Leaving Cert to be cancelled

Newbie20

Panjandrums wrote: »

Why are you all complaining?
79% of 24,000 Leaving Cert students didn't want the exam to go ahead.

The funny thing is the CAO points system doesn't reflect the job opportunities and salary available.

Take construction/built environment for example , there was a 4% drop in demand for the courses in 2017/2018, despite there being a shortage of skills. Starting salaries are far above most 500+ points courses.

Does that 79% have any relevance? Sure of course there is a lot of students don’t want to do the Leaving Cert. If they did the same survey next year you’d get similar results and the year after. Like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas.

martingriff

hotmail.com wrote: »

My point is that weaker students are not going to end up doing higher points courses. The academically stronger students will end up in the higher points courses.

Some, a minority, might lose out. But this happens every year anyway.

But the weaker student may still have been doing higher level as there be more points lower down then at a grade in Pass and they if they are good at cramming so could get a better mark so may not have got Trinity for medicine but may have got another college then Trinity for medicine. Or you could have the student who appears week as they do not give a crap until the real thing and get great results. It happens

martingriff

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

they can use that fancy new printer.

places not ready? classrooms across the country are already equipped with desks and chairs.

the leaving cert can be carried out if there is the will for it. its scheduled for about 7 weeks time. dont know why they jumped the gun wth cancelling and using predicted grades.

awful decision IMO. per their own roadmap, the country will be just about opended up by then

It has to be 1 or the other it can not be both as that would be a total mess and lead to even more protests or legal challenges is someone with predictive marks got over a person going the LC or vice versa.

hotmail.com

martingriff wrote: »

But the weaker student may still have been doing higher level as there be more points lower down then at a grade in Pass and they if they are good at cramming so could get a better mark so may not have got Trinity for medicine but may have got another college then Trinity for medicine. Or you could have the student who appears week as they do not give a crap until the real thing and get great results. It happens

That sounds fair. The crammers lose out.

Continuous assessments would eliminate the LC cramming nonsense.

endacl

[IMG][/img]via Imgflip Meme Generator

Newbie20

giveitholly wrote: »

Sure the teachers can't work during their summer holidays,Unions called the shots here

Of course you do realise that predictive grades will lead to more work for teachers than if the Leaving went ahead? But I suppose you can’t let the truth get in the way of your teacher bashing.

thomas 123

hotmail.com wrote: »

That sounds fair. The crammers lose out.

Continuous assessments would eliminate the LC cramming nonsense.

It’s not really fair though is it? The leaving cert is after all
a test of regurgitation and not actual knowledge in most subjects.

History Queen

hotmail.com wrote: »

At 3 euro an hour, it must have took you 2 or 3 hours per script?

Hard to give you an answer on that as i didn't correct per script. I'd correct in bundles of scripts and correct by section so focus on doing all the poetry questions together for example as the marking scheme for that section would be fresh in my head making it quicker than correcting by script and having to refresh my memory every time i went on to the next section. You get faster as the days go by but revising scripys and totting marks also takes time.

JC English is corrected online now and is faster than it was by paper.much more efficient but lower paid (rate per script) not sure if it works out morelucritive when you work ot out per hour.

Raises another interesting question, how can teachers just out of college be expected to predict grades with the same accuracy as teachers with years of experience? Or teachers with examiner experience vs those with no examiner experience?

hotmail.com

thomas 123 wrote: »

It’s not really fair though is it? The leaving cert is after all
a test of regurgitation and not actual knowledge in most subjects.

Agreed, and like someone said earlier, maybe this might lead to some changes in the LC.

I can't see it happening. Look at the fuss the teachers made about the JC reforms.

Donald Trump

Newbie20 wrote: »

Of course you do realise that predictive grades will lead to more work for teachers than if the Leaving went ahead? But I suppose you can’t let the truth get in the way of your teacher bashing.

Yes, it might lead to some more work for the teachers compared to doing nothing until September but this way they can't argue for more money or try to hold the process to ransom.



They are currently getting paid full wages and would otherwise be working. They, or their unions, cannot realistically complain that they will be "working" remotely.



It is probably why the decision is being made now.......

