Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

Ah I get it. We just shoot everyone who gets to 82. A bit like Logans Run. Grand so. Sounds legit.

And no it's not your favourite bugbear 'Tony". Go take at other countries if you are in doubt

It's not a lockdown btw - they are restictions which are inline to be rolled back

If you are bored perhaps go lay with some lego or whatever.

The aggression this morning...

You do realise that the aggressive person is usually not in control at all?

Can you please let me let us all know why you think we should leave our restrictions as they are until 10th of August? If you are fearful of 2nd wave can you please let us know why is there no 2nd wave in Denmark, Czech republic, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland?

We are getting to a stage now where countries have opened their non essential shops, kindergartens, primary schools for over a MONTH. Yet there is no death and destruction in those countries..?

Lets keep the thread relevant to lifting restrictions and not speculate when people die. Life expectancy is there to guide you in case you have doubts.

uli84

My friend in Poland is going back to the office work on Monday, shops are already opened, Hotels, restaurants, pubs etc are opening from the 18th of May (only outdoor sitting for now), basically everything will be pretty much opened in 1-2 weeks with some REASONABLE safety measures taken of course.

3 months ahead of Ireland (!!) and no, their lockdown wasn’t more strict than Irish one, I don’t think that nonsense 2/5 km ever been in place there as she was travelling 100km to her sister’s house at Easter.

bloodless_coup

robbiezero wrote: »

Nobody is going to force you to go near anyone. You can social distance until 2050 if you like.

I can't understand why we can't have a scenario where people who want to isolate themselves are allowed to and the rest of us are allowed to get on with life.

We could even subsidise those who choose to isolate if the majority were back at work to drive the economy, generating the required surplus.

niallo27

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Im not discrediting the Irish public. But I think people staying at home will not prevent something that kills people in nursing homes.
The point Im making is if it happened from the beginning again, if it gets into nursing home's the figures will look the same, restrictions outside or not

Hang on, maybe we both want the same thing

Ginger n Lemon

uli84 wrote: »

My friend in Poland is going back to the office work on Monday, shops are already opened, Hotels, restaurants, pubs etc are opening from the 18th of May (only outdoor sitting for now), basically everything will be pretty much opened in 1-2 weeks with some REASONABLE safety measures taken of course.

As a good friend of mine in this thread posted once

"The mind boggles"

It really does boggle. How can their scientific/medical experts be so sure to open up everything so quickly? As opposed to ours?

Jimmy Garlic

coastwatch wrote: »

Every additional day of restrictions is having negative effect on peoples wellbeing and on the economy.
With the consistent improvement in the numbers (new cases, hospital admissions, ICU beds) is there are case to be made to bring in Phase 1 re-opening a few days earlier, to Friday 15th May, and include some phase 2 elements, such as street level retail shops, libraries and increasing the distance limit to 20km?

The knock on effects of this lockdown will kill more than the virus in this country. I have absolutely no doubt about it. Young and healthy people, not people who were at deaths door anyway. Dr spins government have effectively decimated the economy by playing copycat to please their globalist masters. The fallout is going to be huge.

uli84

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

As a good friend of mine in this thread posted once

"The mind boggles"

It really does boggle. How can their scientific/medical experts be so sure to open up everything so quickly? As opposed to ours?

They must be crazy, right? My only guess is they maybe cannot afford keeping the economy closed for months to come Not every country is as rich as ireland or maybe benefits outweighed the risks I wonder. Such simple principle some still don’t get

Ginger n Lemon

Belgium's plan to lift restrictions has 1 WEEK between phases. 1st phase started 4th of May, 95% of restrictions lifted by 8th of June.


https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-lifts-its-lockdown-what-is-allowed-and-when/


Their death rate per 1 million is 776 people. Ours is 290. The contrast is just too much? 1 week between phases... 3 times more deaths than Ireland. Open up 3 times quicker......

With all the respect for Tony H & Co our restrictions do not make any sense. Its obvious that Belgium are even worse affected by Covid than Ireland.

gozunda

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

The aggression this morning... You do realise that the aggressive person is usually not in control at all? Can you please let me let us all know why you think we should leave our restrictions as they are until 10th of August? If you are fearful of 2nd wave can you please let us know why is there no 2nd wave in Denmark, Czech republic, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland?
We are getting to a stage now where countries have opened their non essential shops, kindergartens, primary schools for over a MONTH. Yet there is no death and destruction in those countries..? Lets keep the thread relevant to lifting restrictions and not speculate when people die. Life expectancy is there to guide you in case you have doubts.

