Leaving Cert to be cancelled

pc7

Its should have been something like, 30% your mocks, 30% teacher or continuous assessment, 40% open book assignment at home.

nthclare

My young lads nearly 19, he said fck the leaving cert... he's going to apply for college as a mature student when he's 23..

Whether it goes ahead or not he couldn't give a sh1t, I'm proud of my lad he has his ducks in a row, his peace of mind comes before mine that's for sure.

He's not letting the system break him down, he's going to use the system to build himself up.

I'm not one of those parents who puts pressure on kid's, like my own parents once I was over 18 as long as I didn't bring the guard's home, didn't disrupt the house, or drank at home I was ok..

I didn't break the link My son's dyslexic like myself so he finds it hard to put word's together, they jump all over the place.

Anyhow he'll probably work on the farm for the next year with his grandfather, make money travel for a year or two, then do the mature student thing..

is_that_so

History Queen wrote: »

And who will decide this data and how it should be evaluated and quality control it?

Criteria can be defined via DoE in conjunction with stakeholders, the rest of it is down to the integrity and ability of teachers and there will be absolutely no way to do QC on that. The only thing that might help a little in this situation IMO is an external input, via reviews. Either way a sudden switch like this is a poor substitute.

History Queen

pc7 wrote: »

Its should have been something like, 30% your mocks, 30% teacher or continuous assessment, 40% open book assignment at home.

I see your logic. We are trying to do something similar in my school to assess other year groups instead of 100% summer tests, we've already run in to issues with what to do about students who were absent, say at Christmas, when we wanted to use the Christmas test as 30% of their grade. We're currently discussing how to deal with this. Does the student lose that 30% or do we just assess them using different criteria to their classmates?

History Queen

is_that_so wrote: »

Criteria can be defined via DoE in conjunction with stakeholders, the rest of it is down to the integrity and ability of teachers and there will be absolutely no way to do QC on that. The only thing that might help a little in this situation IMO is an external input, via reviews. Either way a sudden switch like this is a poor substitute.

That's exactly my point teachers are stakeholders but are poorly consulted and then expected to roll out a flawed system and take the brunt of the criticism and deal with the fallout.

Multipass

GazzaL wrote: »

If we were a nation with balls it could have gone ahead. A poor reflection on the country.

This- I feel so ashamed by the example we’re setting to the youngsters. Panic and hide out at home. The bright side of this might be that now students have a summer again, and the smart ones will look to countrys offering some hope. Looking into ways my son can travel, and get a job for the summer in a place with some sense. Probably Germany. And no, he won’t be quarantined for 10 years when he returns to lockdown Ireland.

Downlinz

History Queen wrote: »

That's exactly my point teachers are stakeholders but are poorly consulted and then expected to roll out a flawed system and take the brunt of the criticism and deal with the fallout.

Can teaching unions refuse to participate in this? Is that likely to happen?

plodder

micar wrote: »

As a secondary school teacher...... a few €€€€ thrown my way will be rewarded with a higher than expected grade










Btw....I'm not actually a secondary school teacher

Research from the UK says that 75% of predicted grades are over estimates anyway. My son did History in the LC and 20% of the mark is awarded for a project done during the year. His teacher basically told us that anyone who doesn't get the full 20% has a donkey for a teacher. And that is nothing to do with predicted grades, just that most teachers will do everything in their power so their students do well.

is_that_so

History Queen wrote: »

That's exactly my point teachers are stakeholders but are poorly consulted and then expected to roll out a flawed system and take the brunt of the criticism and deal with the fallout.

Absolutely. As I said earlier, education has been cast aside, like almost everything else, to deal with the health crisis. What you would like to see come out of cabinet is something along the lines of we haven't quite decided just yet but the Minister will have a framework document by a specific date.

What is more likely IMO is an announcement that the LC is off and the Minister will now go off and figure out what to do in its place. I'd say said minister will be very keen to see a new government in place to deal with that.

Millionaire only not

nthclare wrote: »

My young lads nearly 19, he said fck the leaving cert... he's going to apply for college as a mature student when he's 23..

Whether it goes ahead or not he couldn't give a sh1t, I'm proud of my lad he has his ducks in a row, his peace of mind comes before mine that's for sure.

He's not letting the system break him down, he's going to use the system to build himself up.

I'm not one of those parents who puts pressure on kid's, like my own parents once I was over 18 as long as I didn't bring the guard's home, didn't disrupt the house, or drank at home I was ok..

I didn't break the link My son's dyslexic like myself so he finds it hard to put word's together, they jump all over the place.

