GUI Statement - Mod warning #1

First Up

Golfhead65 wrote:

I also think our timesheets are free enough as the committee sent out a circular to all members about the reopening but also reminding members of the permanent Garda Checkpoint just outside (has been there from day one) as it's on the county border between Dublin/Wicklow and a lot are not chancing it.

I wouldn't advise chancing it on Monday. Gardai will be on high alert and golf clubs and golfers will be high on their list of targets.

Golfhead65

First Up wrote: »

I wouldn't advise chancing it on Monday. Gardai will be on high alert and golf clubs and golfers will be high on their list of targets.

Yeah I'm of the same opinion if you are eligible to go back Monday, wait till Tues (definitely our club) and you will have a peaceful round of golf virtually all to yourself

Wombatman

Well the over 18's restriction is a masterstroke by the GUI anyway. Courses would have been like creches with the kids off school.

pakman

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Pakman, just as you were getting your game in shape..BOOM the Corona virus, hope your good man and we get to play soon in a boards outing..

I've been long enough away from the course to have convinced myself I've it all sorted now anyway. The grass in the back garden doesn't know what hit it. (probably the hosel to be fair)

First Up

Golfhead65 wrote:

Yeah I'm of the same opinion if you are eligible to go back Monday, wait till Tues (definitely our club) and you will have a peaceful round of golf virtually all to yourself

Checkpoints will be there on Tuesday too. I think the relaxation will be very carefully managed and policed. The last thing we need is a 2nd wave.

prawnsambo

Blud wrote: »

You are missing the point, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying that it would appear deliberate.

Garden centres will not check if people are obeying the 5km limit. It will be 20km in a few weeks - restaurants and cafes won't be checking either. Why would golf clubs appoint themselves to intervene?

You seem to be missing the point. Garden centres don't have people's addresses. And can't ask for them. You mention GDPR below and completely ignore the obvious breach you seem to be advocating garden centres and other businesses carry out.

Blud wrote: »

This is a key point here too - they would be appointing themselves to intervene. Nobody has asked them to do so, it is not a condition imposed on golf courses for reopening. Why would they do that?

That's a fair point. But take Tennis Ireland, who have taken a much more proactive role in guiding their clubs on this issue. You could say that they haven't been asked to, but they could reply that they have a duty of care to their members (who may not be fully aware of the law) or that they see this limitation as a means of reducing numbers at their clubs and therefore the possibility of cross-community infection. Either options is valid. We don't complain that clubs or NGBs inform their members of their obligations under child protection laws.

Blud wrote: »

You mention that they hold address information - ypure straying towards dangerous territory here. For what purpose do they retain that info? How do they ensure it is up to date, you know they have obligations there too? GDPR issues could certainly finish a golf course, have you seen the level of fines?

That's a bit of a red herring. Clubs hold member's contact details in order to inform them. Properly run clubs require members to update their info every year when they renew. And those forms should include GDPR consent. Using that info to inform members that they may be breaking the law by attending on Monday would not be a breach of GDPR or data protection law.

However, I wouldn't be comfortable with clubs blocking or removing people from the timesheets. By all means, phone them and tell them that it's not advisable and at their own risk. You are correct, clubs are not the police. Giving them the relevant information would be (imo) where it starts and stops.

blindside88

My own club has come up with a good idea to stop people booking up too many time. You can only book 2 days in advance and you can only play one set of 9 holes per day. This means we have 3
Nine hole courses to choose from so should mean there are a decent number of slots to pick from. This allows 3 groups of 3 players to play every 14 minutes

tropics001

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'd be happy with all out , till all in.

i've heard this proposal a few times now. does this mean waiting until the 20km restriction is lifted, for any guys that are outside that? that would be 20th of July, assuming all goes to plan, possibly even later.
doesn't seem sensible to me to lose out on over 2 months of golf, although i'm not a member anywhere so i don't get to play anyway for the foreseeable.

Dtoffee

First Up wrote: »

I wouldn't advise chancing it on Monday. Gardai will be on high alert and golf clubs and golfers will be high on their list of targets.

It is not just golfers that will be taking to the roads ........ many shops are reopening and there are a lot of DIY'ers out there ready to raid Woodies/B&Q etc and thats before you think about the likes of Ikea https://www.thejournal.ie/ikea-reopening-dublin-covid-19-5098638-May2020/ .


The 5km rule is going to be very difficult to enforce with large numbers on the roads .... even telling people to go back requires safe turning and possible road closures. Then you have the exceptions, people who have permission to travel outside the 5km limit for work ... do you search their car for golf clubs ?


