GUI Statement - Mod warning #1

Golfgraffix

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. Parallel running with scorecards is the only method of catching all golfers. Or a rule change that changes how scores are certified. Can't see that happening unless it's forced.

The rule has been already waived

Golfgraffix

Scoring in Stroke Play (Rule 3.3b)
In view of concerns around handling and exchanging scorecards (which may be in paper or electronic form as already provided in the Rules), on a temporary basis, Committees may choose to allow methods of scoring in stroke play that do not strictly comply with Rule 3.3b, or do not comply with the normal methods used under Rule 3.3b.

For example:
Players may enter their own hole scores on the scorecard (it is not necessary for a marker to do it).
It is not necessary to have a marker physically certify the player’s hole scores, but some form of verbal certification should take place.
It is not necessary to physically return a scorecard to the Committee provided the Committee can accept the scores in another way.

Brego888

Will public courses be available for some casual golf to those of us who aren't members anywhere?

Rippeditup

Brego888 wrote: »

Will public courses be available for some casual golf to those of us who aren't members anywhere?

Don’t think so only members within 5km

prawnsambo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Scoring in Stroke Play (Rule 3.3b)
In view of concerns around handling and exchanging scorecards (which may be in paper or electronic form as already provided in the Rules), on a temporary basis, Committees may choose to allow methods of scoring in stroke play that do not strictly comply with Rule 3.3b, or do not comply with the normal methods used under Rule 3.3b.

For example:
Players may enter their own hole scores on the scorecard (it is not necessary for a marker to do it).
It is not necessary to have a marker physically certify the player’s hole scores, but some form of verbal certification should take place.
It is not necessary to physically return a scorecard to the Committee provided the Committee can accept the scores in another way.

Yes. I'm talking about qualifying competitions. I haven't seen the rule waived for those. But absolutely open to correction as it was my original question.

Golfgraffix

Stroke play are qualifying comps

prawnsambo

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Stroke play are qualifying comps

But not the only qualifying competition. Like stableford. And surely you can play any form of competition as NQ? Sorry for all the questions, but this doesn't seem definitive to me. CONGU don't mention it.

Down9194

Brego888 wrote: »

Will public courses be available for some casual golf to those of us who aren't members anywhere?

Pay and Play courses with no members are open within the 5km

paulos53

By default the rules as laid down by the R&A cover qualifying comps. It is only when the different rules are applied by clubs that non-qualifying comes into play e.g. Winter Rules


So adjustments to rule 3.3b by the R&A automatically applies to qualifying comps

Golfgraffix

paulos53 wrote: »

By default the rules as laid down by the R&A cover qualifying comps. It is only when the different rules are applied by clubs that non-qualifying comes into play e.g. Winter Rules


So adjustments to rule 3.3b by the R&A automatically applies to qualifying comps

That’s it

prawnsambo

paulos53 wrote: »

By default the rules as laid down by the R&A cover qualifying comps. It is only when the different rules are applied by clubs that non-qualifying comes into play e.g. Winter Rules


So adjustments to rule 3.3b by the R&A automatically applies to qualifying comps

Golfgraffix wrote: »

That’s it

Thanks folks.

I'm going to be wearing one of these for a while.

GreeBo

prawnsambo wrote: »

You quoted the rule above. You certify by signing it. You're just arguing for the sake of it.

I'm not arguing for the sake of it actually.
You don't need to physically sign something to certify it.
Perhaps you've heard of digital signatures?

/edit to see you've already been proven to be incorrect by another poster.:rolleyes:

When can clubs run competitions again. Is it the 8th June or 29th June

Mushy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When can clubs run competitions again. Is it the 8th June or 29th June

Think it said 8th June

First Up

Mushy wrote: »

Think it said 8th June

Closed club competitions for members and guests from June 8th

Closed and open competitions for members, guests and visitors from June 29th

All on the Golfnet website

https://www.golfnet.ie/news/golfnet/4661/unions-publish-protocol-for-golfs-safe-return

Roger_007

First Up wrote: »

Closed club competitions for members and guests from June 8th

Closed and open competitions for members, guests and visitors from June 29th

All on the Golfnet website

https://www.golfnet.ie/news/golfnet/4661/unions-publish-protocol-for-golfs-safe-return

What is the point of having club competitions until all members are eligible to play. Those club members, (or guests for that matter), who live outside the 20km limit cannot play at all until 20th July at the earliest.
There is already questions being asked about some members being able to avail of the club facilities while others are not, yet all are paying the same subscription.
Running club competitions just for the ‘privileged’ ones would just add to the frustration.