Your comments are hilarious. I think maybe you are projecting again. If you think facts being pointed out are aggressive lol

God bless your tiny toes.

I'll answer that with a question. Can you please let me let us all know why you believe you are qualified to think we should not leave our restrictions as they are until 10th of August?

And thats ignoring the fact that things could be rolled back even quicker if everyone does their part and keeps the rate of infection down

That most countries are only at the very start of rolling back their restrictions- much like Ireland

That the number of young people getting infected and potentially spreading it to others also sees a drop.

That we keep observing our restrictions so that our health services dont become overrun and keep the rate of infection down.

Btw I didnt mention any second wave - but many medical experts do believe it is a very real possibility. I will take their expertise on that if you dont mind.

You know logic like ...

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

Your comments are hilarious. I think maybe you are projecting again. If you think facts being pointed out are aggressive lol

God bless your tiny toes.

I'll answer that with a question. Can you please let me let us all know why you believe you are qualified to think we should not leave our restrictions as they are until 10th of August?

And thats ignoring the fact that things could be rolled back even quicker if everyone does their part and keeps the rate of infection down

That most countries are only at the very start of rolling back their restrictions- much like Ireland

That the number of young people getting infected and potentially spreading it to others also sees a drop.

That we keep observing our restrictions so that our health services dont become overrun and keep the rate of infection down.

Btw I didnt mention any second wave - but many medical experts do believe it is a very real possibility. I will take their expertise on that if you dont mind.

You know logic like ...

You dont even want to answer 1 question, lazy.

I wont speak to you further, you clearly have no answers for any of below:

Can you please let me let us all know why you think we should leave our restrictions as they are until 10th of August? If you are fearful of 2nd wave can you please let us know why is there no 2nd wave in Denmark, Czech republic, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland?

We are getting to a stage now where countries have opened their non essential shops, kindergartens, primary schools for over a MONTH. Yet there is no death and destruction in those countries, why is that?

niallo27

gozunda wrote: »

Your comments are hilarious. I think maybe you are projecting again. If you think facts being pointed out are aggressive lol

God bless your tiny toes.

I'll answer that with a question. Can you please let me let us all know why you believe you are qualified to think we should not leave our restrictions as they are until 10th of August?

And thats ignoring the fact that things could be rolled back even quicker if everyone does their part and keeps the rate of infection down

That most countries are only at the very start of rolling back their restrictions- much like Ireland

That the number of young people getting infected and potentially spreading it to others also sees a drop.

That we keep observing our restrictions so that our health services dont become overrun and keep the rate of infection down.

Btw I didnt mention any second wave - but many medical experts do believe it is a very real possibility. I will take their expertise on that if you dont mind.

You know logic like ...

What's your opinion on other European countries who have been hit a lot worse than us or a lot less than us opening up months before us. Why do you believe our government is more qualified to make these decisions than the rest of europe. We have every right to question the length of the restrictions.

Cork Boy 53

uli84 wrote: »

My friend in Poland is going back to the office work on Monday, shops are already opened, Hotels, restaurants, pubs etc are opening from the 18th of May (only outdoor sitting for now), basically everything will be pretty much opened in 1-2 weeks with some REASONABLE safety measures taken of course.

3 months ahead of Ireland (!!) and no, their lockdown wasn’t more strict than Irish one, I don’t think that nonsense 2/5 km ever been in place there as she was travelling 100km to her sister’s house at Easter.

What do you consider as reasonable safety measures?

normanoffside

https://www.thejournal.ie/cso-coronavirus-life-satisfaction-5094690-May2020/

CSO wrote:

THE NUMBER OF people who report a high satisfaction with life has dropped significantly during the current Covid-19 pandemic, according to figures published by the Central Statistics Office (CSO).

Some 12.2% of the 1,362 people surveyed rated their overall life satisfaction as high compared to 44% of people during the same survey in 2018.

Meanwhile, just over four in ten – or 42.4% – of respondents rated their satisfaction with personal relationships as high in April 2020, falling from approximately six in 10 in both 2013 and 2018.

Over a quarter – or 26.6% – of respondents reported feeling lonely at least some of the time, up from 16.9% in 2018, while over one in five – or 20.6% – of respondents aged 70 and over were very concerned about household stress from confinement.

How many more surveys like this do we need to see before realising that the lockdown is causing more damage than the disease?

Penfailed

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Have you seen Leo Varadkar make a decision in the last 8 weeks ? I haven’t.

