Leaving Cert to be cancelled

Stacksofwacks

How are these predictive grades calculated? Is it an average of the scores a student had been getting in their exams up til now or does the teacher just pull it out of their behind? surely remote assignments would be a fairer way e.g give an essay to write in german etc or do that and then put previous grades into the mix

Scuid Mhór

jprender wrote: »

There is no doubt whatsoever that on the whole, students will receive grades in excess of what they deserved.

College is going to be a bloodbath next year with students doing courses that they aren't able for.

When they have to drop out and start paying fees if they want to change course, watch the bitching and moaning notch up.
Unfair, stress, anxiety, bollox, mental health, more bollox etc etc

Even if students receive grades in excess of what they deserve, there's still limited places in each college course, hence our general system of supply and demand. Points inflation will be mirrored in a points-required-per-course inflation. The system will balance itself out.

Rodin

Gael23 wrote: »

There will be no international students next year so points under traditional system would have fallen

Will be less money to fund Irish places then.

py2006

Not all teachers are like Mary Poppins at the top of a class. Some discriminate and take a dislike to the odd one or two out of the 30+ in front of them. I've seen it first hand at 3rd level too.

It's human nature, there are always bad apples. That's why I don't think this will be 100% fair.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

machiavellianme wrote: »

Agreed, that can also happen. The proposals are farcical.
If it had been the case when I did the leaving, I'd have ended up with a poor result. I barely turned up to school in 5th year and when I did, I was a problem for most of the teachers. I dropped out entirely after Christmas in 6th year to help my father on the farm and didn't sit any mocks. Apart from sowing crops and harvesting silage, I quickly realised that I had no grá for farming and sat the LC. 600 points, a 1st class honours degree and PhD in electronic engineering later and I'm in a very different world than any of my teachers expected.

Anyone who doesn't sit their exams is doing themselves and their peers a disservice.

You got 600 points after doing barely showing up in 5th year, dropping out school halfway through 6th year and not sitting the mocks? Yeah, that didn’t happen. At least try to make it believable. Even the brightest kids have to put the work in for those results.

BillyBiggs

khalessi wrote: »

You have not got a clue at all. Not an ounce of truth I am surprised you can walk with the chip on your shoulder. Really teacher couldnt give a damn what your job is, time to move into the 21st century

No chip on my shoulder. I hope posters are right about all kids being equal, id like that myself. Admittedly, I’m basing my outlook on primary schools i know, where money talks with principals and teachers. Maybe what I'm suggesting isn't p.c., but its foolish to think that all children are treated the same in every school.

Eric Cartman

I really pity the entrants to some high points courses next year , they're going to lose out because the people sitting next to them are completely unable for the wrote learning involved and going to diminish the ability to learn. business, architecture, medicine and law particularly.

The_Brood

I think the sore feelings over this come from the fact that so many of us, in Ireland and abroad, have broken our backs with blood, sweat and tears to labor under extremely stressful exams, and even many of us who were 'successful' in terms of grades and went on to get good degrees have been absolutely fraked raw in the ass by the employment market, delivered unto soulless low-level jobs useful for nothing but to build the profits of corporations. All of the heard work has been pissed on in the trash by the capitalist system, and there is deep frustration and anger at anyone who might be seen to be spared from a big part of this process, aka the leaving cert in this case.

But in reality the anger should be aimed at all the institutions - the education system, the job markets, governments allowing corporations to practically enslave people worldwide.

Mike3287

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I really pity the entrants to some high points courses next year , they're going to lose out because the people sitting next to them are completely unable for the wrote learning involved and going to diminish the ability to learn. business, architecture, medicine and law particularly.

Rote

eastie17

mickdw wrote: »

I think cancelling and offering predicted grades is sensible.
The schools will have lots of info to go off from past results to project work to mocks.
A fair grade can surely be arrived at.

You clearly have no idea what your talking about Mick.
Yes it'll be a fair grade if the random number generator falls on the numbers an individual student think is fair

y0ssar1an22

Gael23 wrote: »

There will be no international students next year so points under traditional system would have fallen

any idea what sort of % that represents?

eastie17

History Queen wrote: »

There was no appeal for additional invigilators this year. That suggest they didn't try to get enough to run the exams or they felt they had an adequate number.

