The 350 a week was a catastrophic and costly mistake

joseywhales

is_that_so wrote: »

Not really, ours will be treated as part of taxable income. Once this ends people will return to work or go on benefits.

I dont understand this, so the government would recoup between 20-50% of the benefit not 100% right?

is_that_so

joseywhales wrote: »

I dont understand this, so the government would recoup between 20-50% of the benefit not 100% right?

No, not that much. It is classified as income but for most people it'll probably have little to no effect on account of the personal monthly tax credits.

mosii

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Self employed people can only claim if they have ceased trading during the period. Many will have kept working albeit at a reduced pace and so get nothing.

I'd also make the point that the "wealthy" self employed are likely to have paid into the system via their taxes for years, so claiming a welfare payment due to adverse economic circumstances is wholly justified based on their previous earnings.

I actually dont mind the fact the self employed are getting the payment,my point is ,the likes of mcdonagh and other employers and indeed individuals on this site,are constantly attacking individuals working 20 or so hours a week,(and who are clearly only getting by),for getiing the full 350,while not a mention of the very wealthy self employed,who are getting this payment.As i said already,i know a builder ,who has 2 large houses and whose wife is working, and is very well off,and he got this payment.I also know a publican,whose wife is also getting the payment,where is the fairness in these two examples.

mosii

mosii wrote: »

I actually dont mind the fact the self employed are getting the payment,my point is ,the likes of mcdonagh and other employers and indeed individuals on this site,are constantly attacking individuals working 20 or so hours a week,(and who are clearly only getting by),for getiing the full 350,while not a mention of the very wealthy self employed,who are getting this payment.As i said already,i know a builder ,who has 2 large houses and whose wife is working, and is very well off,and he got this payment.I also know a publican,whose wife is also getting the payment,where is the fairness in these two examples.

Nothing wrong with either in your examples getting the payment. It was a flat rate emergency payment.

mosii

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing wrong with either in your examples getting the payment. It was a flat rate emergency payment.

I agree,and also nothing wrong withe the young lad/girl working in a chipper getting it either.:o

Jinglejangle69

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Self employed people can only claim if they have ceased trading during the period. Many will have kept working albeit at a reduced pace and so get nothing.

I'd also make the point that the "wealthy" self employed are likely to have paid into the system via their taxes for years, so claiming a welfare payment due to adverse economic circumstances is wholly justified based on their previous earnings.

That's not true.

If you're self employed and your turnover is down 25% you can claim it.

I know of self employed people coming to an arrangement with clients to date their invoices before this started so it makes their turnover look down but while claiming the payment.

LuasSimon

Pat McDonagh seems to have made Supermacs a minimum wage employment, are all the others ie McDonalds & Burger King the same .

These all have VERY profitable operations could they not pay staff a reasonable amount and still make loads ??

Jinglejangle69

LuasSimon wrote: »

Pat McDonagh seems to have made Supermacs a minimum wage employment, are all the others ie McDonalds & Burger King the same .

These all have VERY profitable operations could they not pay staff a reasonable amount and still make loads ??

Why would they when there is loads of people who will take the jobs at minimum wage?

StefanFal

I know of people working/living in Norway in receipt of the C-19 payment. They haven't lived in Ireland for years and it still got processed and lodged to Irish account every week.

There is something seriously wrong here.

pgj2015

StefanFal wrote: »

I know of people working/living in Norway in receipt of the C-19 payment. They haven't lived in Ireland for years and it still got processed and lodged to Irish account every week.

There is something seriously wrong here.

Report them.

Jim Root

LuasSimon wrote: »

I see Pat Mcdonagh of Supermacs giving out that many of his staff aren’t inclined to comeback to their minimum wage jobs with him . It’s amazing how hugely profitable companies like Pat McDonaghs have to pay nearly all their staff minimum wage .
Used always admire him taking on the travellers staging accidents on his premises but it turns out he’s another Larry Goodman .

It’s minimum wage because the role is not rocket science.

RandomViewer

joseywhales wrote: »

I dont understand this, so the government would recoup between 20-50% of the benefit not 100% right?

It's the same as wage, first €300 is roughly tax free

RandomViewer

suicide_circus wrote: »

the state should run fast food joints!

