The 350 a week was a catastrophic and costly mistake

US2

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you know what 'temporary measure' means?

Oh ya. Like USC was a temporary measure. We will have a new "temporary messaure" deducted from our wages when this is all over

is_that_so

US2 wrote: »

Oh ya. Like USC was a temporary measure. We will have a new "temporary messaure" deducted from our wages when this is all over

I think you would describe USC as an accidental tax but a perfect tax in many ways as almost nobody can avoid it. It may impact our pockets but it delivers €4bn to the exchequer, simply through our being employed.

willbur

Something had to be done ,it was next to impossible to separate the people that needed the 350 and those that
Just jumped on the merry go round ,but they will eventually trace the people when they have to sign on for unemployment assistance when this special payment is over , they will have to prove where they worked and how many hours a week they where in employment before the lock down , it will then come to light they where over paid the benefits
On another note I am lucky to be still working as a third row front line ,I have been off weekends and bank holidays which have been so boring I can only imagine what the rest of you are going through
The ironic thing is on Thursday last my salary didn't appear in my bank account so waited till Friday still no sign got my details by post on the Friday and low and behold all my salary was deducted as income tax
Clearly an error , but would you believe I can't get intouch
With either my payroll people not answering the phones , or indeed the revenue tried both online still no reply
Did something not believe a mistake had been made to take all my money with just checking first it could of caused problem,s for my direct debit,s if there hadn't been sufficient to cover them

Pkiernan

The IRA party wants it to be permanent.

I happen to think it was a good idea, but needs to end soon.

coolshannagh28

boring accountant wrote: »

While I tend to agree with this view it’s enormously condescending to imply the OP doesn’t understand economics.

He/she very rightly pointed out the fact that people will be unwilling to go back to work in low wage jobs and give up their 350 a week and there will be a lack of political will to pull the rug out from under these people. This is a major welfare trap and it will take a politician with balls of steel to get this right. Do you know anyone like this?

Already having an impact , businesses will be unable to open because of this as staff hold out on the payment .

coolshannagh28

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Already having an impact , businesses will be unable to open because of this as staff hold out on the payment .

Source?

It’s a temporary welfare payment. When businesses reopen staff will not be eligible for this payment and will have to apply for unemployment benefits or assistance if they decide not to return to work.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Source?

It’s a temporary welfare payment. When businesses reopen staff will not be eligible for this payment and will have to apply for unemployment benefits or assistance if they decide not to return to work.

Taxable temporary payment.:)

weldoninhio

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you know what 'temporary measure' means?

Does it mean USC?? That’s temporary too isn’t it??

coolshannagh28

Deleted User wrote: »

Source?

It’s a temporary welfare payment. When businesses reopen staff will not be eligible for this payment and will have to apply for unemployment benefits or assistance if they decide not to return to work.

The payment is mooted to continue after the 12 weeks , in my local town several businesses (food)could be open but are not for this reason as staff are happy to stay off and receive the payment.

Jimmy Garlic

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Source?

It’s a temporary welfare payment. When businesses reopen staff will not be eligible for this payment and will have to apply for unemployment benefits or assistance if they decide not to return to work.

If more than half the businesses closed now survive after this fear porn stunt it will be a miracle.

coolshannagh28

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The payment is mooted to continue after the 12 weeks , in my local town several businesses (food)could be open but are not for this reason as staff are happy to stay off and receive the payment.

What nonsense. If a business is capable of reopening, then their staff are not entitled to this payment. No business is going to let their business go down the pan like this.

KyussB

Fred Cryton wrote: »

I have a Masters in the subject, thanks so much. McWilliams is a charaltan and a spoofer, yeah free money into everyones account. Sure why not make everyone a millionaire so, what could possibly go wrong.

Haha - yea and I've a masters in theoretical physics, and am an astronaut.

coolshannagh28

Deleted User wrote: »

What nonsense. If a business is capable of reopening, then their staff are not entitled to this payment. No business is going to let their business go down the pan like this.

Have manners , this will be an ongoing problem , there is no compulsion on staff to return to work when there is a health risk as delineated by the government payment and a business cannot force employees to work ; the primary reason for the payment in the first place .