Really? So the schools decided to shut down themselves? Did all the pubs decide to close all by themselves a few days later? Did the timetable for reopening the country just happen to be announced to the public by magic? They are all decisions that he made.

castletownman

This whole furore smacks of the "good old Catholic Ireland" mantra that held us back for decades.

Think of the poor ould crathurs. Nevermind the systemic economic and health implications down the line. 84 year old Betty is more important than the 20-40 year old work-force.

And are people really surprised that nursing homes seem to be affected particularly badly? Remember a couple of years ago there was a public outcry about the health and safety standards in some of them?

gozunda

uli84 wrote: »

My friend in Poland is going back to the office work on Monday, shops are already opened, Hotels, restaurants, pubs etc are opening from the 18th of May (only outdoor sitting for now), basically everything will be pretty much opened in 1-2 weeks with some REASONABLE safety measures taken of course.

3 months ahead of Ireland (!!) and no, their lockdown wasn’t more strict than Irish one, I don’t think that nonsense 2/5 km ever been in place there as she was travelling 100km to her sister’s house at Easter.

What? That's rubbish. They shut down their borders ffs

The Polish Ministry of Health even tried to prevent medical personnel from commenting on the pandemic.

All international air and rail travel to and from Poland was suspended. Poland's borders were closed to foreigners with very limited exceptions. All persons entering Poland from abroad had to undergo a compulsory 14-day home quarantine. Internal travel was limited forbidding non-essential travel. The army were mandated to help police to keep people off the streets if they had no good reason to be outside, 

See: https://www.gov.pl/web/coronavirus/travel



Hows the fek does any of that make them "3 months ahead of Ireland!"? Polish people had 8 weeks of stay at home restictions. We're only at week 6.

...

facehugger99

Penfailed wrote: »

Really? So the schools decided to shut down themselves? Did all the pubs decide to close all by themselves a few days later? Did the timetable for reopening the country just happen to be announced to the public by magic? They are all decisions that he made.

Rubber stamping what some medical bureaucrat tells him to do is not decision making - it's the opposite.

stephenjmcd

Penfailed wrote: »

Really? So the schools decided to shut down themselves? Did all the pubs decide to close all by themselves a few days later? Did the timetable for reopening the country just happen to be announced to the public by magic? They are all decisions that he made.

Look I've supported Varadkar and FG the past few years. But he didn't make any of those decisions. He was in Washington when NHPET said close the schools, the reopening plan is also a framework complied by NPHET, the CMO has said this in recent days. These are both things that were decided externally, he just announced them and cabinet approved them so there was no decision making process needed by government on any of those measures. They were told what to do.

Pubs went to government and many took their own decision to close, then come the sunday evening they were advised to close. Leo didn't tell them to close nor make the decision

is_that_so

normanoffside wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/cso-coronavirus-life-satisfaction-5094690-May2020/



How many more surveys like this do we need to see before realising that the lockdown is causing more damage than the disease?

That was from April and a fully understandable response with no obvious end in sight. Now there is a plan with dates, hotly contested maybe, but dates nonetheless and some very small tweaks. That brings hope and plans for a return to some form of reality.

gozunda

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You dont even want to answer 1 question, lazy.

I wont speak to you further, you clearly have no answers for any of below:

Can you please let me let us all know why you think we should leave our restrictions as they are until 10th of August? If you are fearful of 2nd wave can you please let us know why is there no 2nd wave in Denmark, Czech republic, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland?

We are getting to a stage now where countries have opened their non essential shops, kindergartens, primary schools for over a MONTH. Yet there is no death and destruction in those countries, why is that?

Oh but I did you just didnt read any of it obviousley ...

I'll answer that (first) with a question. Can you please let me let us all know why you believe you are qualified to think we should not leave our restrictions as they are until 10th of August? (To the rest)

And thats ignoring the fact that things could be rolled back even quicker if everyone does their part and keeps the rate of infection down

That most countries are only at the very start of rolling back their restrictions- much like Ireland

That the number of young people getting infected and potentially spreading it to others also sees a drop.

That we keep observing our restrictions so that our health services dont become overrun and keep the rate of infection down.

Btw I didnt mention any second wave - but many medical experts do believe it is a very real possibility. I will take their expertise on that if you dont mind.

You know logic like ...

That's why. Simples.

Now you need to answer mine .

FintanMcluskey

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Didn't get to see much yesterday. What decision do you mean?

For some bizzare reason I can't mention what happened yesterday as I have already been warned for mentioning it.