Kingswood Rover

Roger_007 wrote: »

What is the point of having club competitions until all members are eligible to play. Those club members, (or guests for that matter), who live outside the 20km limit cannot play at all until 20th July at the earliest.
There is already questions being asked about some members being able to avail of the club facilities while others are not, yet all are paying the same subscription.
Running club competitions just for the ‘privileged’ ones would just add to the frustration.

I am sure that a lot of clubs will look at this inequality and take measures to address, a little imagination would solve a lot of the issues and angst

willabur

In the times today they say that one club in particular is giving vouchers for a fourball as a gesture for those who live outside the restrictioned areas as a way to incentivise them to stay away till restrictions allow them to play

Roger_007

Roger_007 wrote: »

What is the point of having club competitions until all members are eligible to play. Those club members, (or guests for that matter), who live outside the 20km limit cannot play at all until 20th July at the earliest.
There is already questions being asked about some members being able to avail of the club facilities while others are not, yet all are paying the same subscription.
Running club competitions just for the ‘privileged’ ones would just add to the frustration.

I dont see any harm in an ordinary sweep. Many golfers like a bit of competition. Each member pays a fee to enter.

Captains prize would be a different matter. It couldn't really go ahead without all members eligible to play.

ShivasIrons

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Just out curiosity, maybe you already said so, are you in or outside the 5km yourself?

I'm not going to give anymore replies to this thread after this one.


I don't think it's relevant to the discussion whether I or any one else is inside or outside the 5km or 20km limit. There are good reasons for the limit.


However I am inside the 5k limit from my golf club and these are the reasons why I am completely against travel from outside it and have an issue with clubs abdicating their responsibility to police it.


First reason is the virus numbers, about 3 weeks ago, there was around 900 new cases and it was stated the reproduction rate was 0.54 but 95% certainty that it was .8 or lower. With 900 new cases and a reproduction rate of 0.8 it takes around 20 days to get to just 10 new cases or less, with 0.54 it's about 8 days. But this didn't happen, we are at 100 or so new cases today. The unfortunate death figures and case figures don't match up, there is a higher percentage deaths then you'd expect which leads to the hypothesis that we really have twice the amount of confirmed cases but the lockdown and social distancing measures we have at the moment have kept it in check and it's dying away so if we continue the course we're on we'll have only 10 new cases a day pretty shortly.


When that happens with quick testing and good tracing the disease can be isolated and eliminated from here, which should be by mid to the end of June and we can get back to a high degree of normality pretty quickly. We are an island off an island, it's not that easy to get here, sequester airport hotels for a few months and a mandatory 14 day quarantine for inbound travel means the virus won't return.


However golfers feeling it's ok to travel from distance to play golf leads to too much unnecessary movement of people and more interactions between them then is necessary which leads to more difficulty tracing and isolating. You may say there's not that many cases around so it shouldn't be a problem. The answer is how many people brought the virus here in February/March, was it just a few/few dozen or a few hundred? If it was a couple of hundred that lead to 50,000 potential cases, it's likely we have that many or more going around currently not knowing they have it but if we are sensible for the next 2-3-4 weeks these cases will recover and less virus will be around.


Come Monday with many full sheets of 120 golfers or more and 300-400 courses we have 30,000 or so heading to play golf most days next week and judging on some timesheets maybe 10,000 or 15,000 travelling from outside 5k to play, anecdotally some from quite a distance from urban to rural/coastal clubs. This could be going from a virus hotspot to somewhere that never had a case. This is the second wave. Hopefully I'm wrong and it won't be but why not hang tough for a couple more weeks to find out?


The reasons golfers are giving for breaking the law are very weak, eg I have to travel this far for the shop anyway - food is essential, golf isn't, and everyone else is doing it, so I will too and the Irish attitude of 'these laws don't apply to me, just every one else'.


This will lead potentially to a couple of things, one, government will we're going to turn a blind eye to this, leading to the travel restrictions being lifted by then end of the week and a much higher risk of the second wave or the health authorities will go, we need to be to track what happens with just a small easing and we can't with all these people moving so you need to crack down on this movement and golf courses could even be closed but certainly checks outside golf courses.


My second issue is golf and the attitude it portrays that we are the honest sport and we call penalties on ourselves, we don't tolerate cheating and we look down on soccer players diving etc. The reality is that golfers are cheats too, not a big number but more then enough, we all know the cheats, the handicap cheats and the clubs that tolerate the handicap cheats.