Notoldorwise

Newbie20 wrote: »

Of course you do realise that predictive grades will lead to more work for teachers than if the Leaving went ahead? But I suppose you can’t let the truth get in the way of your teacher bashing.

How?

hotmail.com

History Queen wrote: »

Hard to give you an answer on that as i didn't correct per script. I'd correct in bundles of scripts and correct by section so focus on doing all the poetry questions together for example as the marking scheme for that section would be fresh in my head making it quicker than correcting by script and having to refresh my memory every time i went on to the next section. You get faster as the days go by but revising scripys and totting marks also takes time.

JC English is corrected online now and is faster than it was by paper.much more efficient but lower paid (rate per script) not sure if it works out morelucritive when you work ot out per hour.

But essentially, at that pace, you must have been correcting for 16 hours a day to get the scripts marked.

Did you consider that it might not be for you. I know examiners can bail if they're under pressure.

History Queen

hotmail.com wrote: »

Agreed, and like someone said earlier, maybe this might lead to some changes in the LC.

I can't see it happening. Look at the fuss the teachers made about the JC reforms.

Lc reforms already underway and jc reform "fuss"as you call it was well founded

martingriff

hotmail.com wrote: »

That sounds fair. The crammers lose out.

Continuous assessments would eliminate the LC cramming nonsense.

I would agree it would but this was not something that was known ahead of time. If you are going to be graded on assessment and predictive marking you would want to know ahead of time

Donald Trump

hotmail.com wrote: »

But essentially, at that pace, you must have been correcting for 16 hours a day to get the scripts marked.

Did you consider that it might not be for you. I know examiners can bail if they're under pressure.

I've corrected exams. Not second level ones. But they do take a long time to do it when you want to do it correctly

History Queen

hotmail.com wrote: »

But essentially, at that pace, you must have been correcting for 16 hours a day to get the scripts marked.

Did you consider that it might not be for you. I know examiners can bail if they're under pressure.

I worked between 8 and 12 hour days. That's normal enough for my subject. more experienced examiners than me probably worked faster but not hugely so.

History Queen

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes, it might lead to some more work for the teachers compared to doing nothing until September but this way they can't argue for more money or try to hold the process to ransom.



They are currently getting paid full wages and would otherwise be working. They, or their unions, cannot realistically complain that they will be "working" remotely.



It is probably why the decision is being made now.......

You realise we are teaching our other year groups?

Donald Trump

History Queen wrote: »

You realise we are teaching our other year groups?

And you'll give your other year groups a year end mark/grade too. Same as you would normally.


It is not as if you are being tasked with coming up with your own papers and marking schemes for the LC students.


It's not going to be easy. I wouldn't like to do it. Give a student a bad grade and you'll have a black mark against you from that student/family forever if it they think it causes them to miss out on their college place.

stephenjmcd

A good friend gives grinds to LC students in history, just off the phone with her and 1 of the students she has 2 hours with twice a week, wouldn't have put much effort into 5th year but copped himself on this year and was doing decent enough in 6th year, nothing but study since the mocks, now he's devastated as going off predictive grades and his previous 5th year exams etc they aren't reflective as to where he's at now and the work he's put into the exams coming up, he's worried even more now.

It's just an awful state of affairs, expect multiple high court cases over the summer once college places are decided based on predictive grades.

Newbie20

Newbie20 wrote: »

Of course you do realise that predictive grades will lead to more work for teachers than if the Leaving went ahead? But I suppose you can’t let the truth get in the way of your teacher bashing.

Yes. And that's why I don't think the unions will go for it. I think everyone will repeat the year, from LC right down to junior infants. No freshers into college this Autumn.

combat14

stephenjmcd wrote: »

A good friend gives grinds to LC students in history, just off the phone with her and 1 of the students she has 2 hours with twice a week, wouldn't have put much effort into 5th year but copped himself on this year and was doing decent enough in 6th year, nothing but study since the mocks, now he's devastated as going off predictive grades and his previous 5th year exams etc they aren't reflective as to where he's at now and the work he's put into the exams coming up, he's worried even more now.