Balmed Out

Deleted User wrote: »

What nonsense. If a business is capable of reopening, then their staff are not entitled to this payment. No business is going to let their business go down the pan like this.

Social distancing will make many businesses impossible to run a profit and they would probably prefer to remain mothballed.

The_Brood

The question is why was nothing given to the working poor or lower middle class? Even if not the full 350 amount, at least something? They decided to give 350 to people not working, but a big fat 0 to those working away and struggling to meet expenses. They do understand that not everyone working is on a software engineer salary?

Balmed Out

Balmed Out wrote: »

Social distancing will make many businesses impossible to run a profit and they would probably prefer to remain mothballed.

Then that is the choice of the business. Not the employees.
No doubt many businesses are running at a loss at the moment, especially shops having to take on extra staff to ensure social distancing. My local Tesco seems to have doubled its workforce. All tills manned and numerous workers on the floor filling orders for home delivery or click and collect.

salmocab

The_Brood wrote: »

The question is why was nothing given to the working poor or lower middle class? Even if not the full 350 amount, at least something? They decided to give 350 to people not working, but a big fat 0 to those working away and struggling to meet expenses. They do understand that not everyone working is on a software engineer salary?

I’m not sure what your suggesting here, do you mean people who didn’t lose their jobs should have got something?

cameramonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

What nonsense. If a business is capable of reopening, then their staff are not entitled to this payment. No business is going to let their business go down the pan like this.

I have a business that employs many people who who are on the payment.
The day the 350 was announced some of the full time staff said that they were worried about covid and didnt want to come to work. They were being paid a lot more then 350 a week but were worried about their health so they were gone. We then closed and it was two week before we could get enough staff to reopen. We lost many part time staff who would only have been working maybe 10 hours a week or less as they are full time student, they are now on 350 and dont want to work as they can study and receive the payment. As I say we are now reopened but running on reduced staff and opening hours with many of the staff at home on the 350.

I think it is fair enough to give people an option if they wanted to isolate and not risk their families and their own health , also if I was a student working part time I would grab the 350 and stay at home studying.

Jucifer

Akrasia wrote: »

Do you use your masters in economics to work for loan sharks or vulture funds?

Have you ever heard of Keynes or did you waste your degree only reading nonsense like Hayek and Milton Friedman

The absolutely worst thing we could do now is to restrict the money supply and force people to borrow for day to day expenses. The 2008 crash was a liquidity crisis, we need the ECB and Irish Central Bank to flood the place with money to counteract the deflation we are facing, and I think it’s 1000 times better to bail out the ordinary workers than to do what the Yanks have gone and give trillions to the big corporations so they can buy their own shares back off the billionaires and hedge funds

Giving poor people an extra few hundred euros for a few weeks won’t break the economy. Deflation will.

In the global perspective, we also need to consider the impact this crisis will have on developing countries, they could be absolutely wiped out with debt after this, we need to very seriously look at a debt jubilee in the next few years

Of course you might disagree if you think the purpose of economic activity is to facilitate a tiny percentage of the population getting ludicrously wealthy at the expense of everyone else...

While I tend to agree with most of what your points, I am less certain on the debt jubilee point. A lot of pension funds of ordinary workers would be heavily weighted towards debt. I would hope emerging/developing government debt would be a relatively small proportion of that but there are implications for ordinary people for any policies and not just the very wealthy.

Lundstram

The_Brood wrote: »

The question is why was nothing given to the working poor or lower middle class? Even if not the full 350 amount, at least something? They decided to give 350 to people not working, but a big fat 0 to those working away and struggling to meet expenses. They do understand that not everyone working is on a software engineer salary?

I'm still working away, have had more overtime actually. Saving a lot more than usual, price of diesel has gone down, no nights out, no holidays, no takeaways, no cinema, etc.

I think there's a lot of employed people in my situation right now. No traffic on the roads so it's a pleasure driving in and home, and it's good for the head to be working.

