to allow them to give vouchers instead.

The EU is thankfully resisting so far.

The greater danger is that Shane Ross/Heather Humphreys would try to bring a mandatory voucher into Irish law.

This would effectively halt both the SCC and www.Flightrights.ie.

Don't hang around if you need the cash, your money could be locked up in the Michael O'Leary/Willie Walsh Bank for 12 to 18 months!

irelandspurs

Will be 15 days on Wednesday, still no response from Ryanair.

Galego

irelandspurs wrote: »

Will be 15 days on Wednesday, still no response from Ryanair.

Almost there. Please keep us posted.

Muahahaha

irelandspurs wrote: »

Will be 15 days on Wednesday, still no response from Ryanair.

Id say there will be no response either and the SCC will rule in your favour. Its not worth airlines time spending 200 or 300 euro on a solicitor to go down to the SCC to defend these claims that they are likely to lose anyway. They'll just pay up but they dont want it getting into the media for fear loads more people will use this process.

irelandspurs

Day 15 today, so hopefully hear something tomorrow? I've another flight to Portugal cancelled and refund requested but no voucher offer as of yet, I'm tempted to start another scc now in anticipation of the voucher offer.

limabromac

irelandspurs wrote: »

Day 15 today, so hopefully hear something tomorrow? I've another flight to Portugal cancelled and refund requested but no voucher offer as of yet, I'm tempted to start another scc now in anticipation of the voucher offer.

Fingers crossed for ya... It'll be great to see this go smoothly as it gives everyone some hope. ..keep us updated..

jonnny68

is this 15 working days folks or just 15 calendar days?

mine should be up for next week, let us know folks if you get a refund.

Mad Benny

jonnny68 wrote: »

is this 15 working days folks or just 15 calendar days?

I've initiated a SCC claim too.

Muahahaha

The EU has now ruled that all passengers are due a refund for cancelled flights. Ryanair and Aer Lingus lobbying of the Irish governemt to send that letter suspending refunds has not worked.

THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION has said airlines must give passengers refunds for cancelled flights, and that vouchers alone won’t do.

The commission, which has been under pressure to change regulations, said that under EU rules, travellers have the right to choose between vouchers or cash reimbursement for cancelled transport tickets.

“We cannot judge on the economic situation of the individual…this is why we say this is your right, full stop,” executive vice-president of the commission Margrethe Vestager said during this morning’s press conference on resuming travel and rebooting Europe’s tourism sector.

Vestager said that letters are being sent out to member states “as we speak” to remind them of this right.

The EU body had been under pressure to change the rules on how airline passengers can be refunded for cancelled flight in order to solve current cash flow constraints of airlines. The Irish government was among 13 member states who co-signed a letter calling for the commission to temporarily allow airlines to issue vouchers instead of refunds to passengers whose flights have been cancelled due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

Under EU Regulation 261/2014, airlines must reimburse passengers whose flights are cancelled the choice of a refund or a re-routing within seven days.

https://www.thejournal.ie/airlines-flights-cancelled-refund-vouchers-eu-commission-5097851-May2020/

Thats pretty unequivocal. So for anyone thinking of starting a SCC claim Id save your 25 euro as the EU are now clear you are due a refund.

irelandspurs

Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.

JohnCleary

irelandspurs wrote: »

Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.

You do NOT need a solicitor for SCC.

irelandspurs

JohnCleary wrote: »

You do NOT need a solicitor for SCC.

Dear Sir,
I am forwarding a Notice of Dispute that I have received from solicitors acting for Ryanair.
As they will not agree to pay your claim do you want to withdraw your claim or do you want it to proceed to a Court hearing ?
Please note the following points regarding a Court hearing ;
1. you must attend the hearing in person (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure and Failure to Resolve a Claim)
2. you will have to pay your own expenses associated with attending the Court hearing (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure then Introduction and Types of Claims Dealt with)
3. it is not possible to choose your own hearing date.
Yours sincerely,
Dermot O'Byrne,
Small Claims Registrar,
District Court,
4 Bridge Street, Swords, Co. Dublin

limabromac

irelandspurs wrote: »

Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.

That's mad!!! Why are they refusing the Claim??? Is this normal...?

sugarman20

irelandspurs wrote: »

Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.