More likely they didn't even try to put together a plan thats why no appeal for invigilators.
This all along has felt like its ass backwards. Announce what the plan is and then try to figure it out, supposed to be the other way around.
I guarantee you they dont even know how this new plan is going to work and it will all go to **** when they start to get into the details.
I'm even starting to hear that they are now going to have row back on the 100% for all in the orals, that they will have to be assessed by teachers now also.

khalessi

BillyBiggs wrote: »

No chip on my shoulder. I hope posters are right about all kids being equal, id like that myself. Admittedly, I’m basing my outlook on primary schools i know, where money talks with principals and teachers. Maybe what I'm suggesting isn't p.c., but its foolish to think that all children are treated the same in every school.

In primary schools it is exactly the same teachers have more to be getting on with then who someone's mother or father is. We have lives and that type of things died out years ago.

BillyBiggs

BillyBiggs wrote: »

So you’d be just as impressed by a binman parent at a parent teacher meeting, as you would be by say a top ranking solicitor. Get real.

At least the bin man is doing an honest job!

suicide_circus

it's not "fair" in so far as

a. the students didn't know this was how they would be graded

and

b. they are being treated differently to all the students that came before them

but i have a sneaking suspicion that all the D average students will be looking at a C minus leaving cert score as so on.

Truthvader

Disaster in my view. The Leaving Cert for all its fault was undoubtedly fair. This teachers pet competition will unjustly reward nice well adjusted kids as against those who won't "play the game" but had set themselves up to do the business on the day. Timidity and conformity will be rewarded. A generation of middle men and pedestrians is born while those actually able to produce the goods on the day are condemned.

Treppen

Calm down lads the department has issued this helpful 1 page document for teachers to base their decisions on.

BillyBiggs

khalessi wrote: »

In primary schools it is exactly the same teachers have more to be getting on with then who someone's mother or father is. We have lives and that type of things died out years ago.

Ah come on please. Why do people buy new cars, fancy houses and expensive clothes, if others aren't impressed by same. As another poster said not every teacher is like Mary Poppins.

joe40

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Ah come on please. Why do people buy new cars, fancy houses and expensive clothes, if others aren't impressed by same. As another poster said not every teacher is like Mary Poppins.

Are you impressed by those things. If you were a teacher would a pupil's socioeconomic group cloud your judgement.
Why assume a typical teacher would not display the same fairness as I'm sure you would do so yourself.

Mitch Connor

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Ah come on please. Why do people buy new cars, fancy houses and expensive clothes, if others aren't impressed by same. As another poster said not every teacher is like Mary Poppins.

because they like the cars, the house or the clothes.

You must be an extremely judgemental person, given that is the mindset you ascribe to others.

1123heavy

Will teachers genuinely grant an E grade to students who they honestly suspected would not pass a particular exam? They will fail the student and risk the backlash? Let's say they did, there are issues posed.

Often you'll find parents overestimate their child's abilities, even more than the students sometimes do.

Let's say a teacher grants an E, parents and child both disagree, what about the mental health of the student then? Is there going to be a complaint's commission set up?

How about the flip side, the student's who are good but for whatever reason just did not get on with their teacher, but they could pull the results out the bag on the day (this was me in 1 or 2 subjects). Instead of granting a B, the teacher will grant a C or D. This student now has to miss a full year and resit the exams and miss what should have been their first year in college to get justice, or worse just accept their lower grade when they deserved a lot more.

This system is a total disaster. The fairest and most reasonable way would have been to have the exams in August, they go into college then 1 month later at the end of september. 1 month holiday not enough for them? Delay entry till october and grant a 2 week christmas holiday instead of 1 month.

BrianBoru00

Mike3287 wrote: »

Rote

rote

thegetawaycar

1123heavy wrote: »

Will teachers genuinely grant an E grade to students who they honestly suspected would not pass a particular exam? They will fail the student and risk the backlash? Let's say they did, there are issues posed.

Often you'll find parents overestimate their child's abilities, even more than the students sometimes do.