But essentially something was cancelled months in advance that involved people that are in no way at risk from this.
From that restrictive approach, my advice is prepare for the restrictions as is to continue for months on end.
What will happen in August when the public sector wages can't be paid Im unsure, but I imagine Tony will be in no humor to answer questions by then

Kermit.de.frog

castletownman wrote: »

Think of the poor ould crathurs. Nevermind the systemic economic and health implications down the line. 84 year old Betty is more important than the 20-40 year old work-force.

'I'm alright Jack'

The problem with that really horrible attitude you have is that one day you may be of that vintage and what goes around can come around.

Is that the society you want? Is that how you would like people thinking of you (a disposable inconvenience) in your final years?

There has been an eye opening level of selfishness and pure ignorance on display throughout this thread particularly toward vulnerable groups.

They are the very people that need our protection and care at this time.

You should be ashamed of that attitude.

FintanMcluskey

Charles Babbage wrote: »

All sick political philosophies start with some other group of people being expendable.

Your are fully correct.
It can never be the dying or ill though, its silly to suggest that.
In this case its the youth, the rest of their lives has been sacrificed in the name of suck it up, people are dying

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

'I'm alright Jack'

The problem with that really horrible attitude you have is that one day you may be of that vintage and what goes around can come around.

Is that the society you want? Is that how you would like people thinking of you (a disposable inconvenience) in your final years?

There has been an eye opening level of selfishness and pure ignorance on display throughout this thread particularly toward vulnerable groups.

They are the very people that need our protection and care at this time.

You should be ashamed of that attitude.

No he shouldn't be ashamed of that attitude.

In my final months I dont selfishly expect the world to stop to buy me a few weeks in a home somewhere

Ger Roe

Penfailed wrote: »

Really? So the schools decided to shut down themselves? Did all the pubs decide to close all by themselves a few days later? Did the timetable for reopening the country just happen to be announced to the public by magic? They are all decisions that he made.

With regard to the pubs ... they did decide to close all by themselves.

Following the Temple Bar 'Sweet Caroline' fiasco on the infamous Saturday night, the Vintners themselves decided that they could not observe the government guidelines and they said so on the RTE Radio 1 news at one, the next day (Sunday). Minutes before the vintners spokesperson announced that they were pulling their own plug, Paschal O Donoghue was interviewed first and he was saying that the gov was going to meet with them later that afternoon to see how they could be kept operational under the guidelines.

The pubs was certainly an example of getting it so badly wrong that the pubs themselves made the decision to close. The schools were also starting to close 'by themselves' and in fact the Dept of Ed sent out a latter the previous afternoon telling them not to, only to have the closure instruction then issued the next morning. Some schools hadn't even had the chance to read the letter telling them to stay open, before they got the call to close.

Cork Boy 53

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

'I'm alright Jack'

The problem with that really horrible attitude you have is that one day you may be of that vintage and what goes around can come around.

Is that the society you want? Is that how you would like people thinking of you (a disposable inconvenience) in your final years?

There has been an eye opening level of selfishness and pure ignorance on display throughout this thread particularly toward vulnerable groups.

They are the very people that need our protection and care at this time.

You should be ashamed of that attitude.

The most despicable comment I read was the one where a poster described the old and those with serious illnesses as being "well beyond their economic use". Sadly an attitude that many posters here seem to agree with.

normanoffside

is_that_so wrote: »

That was from April and a fully understandable response with no obvious end in sight. Now there is a plan with dates, hotly contested maybe, but dates nonetheless and some very small tweaks. That brings hope and plans for a return to some form of reality.

Actually I would have been more optimistic of a return to some form of normality in April than after this farce of a 'plan'. I am, pretty sure that in Early April, a lot more people were in favour of restriction measures than are now.

Having Taoiseach 'Chicken little' Tony telling us daily that we need to keep it up or risk an extension of restrictions really does not help.

normanoffside

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

The most despicable comment I read was the one where a poster described the old and those with serious illnesses as being "well beyond their economic use". Sadly an attitude that many posters here seem to agree with.

The most despicable thing I have seen on this thread is your refusal to comment of give sympathy to people having urgent surgeries or cancer treatments cancelled.

Rodin

normanoffside wrote: »

The most despicable thing I have seen on this thread is your refusal to comment of give sympathy to people having urgent surgeries or cancer treatments cancelled.

Cancer patients should have been looked after.

Cork Boy 53

normanoffside wrote: »

The most despicable thing I have seen on this thread is your refusal to comment of give sympathy to people having urgent surgeries or cancer treatments cancelled.

What nonsense are you spouting now? When have I ever stated that I don`t have sympathy for people in those situations? Stop making up ****e.