I can't believe they did that. It's bizarre. Surely after today's ruling it's black and white. Are you going to go?

irelandspurs

irelandspurs wrote: »

Dear Sir,
I am forwarding a Notice of Dispute that I have received from solicitors acting for Ryanair.
As they will not agree to pay your claim do you want to withdraw your claim or do you want it to proceed to a Court hearing ?
Please note the following points regarding a Court hearing ;
1. you must attend the hearing in person (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure and Failure to Resolve a Claim)
2. you will have to pay your own expenses associated with attending the Court hearing (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure then Introduction and Types of Claims Dealt with)
3. it is not possible to choose your own hearing date.
Yours sincerely,
Dermot O'Byrne,
Small Claims Registrar,
District Court,
4 Bridge Street, Swords, Co. Dublin

You still don't need a solicitor. Just go to the SCC hearing.

T-Bird

irelandspurs wrote: »

Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.

Got same. There is a lot of writing to it. I think it's stating that they are not refusing to pay but are offering vouchers first, therefore complying.

JohnCleary

irelandspurs wrote: »

Dear Sir,
I am forwarding a Notice of Dispute that I have received from solicitors acting for Ryanair.
As they will not agree to pay your claim do you want to withdraw your claim or do you want it to proceed to a Court hearing ?
Please note the following points regarding a Court hearing ;
1. you must attend the hearing in person (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure and Failure to Resolve a Claim)
2. you will have to pay your own expenses associated with attending the Court hearing (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure then Introduction and Types of Claims Dealt with)
3. it is not possible to choose your own hearing date.
Yours sincerely,
Dermot O'Byrne,
Small Claims Registrar,
District Court,
4 Bridge Street, Swords, Co. Dublin

Not sure why you quoted my statement in the above. My point still stands.

Mad Benny

T-Bird wrote: »

Got same. There is a lot of writing to it. I think it's stating that they are not refusing to pay but are offering vouchers first, therefore complying.

I presume they don't want to make it easy for people. I'm sure I'll get the same. I'll happily go and Ryanair can pay their solicitors to attend the small claims court.

irelandspurs

I won't take mine any further so will just wait for the refund in time but hopefully others that are in a position to attend, do and get their money back sooner.

Wuff Wuff

So if the SCC hasn't worked is your 25e for the claim gone?

But if a kick in the teeth for those who are dropping it and waiting

Pkiernan

My flight was cancelled.
RA offered me a change or a refund.

I chose refund. No offer of a voucher.

They said it'll take 20 days to process.

irelandspurs

Wuff Wuff wrote: »

So if the SCC hasn't worked is your 25e for the claim gone?

But if a kick in the teeth for those who are dropping it and waiting

Yeah €25 gone but will cost me more taking time off work to attend and getting up there. At the moment I'm in a position where I can wait for it, it just angered me the way they are going about things that's why I started scc and hoped it would get resolved within the 15 days. I know a lot of others won't be and hope they are able to attend and get their much needed money back soon.

irelandspurs

I presume it would be the swords court you would have to attend?

Sheep Shagger

Was always sceptical of the SCC route TBH.

Paddy19 seemed to think it was the answer to everything in multiple threads though, hopefully it still works out for people.

pc7

Pkiernan wrote: »

My flight was cancelled.
RA offered me a change or a refund.

I chose refund. No offer of a voucher.

They said it'll take 20 days to process.

Was this after EU statement?

ShatterProof

pc7 wrote: »

Was this after EU statement?

I was offered the same options last Thursday. Before the statement.

steinbock123

Pkiernan wrote: »

My flight was cancelled.
RA offered me a change or a refund.

I chose refund. No offer of a voucher.

They said it'll take 20 days to process.

Yeah , I got that too on the 7th May. I’m happy to wait for a refund as I’ve no interest in a voucher.
Then yesterday, Ryanair send me an email with a voucher attached. Once you open the voucher, you are automatically accepting it , according to the email, so DON’T open it if you want a refund.
Isn’t it strange how Ryanair are saying that the vouchers can be processed automatically, but that a refund has to be done manually and that due to Covid regulations and social distancing they don’t have enough staff and because they have millions of passengers to deal with that a refund will take ages.
Yet when these millions of passengers book the flights that the money can be taken instantly and automatically??

Pkiernan

pc7 wrote: »

Was this after EU statement?

Before.

I'm hoping they'll do what they're saying they'll do.

Pkiernan

steinbock123 wrote: »

Yeah , I got that too on the 7th May. I’m happy to wait for a refund as I’ve no interest in a voucher.
Then yesterday, Ryanair send me an email with a voucher attached. Once you open the voucher, you are automatically accepting it , according to the email, so DON’T open it if you want a refund...

