Leaving Cert to be cancelled

Multipass

BoatMad wrote: »

your son is taking a personal decision , thats his civil right

its not his civil right to potentially place others in danger of inflection.

You either accept the social distancing restrictions or you ignore them, schools evaluated the issue ( I know certain teachers were in with measuring tapes etc ) and have reported that they felt it was impossible to adhere to any reasonable social distancing requirements

and what happens if in the middle of a exam a student or staff displays symptoms , shut the whole school , kill the exam mid way through

seriously you've not thinking this through

By August I’d be very surprised if there’s much social distancing left.

lawrencesummers

BoatMad wrote: »

weel , they better get used to it , because in the rest of their lives, they will be graded , promoted and evaluated in a very partisan way , by their bosses ( or their customers) etc

life not fair , never was ( and neither was the LC)

Rubbish.

And drink misspelt rubbish as well by the looks of it.

BoatMad

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Do you know what happens students who can’t cope with exams?

They don’t get the most in demand courses, or go to college at all, and that’s fine because the most in demand courses require a lot of study, learning and examinations.

If a student can’t do a leaving cert then medicine is not for them, or actuary, or flying space rockets, or veterinary, accountancy etc etc, but a lot of Students want to do those courses so there is a legitimate competition to decide on merit who gets them.

rubbish , exam based performance , is no indication of a successful professional , I know loads of " clever clogs " students who made the absolute woeful doctors, engineers , denying places to people who had a huge enthusiasm for the subject and would have given anything to do it

nobody needs 400-500 points to be a GP etc or a engineer etc, the points are not an indication of suitability , merely a way of grading , there are many ways of grading people

lawrencesummers

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I fully agree they are important in regards to potential future careers hence the mocks are nowhere near appropriate to include as part of predictive grading because they can't be judged to be fair and balanced.

I agree with all of that, but they are not going to be ignored because they will be seen as the greatest indicator of a persons probable LC results.

BoatMad

Multipass wrote: »

By August I’d be very surprised if there’s much social distancing left.

surprise away

It wasnt me123

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Do you know what happens students who can’t cope with exams?

.......
If a student can’t do a leaving cert then medicine is not for them, or actuary, or flying space rockets, or veterinary, accountancy etc etc, but a lot of Students want to do those courses so there is a legitimate competition to decide on merit who gets them.

There is a better way of doing it and I have a daughter doing LC this year - so I know first hand the effect its having on students.

No other european country has 1 exam at the end of 12 years of schooling to say whether you get into college or not - they all use work over the 2 years and exams - and so should we.

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Nothing smug about it.

It’s pretty simple to see that you can’t not have colleges take in 1st years and have no students doing courses for one year every year of the next 4.
You can’t then expect to have double the numbers doing the LC next year. The capacity to correct papers won’t exist, the hall space for exams won’t exist. The supervisors won’t be there, the colleges won’t be able to take in twice the Amount of 1st years in 2021.
The jobs market won’t react well to no graduates in 4 years.

Regarding no college first years next year, yes you can do that, quite easily.
How will there be double LC students? You're not getting it. There will only be one class. This year's class.
The jobs market will correct itself.

BoatMad

funny , we accepted that people are awarded degrees, masters and so forth and go on to be awarded qualifications to practice very dangerous activities , like poking around in your head, by typically grads accessed by their " teachers " , ie their peers, yet we are whinging about teachers grading students they have a very good idea of how they perform academically

lawrencesummers

BoatMad wrote: »

rubbish , exam based performance , is no indication of a successful professional , I know loads of " clever clogs " students who made the absolute woeful doctors, engineers , denying places to people who had a huge enthusiasm for the subject and would have given anything to do it

nobody needs 400-500 points to be a GP etc or a engineer etc, the points are not an indication of suitability , merely a way of grading , there are many ways of grading people

I hate to break it to you but Exam based performance is universally used, and is a far better indicator than Perceived enthusiasm.

Let’s say there are 1000 places in college for studying medicine next year, but with the recent pandemic and a sense of duty / enthusiasm / interest 2000 kids want on the course. Tell me a better way of deciding how a sixth year student gets rejected or accepted? Other than enthusiasm.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Regarding no college first years next year, yes you can do that, quite easily.
How will there be double LC students? You're not getting it. There will only be one class. This year's class.
The jobs market will correct itself.

how is subjecting kids to another year any solution , jeepers what an idea

where do you put the secondary first years ?

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

Regarding no college first years next year, yes you can do that, quite easily.
How will there be double LC students? You're not getting it. There will only be one class. This year's class.
The jobs market will correct itself.