Here was an opportunity to show the honesty, to implement a law of the land but the GUI, and the vast majority of clubs have run a mile from it, saying we trust golfers and it's not up to us to police it. It's pretty clear that many golfers couldn't be trusted to keep the law.


Here are the questions that clubs have to answer.


1. What do you do when a golfer inside 5k can't play because the sheet has a significant number outside 5k on it?
2. What do you do if some outside the 5k brings the virus to the club? It's unlikely, but what if?
3. What do you say to the family who has been stuck inside for 8 weeks, has had job loss, exam stress and maybe even the unfortunate loss of a loved one and no funeral to go to that they can't go 15k to the beach/hike but golfers can travel to play golf?
4. Some clubs have restrictions on how many times golfers can play and are policing this, but you won't go a little extra to police where they are coming from? Do you really expect the guards to waste valuable resources to do it when you could take the burden from them?
5. You have been putting up social media posts about supporting frontline workers and the HSE but you're now allowing golfers to break the law and potentially increase the spread?
6. How can your committee members send out a communication to say to stay away but not stay away themselves?
7. Other organisations have told their clubs to turn people away from outside 5k and it's the clubs responsibility to do so, why didn't the GUI do the same?


I hope this doesn't happen but many people are stressed and could be unhappy about others breaking the rules leading to confrontations amongst members. How does a club deal with that?


I thought about contacting my club and passing on my concerns but decided against it, I know what will be said, he's always giving out, who does he think he is? What does he know? He's trying to spoil our fun etc. It's play the man not the ball and ignore the mistakes we've made and make 5 more mistakes to cover up the original one.


I'll head down early next week, play 18 and play a few holes late one evening later in the week, hit the ball, have a laugh and say nothing to anyone.


I hope I'm wrong.

CalamariFritti

Hey Shiva, thanks for replying, all very valid concerns most of which I can sympathise with and understand .
I think time will prove that those concerns - while valid - will not come true. The world is not a black and white place. There's always muddling going on. Its just a human thing. We'll get through it anyway, I'm sure of that. Maybe even because of it.
Enjoy your game man, stay safe.

slingerz

BoldReason wrote: »

We actually had to get rid of the games secretary for that very reason a couple of years ago. He was checking returned scores before heading out for his round. Lol

I see no problem in recorded scores being available. It’s not as if we can turn on scores when we needed

GreeBo

BoldReason wrote: »

We actually had to get rid of the games secretary for that very reason a couple of years ago. He was checking returned scores before heading out for his round. Lol

HandicapMaster has an option to show the leaderboard essentially as the screensaver on the entry comp, so anyone can take a look at see whats in (assuming this is enabled)

I dunno how I feed about it to be honest.

RGS

I see Dublin city council are opening siloge golf course and tolka valley to the public on a pre booking basis from Monday. Surely other non member owned clubs and member owed can now do the same thing. Why should the council owned course be allowed green fee revenue when other clubs/courses are not allowed.
This makes a total mockery of the guidelines issued by the GUI.

Kingswood Rover

RGS wrote: »

I see Dublin city council are opening siloge golf course and tolka valley to the public on a pre booking basis from Monday. Surely other non member owned clubs and member owed can now do the same thing. Why should the council owned course be allowed green fee revenue when other clubs/courses are not allowed.
This makes a total mockery of the guidelines issued by the GUI.

Are u sure had a quick look at their website and any date after the 18th i put in said was unavailable for booking.

RGS

It was reported on the journal and it's also on the city council Twitter feed.
Apologises I cant attach the links.

Break80

I think this will fracture the club atmosphere
for years to come reading the posts on this and another thread.
I have stated my views that this restriction was flawed but i received emails from my club to respect the law which I will do. I don't care what other members will do.
My problem is myself and other posters were told in black and white terms why our views were wrong and thats that.
I hope those same black and white opinions will be expressed to committees Monday morning if it's seen thier clubs are facilitating law breakers by allowing them to play.

RGS

It's not a club committees job to police the laws of the land. That's the sole responsibility of an garda siochana.
Going forward should the secretary inform members to pay their motor tax, ensure their car is ncted.
Advise them to obey the speed limits, drink driving laws etc.
That would only open a whole can of worms.

the.red.baron

Timesheets are chocabloc everywhere

No amount of bickering online will change that

tayto lover

Loads of lads from outside the 5K on the BRS at my club.
Very disappointed in them.