The 350 a week was a catastrophic and costly mistake

Fred Cryton

is_that_so wrote: »

I do love how good news turns into misery in 10 minutes! Baby steps!

Why baby steps. Just put everyone on the €203 tomorrow. Job done.

Meeoow

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Why baby steps. Just put everyone on the €203 tomorrow. Job done.

In fairness, most people on 203 have HAP, fuel allowance, and a load of other allowances, and medical card. So PUP on 350 isn't that great for people working a full week with a mortgage and bills.

Fred Cryton

Meeoow wrote: »

In fairness, most people on 203 have HAP, fuel allowance, and a load of other allowances, and medical card. So PUP on 350 isn't that great for people working a full week with a mortgage and bills.

You looking at it backwards. Neither group is working. The purpose of welfare should not be to keep people in a great lifestyle if they're not contributing to society. It should be a bare minimum temporary safety net.

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

You looking at it backwards. Neither group is working. The purpose of welfare should not be to keep people in a great lifestyle if they're not contributing to society. It should be a bare minimum temporary safety net.

And that’s exactly what they get. A short term emergency payment to see them through the crisis.

It’s great to see fraudulent claims being found out. https://www.rte.ie/news/crime/2020/0603/1145147-money-laundering-arrests/

Fred Cryton

Deleted User wrote: »

And that’s exactly what they get. A short term emergency payment to see them through the crisis.

It’s great to see fraudulent claims being found out. https://www.rte.ie/news/crime/2020/0603/1145147-money-laundering-arrests/

I think you missed the bare minimum part. 350 for a student working part time is not bare minimum.

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

I think you missed the bare minimum part. 350 for a student working part time is not bare minimum.

How many students/part time workers have been claiming the emergency payment?

Over 60,000 workers have already returned to work and ended their claims.

Banana Republic 1

Fred Cryton wrote: »

You looking at it backwards. Neither group is working. The purpose of welfare should not be to keep people in a great lifestyle if they're not contributing to society. It should be a bare minimum temporary safety net.

Watch out Batman!, its simple Simon and his band of half wit goons.

From June 29, anyone earning under €199.99 pre Covid, will have their payment reduced to €203. Anyone on €200 and over, will keep the €350 until the payment is phased out.

PTH2009

[Deleted User] wrote: »

From June 29, anyone earning under €199.99 pre Covid, will have their payment reduced to €203. Anyone on €200 and over, will keep the €350 until the payment is phased out.

Tricky enough in my instance

Some weeks before covid I would get xs and os but other weeks would work 20+ hours

beggars_bush

You'd presume a lot of that money will be respent in the economy anyway

Scoundrel

beggars_bush wrote: »

You'd presume a lot of that money will be respent in the economy anyway

Of course it is you'd swear the way some of the right wing nuts on here were going on that people were putting the 350 under their mattress.

Tomrota

Fred Cryton wrote: »

I think you missed the bare minimum part. 350 for a student working part time is not bare minimum.

Students pay more for university than any other EU country. College should be free. Maybe they’ll earn ever so slightly more (probably less in the long run with summer holidays) and pay it off faster.

Idbatterim

:pac:

beggars_bush wrote: »

You'd presume a lot of that money will be respent in the economy anyway

I always hear this. Why dont we bump welfare up to five hundred a week in this case ?

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote:

I always hear this. Why dont we bump welfare up to five hundred a week in this case ?

UBI arguments are growing with many believing there would be more positives than negatives

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

UBI arguments are growing with many believing there would be more positives than negatives

I agree with ubi, but to think you can just Jack up welfare endlessly and claim it will get spent on the local economy so it's great, Is delusional thinking

Scoundrel

Idbatterim wrote: »

:pac:

I always hear this. Why dont we bump welfare up to five hundred a week in this case ?

That would actively discourage work this is an emergency measure to get through a crisis

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote:

I agree with ubi, but to think you can just Jack up welfare endlessly and claim it will get spent on the local economy so it's great, Is delusional thinking

A large proportion of the covid payment would have been spent, online and locally, keeping people in jobs and businesses open. One of the best ways to increase the velocity of money is to increase the money supply

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

A large proportion of the covid payment would have been spent, online and locally, keeping people in jobs and businesses open. One of the best ways to increase the velocity of money is to increase the money supply

The vast majority of the local economy was shut until monday. A lot of it still is....