Read over the posts.
oP wanted to cancel this year’s 6th years and have them do it next year.

lawrencesummers

BoatMad wrote: »

how is subjecting kids to another year any solution , jeepers what an idea

where do you put the secondary first years ?

Into second year presumably.

BoatMad

I hate to break it to you but Exam based performance is universally used, and is a far better indicator than Perceived enthusiasm.

Very few advancements are solely based on exam performance , because in most situations , people have realised that theres more to good advancement then solely a performance on a hour on a day , regurgitating stock answers .

and many other nations have realised the same thing for secondary schools also

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

how is subjecting kids to another year any solution , jeepers what an idea

where do you put the secondary first years ?

Subjecting them?
It's called repeating the year. Not that radical.

BoatMad

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Into second year presumably.

two 2nd years , schools are already over crowded , so that will be comfortable

lawrencesummers

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

There is a better way of doing it and I have a daughter doing LC this year - so I know first hand the effect its having on students.

No other european country has 1 exam at the end of 12 years of schooling to say whether you get into college or not - they all use work over the 2 years and exams - and so should we.

We should.
I agree the system isn’t prefect.

But the problem that’s trying to be solved isn’t the entire LC approach. The Dept has tried to redesign the JC and that’s proven difficult.

The issue is this years class, fix the puncture before you talk about replacing the engine.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Subjecting them?
It's called repeating the year. Not that radical.

for a very small number , yes , but not the majority of 60,000 students

this is leaving aside where schools can put them and where the staff would be sourced to teach them, its an utterly daft idea

lawrencesummers

BoatMad wrote: »

two 2nd years , schools are already over crowded , so that will be comfortable

But couldn’t we come up with a solution for the old second years. Something original like putting them into third year maybe?

BoatMad

lawrencesummers wrote: »

We should.
I agree the system isn’t prefect.

But the problem that’s trying to be solved isn’t the entire LC approach. The Dept has tried to redesign the JC and that’s proven difficult.

The issue is this years class, fix the puncture before you talk about replacing the engine.

no , we have an extraordinary situation , just apply an extraordinary solution and move on, whats was being suggested was to ignore the puncture and drive on with the tyre about to fall off.

lawrencesummers

BoatMad wrote: »

Very few advancements are solely based on exam performance , because in most situations , people have realised that theres more to good advancement then solely a performance on a hour on a day , regurgitating stock answers .

and many other nations have realised the same thing for secondary schools also

That’s great.
But professions in many areas do require exams and they ain’t going anywhere.

BoatMad

lawrencesummers wrote: »

But couldn’t we come up with a solution for the old second years. Something original like putting them into third year maybe?

if you force a repeat year you end up with a double class some where , jeepers

lawrencesummers

BoatMad wrote: »

no , we have an extraordinary situation , just apply an extraordinary solution and move on, whats was being suggested was to ignore the puncture and drive on with the tyre about to fall off.

And your solution which provides impartiality, fairness, checks and balances is what exactly?

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

for a very small number , yes , but not the majority of 60,000 students

this is leaving aside where schools can put them and where the staff would be sourced to teach them, its an utterly daft idea

The only backlog is in the kids waiting to enter junior infants. And there is a gap in 3rd level that carries through until 4th year.

lawrencesummers

BoatMad wrote: »

if you force a repeat year you end up with a double class some where , jeepers

Well done, you got there eventually.

BoatMad

lawrencesummers wrote: »

That’s great.
But professions in many areas do require exams and they ain’t going anywhere.

no-one is suggesting doing away with exams , but in all professions , you get " repeats " , you can try again , you have combinations of exams, and interviews etc , past performance reviews etc

its a multifaceted approach , the LC is a dinosaur

BoatMad

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Well done, you got there eventually.

it was you suggesting the approach , I was ridiculing it . thankfully you seem to have learned that

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

The only backlog is in the kids waiting to enter junior infants. And there is a gap in 3rd level that carries through until 4th year.

thats not the issue, the issue is you have to accommodate a class , that you hadst expected to do so , but you have all the other classes queued up behind them. or do you force them all to stay in their year for another year !!!

sure why not miss off the whole of the school attendants and their parents , rather then just a proportion of 60,000

lawrencesummers

BoatMad wrote: »

it was you suggesting the approach , I was ridiculing it . thankfully you seem to have learned that

No you didn’t get there my bad.

BoatMad

lawrencesummers wrote: »

No you didn’t get there my bad.

keep taking the pills , the reality will dawn

lawrencesummers

BoatMad wrote: »

keep taking the pills , the reality will dawn

What reality is that?