You'd have to remove "fast" from the title

LuasSimon

Jim Root wrote: »

It’s minimum wage because the role is not rocket science.

Where do you stop with it’s not rocket science ? Teaching 5 or 6 years olds is hardly rocket science ?... been an accountant imputing numbers into sage is hardly rocket science ?
Will we all be on minimum wage soon ? Bar Larry Goodman , JP and Pat McDonagh who can have a swimming pool full of 500 euro notes ??

RocketRaccoon

Jim Root wrote: »

It’s minimum wage because the role is not rocket science.

It's not rocket science but they should be paid a lot more, imagine the **** they have to put up with on a daily basis from absolute scum who look down their nose at them. And that's before even mentioning the drunks.

splinter65

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

It's not rocket science but they should be paid a lot more, imagine the **** they have to put up with on a daily basis from absolute scum who look down their nose at them. And that's before even mentioning the drunks.

Their remuneration matches their skills. Nurses and doctors and paramedics put up with the same scum but get paid multiples of minimum wage because of their skills. Nothing to stop anyone working in Supermac’s from retraining to get a better paid job. Lots of Supermacs staff are actually only working there while they train separately for a better paid job.
Do you think a guy frying chips in supermacs should be paid the same as a doctor?

RocketRaccoon

splinter65 wrote: »

Their remuneration matches their skills. Nurses and doctors and paramedics put up with the same scum but get paid multiples of minimum wage because of their skills. Nothing to stop anyone working in Supermac’s from retraining to get a better paid job. Lots of Supermacs staff are actually only working there while they train separately for a better paid job.
Do you think a guy frying chips in supermacs should be paid the same as a doctor?

Could you point out where I said they should be paid the same as a doctor?

They should be paid at least the equivalent of the Aldi/Lidl living wage.

newuser99999

LuasSimon wrote: »

Where do you stop with it’s not rocket science ? Teaching 5 or 6 years olds is hardly rocket science ?... been an accountant imputing numbers into sage is hardly rocket science ?
Will we all be on minimum wage soon ? Bar Larry Goodman , JP and Pat McDonagh who can have a swimming pool full of 500 euro notes ??

Please don’t compare doing 4 to 6 years in college to be a teacher or 4 years in college plus plenty of exams afterwards to be an account to flipping ****ing burgers for a summer.

newuser99999

newuser99999 wrote: »

Please don’t compare doing 4 to 6 years in college to be a teacher or 4 years in college plus plenty of exams afterwards to be an account to flipping ****ing burgers for a summer.

Indeed only 1 job is deemed essential work by the government for the cv19 crisis

newuser99999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Indeed only 1 job is deemed essential work by the government for the cv19 crisis

The same government that cancels a leaving cert because they got bullied into it on twitter. LOL

newuser99999

newuser99999 wrote: »

The same government that cancels a leaving cert because they got bullied into it on twitter. LOL

Meh....irrelevant really to topic at hand,

GocRh

pgj2015 wrote: »

Report them.

Report to whom? Unless the OP happens to know their PPS there's no way to investigate his claims.

The government should be doing its job and making sure that there's at least a PAYE tax payment lodged this year before approving claims.
We're not supposed to be reporting people because the government has been irresponsible and incompetent.

Tomrota

splinter65 wrote: »

Their remuneration matches their skills. Nurses and doctors and paramedics put up with the same scum but get paid multiples of minimum wage because of their skills. Nothing to stop anyone working in Supermac’s from retraining to get a better paid job. Lots of Supermacs staff are actually only working there while they train separately for a better paid job.
Do you think a guy frying chips in supermacs should be paid the same as a doctor?

Not everyone is in such a privileged position to be able to do that, or even have the mental bandwidth to do that, hence why poverty exists. Also, do you think that if everyone working minimum wage trained as a doctor, economist, or whatever, that there would be a job there for them? No. The majority of the work in this country is low paid work and that is here to stay no matter who goes to college, so you’re saying that those people deserve to be on the poverty line just for not going to college?

Let’s say everyone in SuperMacs, McDonald’s, Costa Coffee, etc. Suddenly have “better skills” tomorrow, then what? Nobody is there to do the majority of the work in Ireland, and there will be very few jobs available to actually use their skills, hence they HAVE to go back to their SuperMacs job and take minimum wage. It’s ridiculous argument that people can “better themselves” when people mention getting people off poverty wages in minimum wage jobs.