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

From June 29, anyone earning under €199.99 pre Covid, will have their payment reduced to €203. Anyone on €200 and over, will keep the €350 until the payment is phased out.

So someone who earned 210 for example will still get 350?

salmocab

Idbatterim wrote: »

I agree with ubi, but to think you can just Jack up welfare endlessly and claim it will get spent on the local economy so it's great, Is delusional thinking

To be fair did anyone suggest that? You were the one that said why not Jack it up to 500. Your basically claiming something that nobody suggested was delusional thinking. This is a temporary payment not real social welfare. It will end soon as it's probably played a huge part in keeping people afloat whilst the country got sorted.

Antares35

Antares35 wrote: »

So someone who earned 210 for example will still get 350?

Yes.

beggars_bush

Idbatterim wrote: »

:pac:

I always hear this. Why dont we bump welfare up to five hundred a week in this case ?

most welfare recipients live from week to week as it is and spending their weekly income, I doubt they would be saving too much

I might not approve what a lot of them spend their money on, but it is usually spent locally

completedit

Here, can someone explain. Does zero interest rates mean we can literally borrow our way our not? Clearly austerity doesn't work....until it does. How come Ireland recovered but the Greek economy was destroyed?

Is this an ideological divide that is holding up a ready-made solution? Is it a moral tale based off a dominant protestant minded frugal mentality? So many Irish people seem to be caught up on the idea of debt and 'repaying back what we spent' and this is going to drive the economy down and down.

Banana Republic 1

completedit wrote: »

Here, can someone explain. Does zero interest rates mean we can literally borrow our way our not? Clearly austerity doesn't work....until it does. How come Ireland recovered but the Greek economy was destroyed?

Is this an ideological divide that is holding up a ready-made solution? Is it a moral tale based off a dominant protestant minded frugal mentality? So many Irish people seem to be caught up on the idea of debt and 'repaying back what we spent' and this is going to drive the economy down and down.

Ireland still owes billions but unlike Greece Ireland can live from day to day on the corporate tax it goes knickers down for.

coolshannagh28

completedit wrote: »

Here, can someone explain. Does zero interest rates mean we can literally borrow our way our not? Clearly austerity doesn't work....until it does. How come Ireland recovered but the Greek economy was destroyed?

Is this an ideological divide that is holding up a ready-made solution? Is it a moral tale based off a dominant protestant minded frugal mentality? So many Irish people seem to be caught up on the idea of debt and 'repaying back what we spent' and this is going to drive the economy down and down.

Central banks have decided that since inflation has not been a threat since QE commenced then they will continue to dream up ways to create money to finance the Ponzi scheme and to hell with the consequences.

Wanderer78

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Central banks have decided that since inflation has not been a threat since QE commenced then they will continue to dream up ways to create money to finance the Ponzi scheme and to hell with the consequences.

its not just central banks, its the banking sector as a whole that doesnt give a damn, as debt is their business

Geuze

completedit wrote: »

Here, can someone explain. Does zero interest rates mean we can literally borrow our way our not?

The Govt can borrow cheaply, yes.
There is plenty of demand for our debt, yes.

However, we entered this crisis with very high public debt, as a % of GNI*, although it was falling.

So I would not be complacent.

We have increased the maturity of our public debt.
As time passes, older debt is being replaced with new, low interest debt.
So our interest bill on current debt will fall.

RandomViewer

Idbatterim wrote: »

The vast majority of the local economy was shut until monday. A lot of it still is....

Almost everything around here has been open since early May, paint shop, hardware, garden centre, garage, were all open, pubs, sit down restaurants and bookies closed, quarantine was actually quite relaxing

Fred Cryton

Wanderer78 wrote: »

A large proportion of the covid payment would have been spent, online and locally, keeping people in jobs and businesses open. One of the best ways to increase the velocity of money is to increase the money supply

Again, the stimulus argument is poor because no-one claimed it was a stimulus. You are retro-actively changing what this is - it's a welfare payment.


If it's a stimulus, why do only retail & hospitality get it, why don't i get a tax cut or a cheque in the post?


A tax cut would be a much better stimulus because it would give more disposable income to everyone working and the cash wouldn't have to be borrowed.

mosii

From June 29, anyone earning under €199.99 pre Covid, will have their payment reduced to €203. Anyone on €200 and over, will keep the €350 until the payment is phased out.

How will the know if people are above or below?