I cant seeing a SCC judge agreeing with RA that clicking an attachment waives statutory rights!

Pkiernan

OmegaGene wrote: »

Nice and easy, how long in advance did they let you know about the cancellation

14 days in advance, so they avoid compensation payments I reckon.

Caranica

Pkiernan wrote: »

Before.

I'm hoping they'll do what they're saying they'll do.

Sorry but you're deluded if you believe you'll get a refund in 20 days. I'm waiting 64 days and counting. I selected refund too.

limabromac

Pkiernan wrote: »

My flight was cancelled.
RA offered me a change or a refund.

I chose refund. No offer of a voucher.

They said it'll take 20 days to process.

That's the route they take with everyone...

Cancelled
Refund or reschedule
Choose refund
Wait 20 days
Receive voucher
To get yourself back in the refund Queue you need to chat with them...


If you choose refund you will get a voucher in 20 days...

Galego

limabromac wrote: »

That's the route they take with everyone...

Cancelled
Refund or reschedule
Choose refund
Wait 20 days
Receive voucher
To get yourself back in the refund Queue you need to chat with them...


If you choose refund you will get a voucher in 20 days...

Sure about that?

Their website says "Customers who choose not to accept a free move or voucher will receive their refund in due course, once this crisis has passed. Over the coming weeks and months, we will be working hard to process refund requests as quickly as we can. "

limabromac

Galego wrote: »

Sure about that?

Their website says "Customers who choose not to accept a free move or voucher will receive their refund in due course, once this crisis has passed. Over the coming weeks and months, we will be working hard to process refund requests as quickly as we can. "

Ryanairs "in due course" is when the voucher has expired after the year...so if you want to wait then that's great. I didn't click on the link to accept the voucher...I clicked on the link to refuse the voucher and accept a refund, this brings you to the chat room...
The other option is to not click on anything and you just wait... (Not one person since March has received a refund btw)

Padraig Mor

sugarman20 wrote: »

I can't believe they did that. It's bizarre. Surely after today's ruling it's black and white. Are you going to go?

I can well believe it and said that I thought as much would happen a couple of weeks ago (I have two SCC claims in BTW). If there were just a few claims I'd imagine Ryanair would let it slide (and a few early ones do seem to have gone through) but with the undoubted tsunami of claims coming in, it makes perfect sense for Ryanair to fight them rather than setting some form of precedent and everyone else piling into the SCC as well. I would imagine they'd lose in court but the simple prospect of court action will scare off 95%+ of claimants. As to Ryanair paying for solicitors, one presumes they have their own in house legal team and should have little additional cost so?

One thing I would wonder is whether they will treat claims differently by geographical location - i.e. roll over without going to court for claimants in the Dublin area (i.e. who can get to the court easily), but insist on court for people who would have to make a journey (e.g. I'm in Cork and I will in me hole be saying yes to a case on an unknown date in Swords).

Galego

limabromac wrote: »

Ryanairs "in due course" is when the voucher has expired after the year...so if you want to wait then that's great. I didn't click on the link to accept the voucher...I clicked on the link to refuse the voucher and accept a refund, this brings you to the chat room...
The other option is to not click on anything and you just wait... (Not one person since March has received a refund btw)

I clicked on the below:

"If you do not wish to accept this voucher option and wish to move your flight or request a refund, please click here to contact us. Please note that as our customer care agents are required to work from home to limit the spread of COVID-19 virus, payment security restrictions prevent us from processing refunds as quickly as we would like to."

That brings you to this page:

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/refund-voucher

It doesnt seem to bring straight to a chatroom.

limabromac

Galego wrote: »

I clicked on the below:

"If you do not wish to accept this voucher option and wish to move your flight or request a refund, please click here to contact us. Please note that as our customer care agents are required to work from home to limit the spread of COVID-19 virus, payment security restrictions prevent us from processing refunds as quickly as we would like to."

That brings you to this page:

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/refund-voucher

It doesnt seem to bring straight to a chatroom.

I didn't say it brings you straight to the chat room...that would be too easy in Ryanairs universe...to contact Ryanair you would need to chat to them so when you click on the Contact link you will see the chat room option. You could also send them a letter too..

Galego

limabromac wrote: »

I didn't say it brings you straight to the chat room...that would be too easy in Ryanairs universe...to contact Ryanair you would need to chat to them so when you click on the Contact link you will see the chat room option. You could also send them a letter too..

Cool. Thanks.

I had not done that so wasnt aware I had to.