It's just an awful state of affairs, expect multiple high court cases over the summer once college places are decided based on predictive grades.

courts not doing much at the moment and solicitors virtually impossible to get hold of .. not sure what it will be like in august when they traditionally stop for a month

Newbie20

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes, it might lead to some more work for the teachers compared to doing nothing until September but this way they can't argue for more money or try to hold the process to ransom.



They are currently getting paid full wages and would otherwise be working. They, or their unions, cannot realistically complain that they will be "working" remotely.



It is probably why the decision is being made now.......

“Would otherwise be working”
The fact that you don’t seem to realise that teachers are working remotely with all years since March 12th renders whatever point you are trying to make complete nonsense.

GazzaL

There will be quite a lot of students out there tonight that will be very worried now. Their results have been taken out of their hands. After all the work they've done over the last 6 years, they could be penalised by teachers who don't like them, teachers who don't rate them, a poor performance in their Christmas or mock exams. All the work they did over the last few months could be for nothing. I really feel sorry for them.

Our country really has left down so many young people, even those who would be happy with it being cancelled as it does them a disservice too. It's telling that some of the biggest political nutcases are celebrating this like they've won the World Cup.

JDMC2

I just want my child to be here tomorrow....and the next day.....and the next day

Donald Trump

stephenjmcd wrote: »

A good friend gives grinds to LC students in history, just off the phone with her and 1 of the students she has 2 hours with twice a week, wouldn't have put much effort into 5th year but copped himself on this year and was doing decent enough in 6th year, nothing but study since the mocks, now he's devastated as going off predictive grades and his previous 5th year exams etc they aren't reflective as to where he's at now and the work he's put into the exams coming up, he's worried even more now.

It's just an awful state of affairs, expect multiple high court cases over the summer once college places are decided based on predictive grades.

No more cash in hand nixers for the poor tutor either!


Hopefully after all the history grinds the student can see the situational irony in the fact that, having finally learned some history, they now find out that their grades will be decided based on their own bad history!

History Queen

Donald Trump wrote: »

And you'll give your other year groups a year end mark/grade too. Same as you would normally.


It is not as if you are being tasked with coming up with your own papers and marking schemes for the LC students.


It's not going to be easy. I wouldn't like to do it. Give a student a bad grade and you'll have a black mark against you from that student/family forever if it they think it causes them to miss out on their college place.

Coming up with papers and marking schemes is something we do for house exams regularly (albeit much shortened versions of state exams). We're currently doing it for our JC cohort who we now have to offer assessments to because of last minute back peddling by the department.

BoatMad

I am happy its cancelled, it never seemed consistent with teh health advice that the exams would be capable of being held safely

predicated grades will suit the vast majority , if they get into the 3rd level they want , they dont actually care what the leaving cert then says

The few that might want to challenge any given grade can be facilitated in sitting an exam at a future date , Id say very few will bother

teachers wont penalise, if anything they will be over lenient. Anyway the grades can be crossed checked and based on school records of mocks, junior cert and school exams , if anything it will dial out those students perpetually hampered by leaving cert nerves

good call

I cant even see how schools will reopen in september and practice social distancing .

boege

Would it make sense to drop all these sub grades now and just have a ballpark grade, like the (very) old days i.e. A,B,C,D,E....

Can you fairly say a student is a C2 and not a C1 and, if you think so then how do you defend a mark?

Donald Trump

Newbie20 wrote: »

“Would otherwise be working”
The fact that you don’t seem to realise that teachers are working remotely with all years since March 12th renders whatever point you are trying to make complete nonsense.

Do you expect much online attendance or assignments handed in from your sixth years over the next couple of weeks? Use that time FFS.

stephenjmcd

Donald Trump wrote: »

No more cash in hand nixers for the poor tutor either!


Hopefully after all the history grinds the student can see the situational irony in the fact that, having finally learned some history, they now find out that their grades will be decided based on their own bad history!

What on earth are you on about ? It's not cash in hand, shes self employed and has her own limited company set up for them, 5 others on the books covering other subjects while her degree and classroom experience is in history.

So students who weren't that academic but got a bit of cop on and wanted to knuckle down for last year get punished??

You certainly sound like Donald Trump anyway.