If your employer doesn't reward you in some way for working during the pandemic then take it up with them, don't expect reward from an already over-stretched socal welfare.

cameramonkey

cameramonkey wrote: »

I have a business that employs many people who who are on the payment.
The day the 350 was announced some of the full time staff said that they were worried about covid and didnt want to come to work. They were being paid a lot more then 350 a week but were worried about their health so they were gone. We then closed and it was two week before we could get enough staff to reopen. We lost many part time staff who would only have been working maybe 10 hours a week or less as they are full time student, they are now on 350 and dont want to work as they can study and receive the payment. As I say we are now reopened but running on reduced staff and opening hours with many of the staff at home on the 350.

I think it is fair enough to give people an option if they wanted to isolate and not risk their families and their own health , also if I was a student working part time I would grab the 350 and stay at home studying.

Did you not have to provide a letter stating that they were being laid off over the Covid epidemic?

Wanderer78

Jucifer wrote: »

While I tend to agree with most of what your points, I am less certain on the debt jubilee point. A lot of pension funds of ordinary workers would be heavily weighted towards debt. I would hope emerging/developing government debt would be a relatively small proportion of that but there are implications for ordinary people for any policies and not just the very wealthy.

we re slowly heading into a situation whereby debt jubilees make sense, we cannot carry all this debt and prosper, large amounts of debt prevent this, a large proportion of the activities of our financial sector is now parasitic and predatory, debt is its preferred tool, its no longer serving us, debt forgiveness is historically common when these type of situations occur

facehugger99

Politicians are great for writing cheques with taxpayers money if it will buy them political capital.


The response to Covid-19 has demonstrated that principle on a scale never before seen in this country.

Remember when everyone was worried about a €2bn children's hospital? We're currently flushing 10's of billions down the toilet to cover career bureaucrat's and minster's arses.

is_that_so

facehugger99 wrote: »

Politicians are great for writing cheques with taxpayers money if it will buy them political capital.


The response to Covid-19 has demonstrated that principle on a scale never before seen in this country.

Remember when everyone was worried about a €2bn children's hospital? We're currently flushing 10's of billions down the toilet to cover career bureaucrat's and minster's arses.

I believe it's going to be about €3bn! Measures for the economy may cost a good bit more, mind.

Wanderer78

facehugger99 wrote: »

Politicians are great for writing cheques with taxpayers money if it will buy them political capital.


The response to Covid-19 has demonstrated that principle on a scale never before seen in this country.

Remember when everyone was worried about a €2bn children's hospital? We're currently flushing 10's of billions down the toilet to cover career bureaucrat's and minster's arses.

you re currently not being taxed for these payments, ecb loans are covering them, but of course that could change with future budgets, they d be fcuking stupid to do so, but....

satguy

Deleted User wrote: »

08 is the past. It’s gone. Forget it and move on. This pandemic is the current reality. Emergency measures were needed.
Try walking facing forward. You’ll make your way easier than constantly looking over your shoulder.

What happened, happened..

The bankers are rich now,, the scum that avoided paying taxes are rich now.

You can still see them on RTE,,, telling us how we all need to do our bit...

Sleeper12

Fred Cryton wrote:

I have a Masters in the subject, thanks so much. McWilliams is a charaltan and a spoofer, yeah free money into everyones account. Sure why not make everyone a millionaire so, what could possibly go wrong.

You should ask for a refund for the Mexican online course you did because your figures make zero sense at all. In fact many of the figures seem to be plucked from the sky without links to back them up

Wanderer78

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You should ask for a refund for the Mexican online course you did because your figures make zero sense at all. In fact many of the figures seem to be plucked from the sky without links to back them up

fairly common in the world of neoclassical economics to be honest

cameramonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you not have to provide a letter stating that they were being laid off over the Covid epidemic?

We haven't provided any letters to my knowledge yet but I believe that they will be looking for them. As far as I can see the payments were given to anyone that applied that also included foreign citizens who would not normally have the right to a social welfare payment so I think there is a big reckoning coming down the line. Obliviously tax will be due on the 350 and I would think that if you were only earning say 100 a week part time but are now on 350 then the difference will need to be paid back.

Sleeper12

Wanderer78 wrote:

fairly common in the world of neoclassical economics to be honest

You know when a poster is making things up, when asked to provide links their reply: is lads they are widely available online & Im not doing your work for you.