I reckon the Gardai have a huge problem on their hands, do they go full on and stop everyone thus causing tailbacks and stress on the main roads or do they take a limited approach with sporadic checks during the day ? I'm not sure a full on clamp down would be a clever move as the delays will cause havoc for the supply chain and cause public anger. Whoever decided on 5km travel restrictions may need to think again, its just plain stupid in rural areas and pointless in urban areas where everyones 5km intersects and the virus can be relayed by shoppers across the city/town.

FixdePitchmark

First Up wrote: »

Checkpoints will be there on Tuesday too. I think the relaxation will be very carefully managed and policed. The last thing we need is a 2nd wave.

Id say most the brave. "I'm playing no matter what", will collapse in a heap if they see a checkpoint and fines.

Versus keyboard warrior on here

Gdpr a good point on golf clubs acting of 5km.

Just Saying

Blud wrote: »

You are missing the point, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying that it would appear deliberate.

Garden centres will not check if people are obeying the 5km limit. It will be 20km in a few weeks - restaurants and cafes won't be checking either. Why would golf clubs appoint themselves to intervene?

This is a key point here too - they would be appointing themselves to intervene. Nobody has asked them to do so, it is not a condition imposed on golf courses for reopening. Why would they do that?

You mention that they hold address information - ypure straying towards dangerous territory here. For what purpose do they retain that info? How do they ensure it is up to date, you know they have obligations there too? GDPR issues could certainly finish a golf course, have you seen the level of fines?

Members not being able to get on timesheets due to those outside the 5km limit being there is wholly unfair, of course. But that's life, people have personal responsibility for their own actions, it is an issue with individual club members and not the club itself. It definitely, definitely doesn't justify the club acting as the Gardai.

The comparison to speeding is a Ted herring and you are right, it was just used as an example to show that it is mental for a club to have to enforce any law. I'll use a different example - someone has 5 pints after a round and jumps in the car, do you think the golf club should be enforcing the law and stopping them from driving or calling the Gardai?

There is no justification for someone coming from outside 5km to play, I am absolutely not advocating that they do and I myself will not be playing until July earliest as things stand. That's not the point though. The club cannot be asked to enforce the law of the land.

If someone shows up from outside the 5km limit, you're saying the club shouldn't let them play. What do they do next? Call the Gardai on the member and report them? Detain the member until the Gardai arrive? Or is it just, well we stop them from playing so we are all good? It is complete nonsense.

Garden centres are not an appropriate comparison.They are classed as Retail in the Roadmap whereas golf is classified as Sport.

The rationale behind the Phases is clearly outlined in the Roadmap and makes clear that different categories of risk that apply to different sectors.

Raisins

I thought garden centres were like supermarkets...they’re not subject to the 5km radius? The 5km radius applies to exercise. The government decided golf had to come within your exercise radius. That was my understanding.

It’s all academic anyways. People who want to break it will break it and those who don’t will stay at home.

Rikand

kennethrhcp wrote: »

Ya I joined Castlemartyr before Xmas with a few of the lads I play with

hopefully the weather stays nice now!

A friend of a friend works at the course there and sent us a video of it a couple of weeks ago. It looks in unreal shape

ShivasIrons

The local radio has mentioned a club with a full timesheet Monday and the vast majority outside 5k.

This is not going to go down well. It’s not too late for clubs and members to avoid a whole pile of trouble which could easily lead all clubs to be closed for a while longer.

CalamariFritti

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The local radio has mentioned a club with a full timesheet Monday and the vast majority outside 5k.

This is not going to go down well. It’s not too late for clubs and members to avoid a whole pile of trouble which could easily lead all clubs to be closed for a while longer.

Just out curiosity, maybe you already said so, are you in or outside the 5km yourself?

Fann Linn

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The local radio has mentioned a club with a full timesheet Monday and the vast majority outside 5k.

This is not going to go down well. It’s not too late for clubs and members to avoid a whole pile of trouble which could easily lead all clubs to be closed for a while longer.

I wouldn't say so. Heard earlier this morning that pubs will probably reopen earlier than the original August deadline now. I wouldn't worry too much about the whingers on de lavelahn either. Plenty of death around to keep Duffy occupied as it is.

BoldReason

Maybe I expect more of people. But didn't think people would be calling radio stations complaining about lads travelling more than 5km for a round of golf.

Just Saying

Fann Linn wrote: »

I wouldn't say so. Heard earlier this morning that pubs will probably reopen earlier than the original August deadline now. I wouldn't worry too much about the whingers on de lavelahn either. Plenty of death around to keep Duffy occupied as it is.

As a matter of interest form what source did you hear about pubs?

martinkop

Time sheets were always going to be full, that's not news.
Firstly people haven't played in 2 months, and secondly, a normal time sheet of 32 players an hour has been reduced to 12.