Anyhow he'll probably work on the farm for the next year with his grandfather, make money travel for a year or two, then do the mature student thing..

Or sorry to say his poor grandfather will pass on ,he’ll end up doing a green cert and never leave home .

BoatMad

Good call to cancel it, can’t see any means by which it could be safe and abide by social distancing

pc7

History Queen wrote: »

I see your logic. We are trying to do something similar in my school to assess other year groups instead of 100% summer tests, we've already run in to issues with what to do about students who were absent, say at Christmas, when we wanted to use the Christmas test as 30% of their grade. We're currently discussing how to deal with this. Does the student lose that 30% or do we just assess them using different criteria to their classmates?

There is no easy answer, its rough for all concerned, but I wish the media would stop the drama, it really isn't the end of the world, the leaving isnt everything. There are other ways and routes to college and work, it doesn't define you, the drama we go on with now is crazy. I'm so relieved it wasn't like that when I did mine in the 90's.

History Queen

Downlinz wrote: »

Can teaching unions refuse to participate in this? Is that likely to happen?

I would doubt very much that that would happen. None of us wamt to add to uncertainty and student suffering and refusing to do something at this late stage would add to the turmoil. Students have already been treated appallingly.

plodder

If students can't be spread out sufficiently to achieve social distancing then how is it going to be possible to re-open workplaces?

Alex86Eire

I've boys who failed their pres and have been working so hard over the past few weeks. They would have done well. I'm gutted for them if its just their past exams that are taken into account.

Millionaire only not

nthclare wrote: »

My young lads nearly 19, he said fck the leaving cert... he's going to apply for college as a mature student when he's 23..

Whether it goes ahead or not he couldn't give a sh1t, I'm proud of my lad he has his ducks in a row, his peace of mind comes before mine that's for sure.

He's not letting the system break him down, he's going to use the system to build himself up.

I'm not one of those parents who puts pressure on kid's, like my own parents once I was over 18 as long as I didn't bring the guard's home, didn't disrupt the house, or drank at home I was ok..

I didn't break the link My son's dyslexic like myself so he finds it hard to put word's together, they jump all over the place.

Anyhow he'll probably work on the farm for the next year with his grandfather, make money travel for a year or two, then do the mature student thing..

Or sorry to say his poor grandfather will pass on ,he’ll end up doing a green cert and never leave home .

suicide_circus

BoatMad wrote: »

Good call to cancel it, can’t see any means by which it could be safe and abide by social distancing

this. we have made a god out of social distancing and the leaving cert is but a sacrifice to appease it.

BoatMad

suicide_circus wrote: »

this. we have made a god out of social distancing and the leaving cert is but a sacrifice to appease it.

Actually I agree with you, but we can’t have it both ways

Downlinz

BoatMad wrote: »

Good call to cancel it, can’t see any means by which it could be safe and abide by social distancing

If that's the verdict then what happens 4 weeks later than the proposed date when schools are due to re-open?

BoatMad

Downlinz wrote: »

If that's the verdict then what happens 4 weeks later than the proposed date when schools are due to re-open?

Schools currently haven’t a clue , unless SD is relaxed it’s expected to be one half morning , one half afternoon

How does say a school designed for 600 , which currently has nearly 800, practice SD , it can’t

BoatMad

Alex86Eire wrote: »

I've boys who failed their pres and have been working so hard over the past few weeks. They would have done well. I'm gutted for them if its just their past exams that are taken into account.

What do they intend to do after LC

suicide_circus

Downlinz wrote: »

If that's the verdict then what happens 4 weeks later than the proposed date when schools are due to re-open?

this is it. social distancing is not a sustainable way to live.

BoatMad

suicide_circus wrote: »

this is it. social distancing is not a sustainable way to live.

Agreed , and expediency will win out , we’ll see it eliminated by the autumn, more then likely replaced by masks ( as is if they are any good anyway )

Donald Trump

beggars_bush wrote: »

I feel sorry for the students who have been studying really hard at home since March 13th

Jesus. That kind of attitude astounds me.

Lazy students who might have otherwise spent their days on porn and facetime and videogames might have actually went and learned a few things and you feel sorry for them? they were hardly suffering the opportunity cost of not being able to do something else during that time were they?



Learning doesn't stop when you finish school........unless you go onto be something like a teacher yourself :pac:

Boggles

pc7 wrote: »

There is no easy answer, its rough for all concerned, but I wish the media would stop the drama, it really isn't the end of the world, the leaving isnt everything. There are other ways and routes to college and work, it doesn't define you, the drama we go on with now is crazy. I'm so relieved it wasn't like that when I did mine in the 90's.