Ninthlife

GocRh wrote: »

Report to whom? Unless the OP happens to know their PPS there's no way to investigate his claims.

The government should be doing its job and making sure that there's at least a PAYE tax payment lodged this year before approving claims.
We're not supposed to be reporting people because the government has been irresponsible and incompetent.

There is going to be a huge compliance project into both the Temporary Wage Subsidy Sceme and the Pandemic Unemployment Payment by both Revenue and Social Protection

Fred Cryton

Tomrota wrote: »

Not everyone is in such a privileged position to be able to do that, or even have the mental bandwidth to do that, hence why poverty exists. Also, do you think that if everyone working minimum wage trained as a doctor, economist, or whatever, that there would be a job there for them? No. The majority of the work in this country is low paid work and that is here to stay no matter who goes to college, so you’re saying that those people deserve to be on the poverty line just for not going to college?

Let’s say everyone in SuperMacs, McDonald’s, Costa Coffee, etc. Suddenly have “better skills” tomorrow, then what? Nobody is there to do the majority of the work in Ireland, and there will be very few jobs available to actually use their skills, hence they HAVE to go back to their SuperMacs job and take minimum wage. It’s ridiculous argument that people can “better themselves” when people mention getting people off poverty wages in minimum wage jobs.

You're missing one point - the economic pie can be expanded, it's not about splitting up the existing economic pie.


If everyone working in those McJobs you mentioned upskilled tomorrow, huge numbers of new businesses would be founded and those people would probably move into higher paid areas like plumbing or electrician, areas where labour is vitally needed. Our economic pie (GDP) becomes larger.


What would happen then is we would import thousands of foreign people to work in the McJobs, and the cycle starts over. They upskill, and expand the pie again.


But all along the McJob pays the same low rate, because it's a low skill job. It's the people who need to change, adapt, upskill etc.

Jizique

Fred Cryton wrote: »

You're missing one point - the economic pie can be expanded, it's not about splitting up the existing economic pie.


If everyone working in those McJobs you mentioned upskilled tomorrow, huge numbers of new businesses would be founded and those people would probably move into higher paid areas like plumbing or electrician, areas where labour is vitally needed. Our economic pie (GDP) becomes larger.


What would happen then is we would import thousands of foreign people to work in the McJobs, and the cycle starts over. They upskill, and expand the pie again.


But all along the McJob pays the same low rate, because it's a low skill job. It's the people who need to change, adapt, upskill etc.

Can’t see the plumbers being happy with all these newly skilled entrants into the profession coming along and undercutting their rates

Fred Cryton

Jizique wrote: »

Can’t see the plumbers being happy with all these newly skilled entrants into the profession coming along and undercutting their rates

If our economic pie (GDP) has expanded, there will be room for plenty more plumbers at the same rip off rates.

KyussB

Training loads of new plumbers/electricians increases the supply of those skilled roles - but you need an equivalent increase in demand for those roles (e.g. through increased investment in public or private construction), otherwise there's a glut of those skilled workers, which pushes down wages for such workers in general.

The economic pie grows from the Demand side - not the Supply side.

The Job Guarantee happens to be one of the best ways for training up low wage workers into higher skilled roles - while also ensuring there is enough demand during economic downturns...

splinter65

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Could you point out where I said they should be paid the same as a doctor?

They should be paid at least the equivalent of the Aldi/Lidl living wage.

Aldi and Lidl can afford to pay that because they are international companies with limitless resources, Aldi and Lidl per shop wouldn’t have anything like the overheads Supermacs have, most Aldi and Lidl staff are full time permanent, most Supermacs staff are part time and temporary.

Jizique

splinter65 wrote: »

Aldi and Lidl can afford to pay that because they are international companies with limitless resources, Aldi and Lidl per shop wouldn’t have anything like the overheads Supermacs have, most Aldi and Lidl staff are full time permanent, most Supermacs staff are part time and temporary.

They could be paid the living wage, but then prices would have to rise and people would eat less of the rubbish food and might continue to eat at home.
The fast food business model is based on low wages which border on exploitation. Of course, rents on Eyre Sq and O’Connell st are expensive too, leaving little scope for quality produce.