How the local radio has access to player details and addresses is definitely a GDPR/privacy question.

thewobbler

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The local radio has mentioned a club with a full timesheet Monday and the vast majority outside 5k.

This is not going to go down well. It’s not too late for clubs and members to avoid a whole pile of trouble which could easily lead all clubs to be closed for a while longer.

Did they also talk about the local unnamed pub which is serving customers, most of whom clearly have Covid19?

pakman

Timesheet for Monday completely full now. Very interested to see what numbers make it with the full compliment of three as i expect plenty are from outside the 5km.

GreeBo

martinkop wrote: »

Time sheets were always going to be full, that's not news.
Firstly people haven't played in 2 months, and secondly, a normal time sheet of 32 players an hour has been reduced to 12.

How the local radio has access to player details and addresses is definitely a GDPR/privacy question.

Timesheets for weekends were always going to be full anyway, I certainly didnt expect 2 courses to be booked out nearly 2 weeks in advance.

GreeBo

BoldReason wrote: »

Maybe I expect more of people. But didn't think people would be calling radio stations complaining about lads travelling more than 5km for a round of golf.

Maybe I expected more of people in that they wouldnt travel more than 5km for a round of golf?

There are two sides to this and only one of them has the law behind them tbf.

Wombatman

11.06 AM, Monday 18th May.
Yoohoo.

Fann Linn

Just Saying wrote: »

As a matter of interest form what source did you hear about pubs?

Caught the tail end of it on either RTE 1 or Newstalk this morning.

Stormyteacup

Raisins wrote: »

I thought garden centres were like supermarkets...they’re not subject to the 5km radius? The 5km radius applies to exercise. The government decided golf had to come within your exercise radius. That was my understanding.

Don't think so - you're still restricted to your 5km radius for non-essential travel (food, medicine, 'essential work'). Golf clubs are not reopening for exercise.

thewobbler wrote: »

Well in your post you discussed two things.

One was that the GUI should have declined a government sanctioned measure to re-open on Monday, with restrictions in place.

I’m wondering why you think any trading business should stay closed when they’ve been approved to open? By way of comparison, Cafes, restaurants and off licences have remained opened throughout the epidemic, with restrictions in place. Why would golf not follow suit, when permitted?

Well it is a bit different, golf clubs are not really 'trading' - however as it's emerged that many clubs are seeing an uptake in new members, it's hard to justify them declining to open with the 5km restriction, even though that was my position originally (though it still sticks in my gut that blow-in Bobby will get to play the course in pristine condition while having my membership money pay for bunkers to be raked for him and holes to be positioned for him, etc.).

ShivasIrons wrote: »

The local radio has mentioned a club with a full timesheet Monday and the vast majority outside 5k.

This is not going to go down well. It’s not too late for clubs and members to avoid a whole pile of trouble which could easily lead all clubs to be closed for a while longer.

Interested to see what happens come Monday - seems to be full timesheets in most places. Can't see them shutting down again though, I'd imagine your good fortune in being 5km from you club will be safe and sound.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Id say most the brave. "I'm playing no matter what", will collapse in a heap if they see a checkpoint and fines.

Versus keyboard warrior on here

Gdpr a good point on golf clubs acting of 5km.

Fines or imprisonment! Although it seems many are fully prepared to take the risk. As for GDPR, I suppose clubs could ring and clarify that you are outside the 5km radius and advise you not to play, but if you're already risking a fine and imprisonment I would imagine it wouldn't be much of a deterrent 'ok thanks, have a nice day'.

BoldReason wrote: »

Maybe I expect more of people. But didn't think people would be calling radio stations complaining about lads travelling more than 5km for a round of golf.

Yes, has been an eyeopener living in the 'valley of the squinting windows', since this began.

But I still believe that the golfers coming from beyond 5km and the over 70s are coming fully briefed on the social distancing guidelines and fully prepared to adhere to them. Think of it as a peaceful protest against a nonsense regulation (when applied to golf).

Carazy

Don't forget 😀

Mantis Toboggan

First Up wrote: »

Depends on location, and if people are respecting the 5k limit. I suspect the Gardai have a fair idea where they should position checkpoints from Monday onward.

Not sure the Gardai will be too interested. We've a chap in our club who's a member of the Garda ERU and lives 15k from the course and is down to play 3 days in the first 7!!

opinionated3

Laughable. Being ignored left right and centre at our club anyway.

mike12

If the Guards want a headline on people breaking the 5KM they will be outside IKEA Monday morning not on a back road around golf clubs maybe picking up one fellow every half hour.
It would be an absolute waste of time for them.

The 3 groups going off every 14 minutes is more of a worry and defeats the reason they pushed the tee times out to 14 minutes.
You will end up with 18 guys in the car park around the same time instead of 6, anyone passing will look in and see a crowd.