I remember the absolute dread of that cúnting exam.

If someone told me it had been cancelled I would have cart wheeled to Donegal.

plodder

Donald Trump wrote: »

Jesus. That kind of attitude astounds me.

Lazy students who might have otherwise spent their days on porn and facetime and videogames might have actually went and learned a few things and you feel sorry for them? they were hardly suffering the opportunity cost of not being able to do something else during that time were they?



Learning doesn't stop when you finish school........unless you go onto be something like a teacher yourself :pac:

I haven't seen a post that reads more into what someone else said, that they didn't say.

Thank God I'm not affected by this farrago. I feel sorry for anyone who is.

dwayneshintzy

Donald Trump wrote: »

Jesus. That kind of attitude astounds me.

Lazy students who might have otherwise spent their days on porn and facetime and videogames might have actually went and learned a few things and you feel sorry for them? they were hardly suffering the opportunity cost of not being able to do something else during that time were they?



Learning doesn't stop when you finish school........unless you go onto be something like a teacher yourself :pac:

Sorry, but what exactly do you mean by this?

splinter65

El Vino wrote: »

I have a lot of sympathy for the Leaving cert students, their stress levels must be through the roof with the uncertainty.
My son was due to sit his A-levels this year, one of the first things the UK government was cancel summer exams, in fact it was one of the few things they were out in front of. The big difference between the UK and Ireland though is how important predicted grades as these are what universities use to make conditional offers to Students. Teachers place great store in the accuracy of their predictions as it reflects badly on the school if you are wildly out and also actually does the student a disservice as he will potentially have to go into the bun fight that is university clearing if he misses the grades needed for his predicted offers and could miss out on a course he may other wise have been offered originally.

Also as London is so big I barely know any of his teachers, there is little chance to influence them. I have never seen any of them socially outside of school events. This may of course not be true in rural Wales or Cornwall. The down side is it doesn't suit someone who would pull it out of the bag in the last few months with Grinds and cramming. Luckily he has worked hard consistently and would be delighted with his predicted grades.

Well reared well balanced students with appropriately supportive parents have nothing to fear from predictive grades and shouldn’t find the process stressful.

daheff

is_that_so wrote: »

BTW apps, like other software have no respect for real world dates. The app would also be considered an aid to an effort, not a panacea and requires a decent take up, 25% I think Harris said. One reason why it has changed is a switch to the decentralised data approach, i.e. most data in the phone. It'll be out when it's ready!

this is a point i made elsewhere....why are we building it from scratch when apps like this already exist in multiple other countries?? Why reinvent the wheel....just buy the source code and use that

BrianBoru00

Jesus, scrolled through the thread again there.

There's a fair amount of populist comments on here. "Test in regurgitation and rote learning", "doesn't prepare" , "seen as the be all and end all " are common themes.......

Rote learning is not a bad thing. It's how we do most of our learning believe it or not.....learning to walk, learning to cycle, learning to talk, . We do something, make mistakes, correct the mistakes and repeat.
We cannot go back and take part in the construction of newGrange to understand history. and for most it's not practical to live in France for three years to become immersed in the language. Most teachers however include practical modules in their classes. E.g. a history teacher assigning project to 1st years to build a medieval city out of cardboard , or bringing the class on day trip to newGrange or to glasnevin and then a walking tour of Dublin where context can be given to the people involved in 1916-1922.
That's one subject, one example - of course not every class will experience it. But across all subjects in the vast majority of schools there is a large amount of that type of education going on.
The education is more than the sum of its parts.
Those trips or project s are more often than not, not graded.
Leaving cert is the most important exam in your life AT THAT POINT IN TIME. usually by the following year it's end of 1st year exams.

Then there's the whole social aspect of schools. Talk to teachers about a particular year group. Generally in second year there's a high proportion of dickheads as they ve grown in confidence and cockiness - by end of JC they start to mature , Ty is nice get to know you time 5th years can begin to improve and 6th they generally show maturity. There is in general (apart from grind schools) a large extra curricular program where students (who may not normally) can excel in a musical, debating, sports, young scientist, junk couture and hundreds of other programs.
They are not graded.
if the LC is cancelled surely it's only fair that teachers can include a students overall contribution to school life over their five /six years???

Pressure is largely from the media and parents. But the "stress" students are under will prepare for far more pressurised situations. Deadlines in work , mortgage applications, job loss, marriage breakup etc. Etc

By cancelling it s sending out a message it's ok to avoid just not do something.