Let's say a teacher grants an E, parents and child both disagree, what about the mental health of the student then? Is there going to be a complaint's commission set up?

How about the flip side, the student's who are good but for whatever reason just did not get on with their teacher, but they could pull the results out the bag on the day (this was me in 1 or 2 subjects). Instead of granting a B, the teacher will grant a C or D. This student now has to miss a full year and resit the exams and miss what should have been their first year in college to get justice, or worse just accept their lower grade when they deserved a lot more.

This system is a total disaster. The fairest and most reasonable way would have been to have the exams in August, they go into college then 1 month later at the end of september. 1 month holiday not enough for them? Delay entry till october and grant a 2 week christmas holiday instead of 1 month.

Too much sense in that post!
It's clearly not safe to have 1 year of students sit exams in August - it is safe for all years to be back in September:rolleyes:

It's clearly fair to change what students have been working towards for 6 years and tell them that exams that were practice/irrelevant are now being used to make up part of your leaving grade that does matter.

The one thing you can be sure of is that the students that refused to take part in certain sports in schools geared towards those sports will be regretting it now.

The students that challenged ideas in subjective subjects (English) will be regretting it too.

Teachers will be put under massive pressure by students (some teachers are parents to their own students), parents, friends etc... due to the influence their opinion has

It's a disaster and will 100% keep our courts nice and busy over the next few years.

Shaney Boy

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Can’t imagine how all this will work in a small town, where everybody knows everybody. Will anybody give poor grades to the kids of the local publican/ doctor/ pharmacist/ Superintendent?

The big challenge here is teachers kids and how they are assessed by fellow teachers. Teachers in general have an inflated view of their station so they won't take kindly to their Johnny and Mary not getting top marks.One of my relatives who is a principal of a primary school is infamous in family circles for throwing his weight around and using his influence in the local secondary school. Nearly everyone of the kids gets an award at the end of the year.

It wasnt me123

Sawduck wrote: »

My geography teacher hated me and loved the druggie crew, he told me I would fail higher level, I ended up getting a B, if he had his choice of grades to give out I'd have failed it

No you wouldn't because if you had been consistently a B for years 5 & 6 then the person checking your geography teachers mark would have changed it to ensure it was in line with your previous marks.

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/SeanDefoe/status/1258777322532024320?s=19

CrabRevolution

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You got 600 points after doing barely showing up in 5th year, dropping out school halfway through 6th year and not sitting the mocks? Yeah, that didn’t happen. At least try to make it believable. Even the brightest kids have to put the work in for those results.

These threads are magnets for a lot of "I did nothing at school, failed all my mocks and the teachers had it in for me but then I got 600 points and now I'm chief brain surgeon at the Mayo Clinic and at weekends I'm head of rocketry at NASA" yarns.

Alternatively they'll claim they actually got a poor LC, but that only proves the worthlessness of the LC because they went on to become chief brain surgeon...

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1258756845012946945?s=19

Interesting to say the least

It wasnt me123

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

How are these predictive grades calculated? Is it an average of the scores a student had been getting in their exams up til now or does the teacher just pull it out of their behind? surely remote assignments would be a fairer way e.g give an essay to write in german etc or do that and then put previous grades into the mix

Why would you say that?

Teachers have been teaching the same children (ususally) for the last two years - they have given projects, class work and tests for those two years plus exams at Christmas and mocks, etc.

That is what they will base it on - real facts not your nonsense - teachers are educated people not idiots - if you have been a straight A student and get a predictive mark of D then you will have it reviewed - but that isn't going to happen - there will be layers of teachers/year heads/heads of school checking to be sure.

BillyBiggs

Shaney Boy wrote: »

The big challenge here is teachers kids and how they are assessed by fellow teachers. Teachers in general have an inflated view of their station so they won't take kindly to their Johnny and Mary not getting top marks.One of my relatives who is a principal of a primary school is infamous in family circles for throwing his weight around and using his influence in the local secondary school. Nearly everyone of the kids gets an award at the end of the year.

Thank you. Finally somebody who agrees with me, that certain people in society have/demand influence within schools. (I’ve been told here that i am elitist and have a chip on my shoulder, for making the same point).